India does not retaliate against Pak due to nukes: US expert

[Cyberian]

@Oscar, thanks for the clip. I think I've seen that movie. Never thought much of it to be honest.

It also mentions Bangladesh in that movie. What's all that about?

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar; where did you pull out that under-lined bit from?

A few books and articles.. here is one.
The Untold Story: How US came to India's aid in 1962 - Rediff.com India News

It was one period in the history of otherwise difficult India-US relations; when the Indians regarded the US as their friend. The prompt and generous American response to Indian needs at the time of military reverses against the Chinese in October/November 1962, had a deep impact on the Indian psyche.

President Kennedy was preoccupied in dealing with the Cuban crisis and he left it to then US ambassador Professor John Kenneth Galbraith to handle the situation, supporting him to the hilt.

When the Indian situation became particularly desperate, US Air Force [ Images ] squadrons in the Philippines were alerted; through its contacts in Warsaw, the US conveyed its resolve to the Chinese to come to India's assistance.

C-130 Hercules aircraft carried out drops of arms and ammunition supplies as well as essential clothing to Indian soldiers on the battlefront.

Indian national morale had hit rock bottom on November 18, 1962 when news of further reverses reached New Delhi [ Images ]. The Indians felt isolated, vulnerable and betrayed, when even the 'friends' of India took ambivalent positions.

On October 25, 1962, when war with the United States was potentially imminent, the Soviet newspaper Pravda published a front-page article that put the entire blame for the 1962 war with China on India.

The article called the McMahon line, which New Delhi accepted, 'notorious', 'the result of British imperialism', and legally invalid.

Pravda also accused India of being incited by imperialists and being the main ringleaders of the conflict. The Soviet Union's hostile attitude contrasted with President Kennedy's generous help to India in its hour of need. This made a deep impression on the Indians.

Professor Galbraith, speaking to me in 2003, recalled the sea change that had occurred in Indian attitude towards the Americans. American aircraft regularly landed in Delhi and carried out photo missions over the Indo-Tibet border.

These aerial photographs were of great value since India had no maps of the areas of conflict. Then US assistant secretary of state Roger Hilsman, himself a veteran of the Burma campaign in World War II, personally coordinated the aid effort.

 

[Cyberian]

Not really.

I don't doubt that you are saying what you have heard.

I doubt that the person knew what he was saying.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...-rejected-kissinger-s-warning-over-nukes.html

Now, things as serious as this (handing over nukes) can't be about some backroom assurance and "wink wink nudge nudge". I hope even you can agree with that.

Where is the official treaty (even with secret protocols) that would make the US hand you nukes (through China)?

@Vinod2070, Check this out. US also dedicated their Space Shuttle Columbia to Afghanistan in 1982. Must've been some desperate love.

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar, thanks for the clip. I think I've seen that movie. Never thought much of it to be honest.

It also mentions Bangladesh in that movie. What's all that about?

As with some hollywood flicks.. they consult with certain think-tanks and experts to help them in crafting the story. These gentlemen then provide them certain ideas which are hot in discussion and might be plausible enough to pass off for the real deal.
Novel writers like Tom Clancy also use such research sources along with script writers.

The Scenario's shown here are nothing more than team ups of military strategy terms with names of countries that were deemed hotspots. However, the Indian-Pakistan scenario is listed in its earlier scenes. After all, they could only come up with certain actual ideas.. some winging it is needed

WarGames - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Genius began its transformation into WarGames when Parkes and Lasker met Peter Schwartz from the Stanford Research Institute. "There was a new subculture of extremely bright kids developing into what would become known as hackers," said Schwartz. Schwartz made the connection between youth, computers, gaming, and the military. Parkes and Lasker came up with several different military-themed plotlines prior to the final story.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

A few books and articles.. here is one.
The Untold Story: How US came to India's aid in 1962 - Rediff.com India News

Where is the "Turkish Connection"? I've read about the conflict too and I know the writer of the Official History of the Conflict as well as some of the people who actually participated. Where did the Turks come from?

 

[Cyberian]

Where is the "Turkish Connection"? I've read about the conflict too and I know the writer of the Official History of the Conflict as well as some of the people who actually participated. Where did the Turks come from?

If Indians can believe receiving help from Pakistan during the 1962 war, Turkey should not be a problem.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...istan-helped-india-during-1962-war-china.html

 

[Capt.Popeye]

If Indians can believe receiving help from Pakistan during the 1962 war, Turkey should not be a problem.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...istan-helped-india-during-1962-war-china.html

Yeah, I know about what Ayub Khan proposed then. But that has nothing to do with the Turks. Ayub had many connections with India going back to his Indian Army Days. All the Gen. Staff officers on both sides had it just as it was the case with the respective Air Forces; just as S.M. Ahsan and H.M.S. Chaudhary had friends and course-mates in the IN.

 

[SQ8]

Where is the "Turkish Connection"? I've read about the conflict too and I know the writer of the Official History of the Conflict as well as some of the people who actually participated. Where did the Turks come from?

The Turks came from certain books by Pakistani Authors.
One is ACdre Sajjad Ahmed's "Flight of the Falcon" the other is "The Gold Bird".. By ACdre Mansoor Shah.
They both mention equipment from Turkey being taken and delivered to India.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The Turks came from certain books by Pakistani Authors.
One is ACdre Sajjad Ahmed's "Flight of the Falcon" the other is "The Gold Bird".. By ACdre Mansoor Shah.
They both mention equipment from Turkey being taken and delivered to India.

What Equipment specifically came from the Turks? And even more specifically which "Turkish Mountain Divisions" came to join the Indian Army?

 

[SQ8]

What Equipment specifically came from the Turks? And even more specifically which "Turkish Mountain Divisions" came to join the Indian Army?

Let me rephrase that. Equipment from Turkish Mountain divisions was taken to India.
Both mention "Equipment for Mountain warfare"which was taken from Turkey(Given to them previously?? Caucus??) was given to India.

I have no idea as there are no further details since these are both autobiographies.
The Gentlemen's stature does have weight since neither of them are generally prone to exaggeration nor twists.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Let me rephrase that. Equipment from Turkish Mountain divisions was taken to India.
Both mention "Equipment for Mountain warfare"which was taken from Turkey(Given to them previously?? Caucus??) was given to India.

I have no idea as there are no further details since these are both autobiographies.
The Gentlemen's stature does have weight since neither of them are generally prone to exaggeration nor twists.

Then that gives a different spin to the matter. Equipment was transferred from CENTO stocks then because of the urgency factor. AFAIK winter clothing-Parkas, insulated Boots, Snow-Shoes came from Italy and probably Turkey. Brandt Mortars came in too, courtesy the W.Germans; but was it from their stocks? Later the Mortars were made in India. Just as the 7.62 mm FN rifles were under the name of Ishapore SLRs. Incidentally C-130s were among the a/c ferrying material apart from C-124 Globemasters and C-119 Packets. The IAF asked for C-130s but that request was turned down. Instead C-119s and a few C-46 Commando aircraft were transferred. The C-119s were the mainstay of the IAF transport fleet in the N and NE apart from the DHC-4 Caribous which served in the NE later.

 

[Vinod2070]

The CIA agent who exposed US complicity in helping Pakistan develop a nuclear bomb | World news | The Guardian

Nuclear Weapon Tests - China Nuclear Forces

Focus on 83 onwards period. The smaller ones.

Date Yield Type
03 Oct 84 15-70 Underground
19 Dec 84 5-50 Underground

Yes, it is widely known (or suspected) that China proliferated to Pakistan and even probably gave them a tested design (or even tested a bomb for them).

Your links still say that USA willfully ignored the proliferation activities of Pakistan for its short term interests (and it makes a big noise about it). Not that USA facilitated the nuclear bombs to Pakistan directly.

 

[Vinod2070]

@Vinod2070, Check this out. US also dedicated their Space Shuttle Columbia to Afghanistan in 1982. Must've been some desperate love.

Yes, Reagen was a hardcore guy. The title is a bit misleading though. There was no Taliban then.

The Americans are very good in symbolism when they have to get their work done. Doesn't cost them a dime to make such statements, does it?

The same Americans later said something entirely different.

Zbigniew Brzezinski: "What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war? "

If course, even you can't claim the Americans had any love for the Afghans, as would be proved after 1989 when the USSR left.

 

[SQ8]

Yes, it is widely known (or suspected) that China proliferated to Pakistan and even probably gave them a tested design (or even tested a bomb for them).

Your links still say that USA willfully ignored the proliferation activities of Pakistan for its short term interests (and it makes a big noise about it). Not that USA facilitated the nuclear bombs to Pakistan directly.

The former may be linked to the latter. The link does show how there are multiple CIA's within the CIA.

 

[Vinod2070]

The former may be linked to the latter. The link does show how there are multiple CIA's within the CIA.

It would have had to be a political decision in my opinion.