India does not retaliate against Pak due to nukes: US expert

[SQ8]

One hopes, that is not how your decision makers think. Though I won't hold my breath.

How about a single high ranking source (US or Pakistani) that would substantiate this fantastic claim?

It would be kind of difficult to get a word of mouth within a drawing room from a source that sits on the NSC to act as a source on a online defense forum where the hottest topic was Pakistani fashion models for a while.

 

[Vinod2070]

It would be kind of difficult to get a word of mouth within a drawing room from a source that sits on the NSC to act as a source on a online defense forum where the hottest topic was Pakistani fashion models for a while.

Delusions can (and did) go that high.

After all, Pakistan was convinced that China (and US) will come running to save it in 1971.

Or even during Kargil that Hindus can't fight back as per the dirty four who supposedly planned it all.

Even after the drubbing they received from the same Hindu army and the surrender of 93000!

We have enough memoirs from US interlocutors in senior positions at the time, about the happenings during that period.

Remember the threat to make a horrible example of Pakistan? That was on record.

 

[SQ8]

Delusions can (and did) go that high.

After all, Pakistan was convinced that China (and US) will come running to save it in 1971.

Or even during Kargil that Hindus can't fight back as per the dirty four who supposedly planned it all.

Even after the drubbing they received from the same Hindu army and the surrender of 93000!

We have enough memoirs from US interlocutors in senior positions at the time, about the happenings during that period.

Remember the threat to make a horrible example of Pakistan? That was on record.

You are trying to mix your oranges and apples to make your point. If you wish to appease yourself(and your countrymen) by it then so be it.
I have only repeated what I heard from people I know NOT to be delusional or prone to making tall claims(A rarity I must admit in the organization that the person works in).

 

[Vinod2070]

You are trying to mix your oranges and apples to make your point. If you wish to appease yourself(and your countrymen) by it then so be it.
I have only repeated what I heard from people I know NOT to be delusional or prone to making tall claims(A rarity I must admit in the organization that the person works in).

Not really.

I don't doubt that you are saying what you have heard.

I doubt that the person knew what he was saying.

Kissinger waited for a while, and said in a cultured tone, “Basically I have come not to advise, but to warn you. USA has numerous reservations about Pakistan’s atomic programme; therefore you have no way out, except agreeing to what I say”. Bhutto smiled and asked, “suppose I refuse, then what?” Henry Kissinger became dead serious.

He locked his eyes on Bhutto’s and spewed out deliberately, “Then we will make a horrible example of you!” Bhutto’s face flushed. He stood up, extended his hand towards Kissinger and said, “Pakistan can live without the US President. Now your people will have to find some other ally in this region.” Bhutto then turned and went out.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...-rejected-kissinger-s-warning-over-nukes.html

Now, things as serious as this (handing over nukes) can't be about some backroom assurance and "wink wink nudge nudge". I hope even you can agree with that.

Where is the official treaty (even with secret protocols) that would make the US hand you nukes (through China)?

 

[Amolthebest]

The country which can understand us best is South Korea. They too have irresponsible, unstable, and not so democratic nuclear nation as their neighbor

 

[SQ8]

I doubt that the person knew what he was saying.
Where is the official treaty (even with secret protocols) that would make the US hand you nukes (through China)?

You have to understand..

Policies with Kissengers government were different when compared to the policies of the latter.
The attitude the US had with Bhutto(and vice versa) was different to what was with Zia.
Let me give you an example..

Pakistan wanted F-16s.. the US refused and offered F-5G(F-20) instead..(1982-83)
The PAF said NO.. we want the F-16..
the US said okay... you will have them by 86..
The PAF said NO.. we want them by the end of the year(83).. and they arrived WITH NO downgrade or anything of that sort.
Infact.. the PAF examples had a little more in them than the standard fit on block-15's.

The Nukes werent going to be handed over as such.. nor were they going to be US nukes.. but were to be given UNDER the circumstance that the Muj were defeated Along with an Indian aggressive response under the upper hand of nuclear weapons.
It was NOT a India-Pakistan fight the US envisioned this scenario as but rather a US vs USSR scenario with each side supporting their respective allies.

80-86 was also the time that the cold-war tensions were high.. Reagan was hawkish against the USSR("evil empire").

The country which can understand us best is South Korea. They too have irresponsible, unstable, and not so democratic nuclear nation as their neighbor

Uhh.. I know you don't hold us in high regard which is a national curse.. but please.. if it is even slightly possible for your ego to condescend a little low... compare our nuclear capability, military organization or general culture to NK.

 

[MilSpec]

OOh, classic warmongering d thread.... No analysis no dialogue...Indian side going ooh w did this to y in 1971 and Pakistanis goin we will nuke each and every city you have... 2nd most populous country against 7th most populous country envisaging fighting till the last man, woman and last kid....

Few questions, For the Indian side: Why would there be any conventional retaliation for asymmetric warfare? Why would India which after 45 years of dire poverty is finally seeing some progress in some areas of the society, would risk it all by going all out against pakistan??

Question for Pakistanis: What would be Indian response to a single nuke being fired on india, forget dreaming of 100 nukes?? Why would your army give up the country it runs (the only army in the world which does so) by inviting India for a war? How many of you think by militancy you will vou be able to secure kashmir?

 

[Amolthebest]

You have to understand..

Policies with Kissengers government were different when compared to the policies of the latter.
The attitude the US had with Bhutto(and vice versa) was different to what was with Zia.
Let me give you an example..

Pakistan wanted F-16s.. the US refused and offered F-5G(F-20) instead..(1982-83)
The PAF said NO.. we want the F-16..
the US said okay... you will have them by 86..
The PAF said NO.. we want them by the end of the year(83).. and they arrived WITH NO downgrade or anything of that sort.
Infact.. the PAF examples had a little more in them than the standard fit on block-15's.

The Nukes werent going to be handed over as such.. nor were they going to be US nukes.. but were to be given UNDER the circumstance that the Muj were defeated Along with an Indian aggressive response under the upper hand of nuclear weapons.
It was NOT a India-Pakistan fight the US envisioned this scenario as but rather a US vs USSR scenario with each side supporting their respective allies.

80-86 was also the time that the cold-war tensions were high.. Reagan was hawkish against the USSR("evil empire").



Uhh.. I know you don't hold us in high regard which is a national curse.. but please.. if it is even slightly possible for your ego to condescend a little low... compare our nuclear capability, military organization or general culture to NK.

Enlighten us about that

 

[SQ8]

Enlighten us about that

I dont have time to spoon feed stupid queries like "then what".
Be bloody specific instead of being a smart ***.

 

[Vinod2070]

You have to understand..

Policies with Kissengers government were different when compared to the policies of the latter.
The attitude the US had with Bhutto(and vice versa) was different to what was with Zia.
Let me give you an example..

Pakistan wanted F-16s.. the US refused and offered F-5G(F-20) instead..(1982-83)
The PAF said NO.. we want the F-16..
the US said okay... you will have them by 86..
The PAF said NO.. we want them by the end of the year(83).. and they arrived WITH NO downgrade or anything of that sort.
Infact.. the PAF examples had a little more in them than the standard fit on block-15's.

The Nukes werent going to be handed over as such.. nor were they going to be US nukes.. but were to be given UNDER the circumstance that the Muj were defeated Along with an Indian aggressive response under the upper hand of nuclear weapons.
It was NOT a India-Pakistan fight the US envisioned this scenario as but rather a US vs USSR scenario with each side supporting their respective allies.

80-86 was also the time that the cold-war tensions were high.. Reagan was hawkish against the USSR("evil empire").

The bolded part is a bit different from what you mentioned earlier.

Had India really pushed for nukes.. the US would have given us a few as well(thru the Chinese).
We were the Israel for South Asia at the time.

If they were not to be US nukes, whose nukes would it be?

Please do understand that such fantastic claims can't be just accepted on face value based on someone supposedly claiming something in some meeting.

If it was really believed by the NSC, I have no words to say.

 

[Amolthebest]

I dont have time to spoon feed stupid queries like "then what".
Be bloody specific instead of being a smart ***.

Can't blame you. YOu have nothing to say here

 

[SQ8]

The bolded part is a bit different from what you mentioned earlier.



If they were not to be US nukes, whose nukes would it be?

Please do understand that such fantastic claims can't be just accepted on face value based on someone supposedly claiming something in some meeting.

If it was really believed by the NSC, I have no words to say.

I have never asked you to accept fantastic claims. I can because I was there.
YOU cannot convince me otherwise.. but as I have no need to convince you I see no point further.

And the part is not different at all.
This is what I wrote.. I pray.. where is it different.

the US would have given us a few as well(thru the Chinese).

If you construed it to be US nukes then it is your misunderstanding and not mine since I MENTIONED the Chinese there FOR this very specific reason.

Can't blame you. YOu have nothing to say here

Great comeback.. took all of your two brain cells did it?

 

[Vinod2070]

I have never asked you to accept fantastic claims. I can because I was there.
YOU cannot convince me otherwise.. but as I have no need to convince you I see no point further.

And the part is not different at all.
This is what I wrote.. I pray.. where is it different.

the US would have given us a few as well(thru the Chinese).

If you construed it to be US nukes then it is your misunderstanding and not mine since I MENTIONED the Chinese there FOR this very specific reason.

Its not about "convincing me". Its about backing up your claim. At least making it seem plausible.

So US would have given you Chinese nukes?

Pakistan was no Israel at any point. It was always some Pakistani generals doing the US bidding in exchange for US military good and a lot of money lining their pockets.

It has not changed when the US needed you again for another Afghan campaign.

Anyway, it seems we have said what we had to say.

 

[Amolthebest]

I have never asked you to accept fantastic claims. I can because I was there.
YOU cannot convince me otherwise.. but as I have no need to convince you I see no point further.

And the part is not different at all.
This is what I wrote.. I pray.. where is it different.

the US would have given us a few as well(thru the Chinese).

If you construed it to be US nukes then it is your misunderstanding and not mine since I MENTIONED the Chinese there FOR this very specific reason.



Great comeback.. took all of your two brain cells did it?

Don't know about two brain cells but you must be happy with your non existent brain. No brain no problems. congrats

 

[SQ8]

Its not about "convincing me". Its about backing up your claim. At least making it seem plausible.
.

Let me ask you something.
If you went to this guys place .. had tea and coffee.. and while discussing the topic of Kargil he tells you that the IA had some chem weapons ready.. How would you back it up?
V. K. Saraswat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't know about two brain cells but you must be happy with your non existent brain. No brain no problems. congrats