India dissects Pakistan in half, in mock battles?

[Bull]

The "126" fighter deal has been in the news since 1999.

Prove it. raptor... prove it.

The Scorpene deal took almost 6 years

thats normail time frame after going thru the due deligence
.

The LCA... ......has been in "development" since the early 80's.......

corection its early 90s.

the Arjuns....have been rejected ...after being "developed " by DRDO for more than a decade....

our army doesnt take things which doesnt meet their requirement.

the ATV project started in 1983....

reallly....

 

[Bull]

The Akash and the others...cant seem to pronounce the names. Is that Sagarika misile in service yet?

if u know they are failures then uy shud be aware of it and be able to name it, right?? so give the names,nobody is asking to pronounce it over the net,juts write down the names.

or where u just making baseless accusations.

 

[Bull]

The Akash and the others...cant seem to pronounce the names.

Akash user trails are on.

Is that Sagarika misile in service yet?

"SS-350/Prithvi-III is a solid fuelled version with a 350 km range and a 1000 kg payload. It is a two stage, solid fuel, road-mobile, short-range, surface-to-surface missile. Sagarika and Prithvi-III are two different acronyms for the same missile [2]. A related program, known as Project K-15, is in development and will enable the missile to be launched from a submerged submarine [3]."


Senior Clinton administration officials in the United States report on 4/27/98 that India has a sea-launched ballistic missile named Sagarika. The Sagarika has a range of 200 miles, is capable of carrying a nuclear warhead,

http://cns.miis.edu/research/india/indiachr.htm

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Prithvi.html

 

[Jay_]

jai

The name is Jay.

I can understand your fustrations..... .. But i still havent heard a reasonable argument as to why everything takes 10 times longer in india??

You still havent told me what are included in "everything" that you seem to say.

The "126" fighter deal has been in the news since 1999.

MoD have their own reasons, they wanted to get a good deal, so they are delaying it. Its pure business.

The Scorpene deal took almost 6 years.

Same here. IN had mutiple proposals from French and German. They took their time to zero in.

The LCA... ......has been in "development" since the early 80's...

May be you need to look at ADA's timelines then.

.the Arjuns....have been rejected ...after being "developed " by DRDO for more than a decade...

Army has 124 Arjuns already.

the ATV project started in 1983....

Work on reactor miniaturization is almost complete, hull is also complete. Compare it with China, they couldnt build and field a decent SSN/SSBN so far. Where is Pakistan??

Can you try to give us all a professional answer? free of all your issues.
Thanx

I dont have any issues, unlike your posts full of empty allegations, erroneous and baseless quotes and insults.

 

[Jay_]

The Akash and the others...cant seem to pronounce the names. Is that Sagarika misile in service yet?

First use "google", find their names and their status. I cannot force feed everything.

Since you dont even seem to recall the missiles or their names or their current status, I would take that your understanding about Indian missile systems is zilch.

Its better to stay out of the topics that you dont undestand or ask others nicely to teach you.

 

[RAPTOR]

if u know they are failures then uy shud be aware of it and be able to name it, right?? so give the names,nobody is asking to pronounce it over the net,juts write down the names.
or where u just making baseless accusations.

My bad, i was "juts" reading an indian news mag online and it mentioned something about certain missiles as being failures.

P.S ---only ONE indian need reply! No need for Drama.
Thanx.



India's missile mission began with Kalam exactly 20 years ago.
Backed by a kitty of Rs 3 billion, sanctioned by the Indian government, Kalam -- who then headed the Defence Research Development Organisation -- set his sights on developing the Prithvi, Agni, Akash, Trishul and Nag missiles. Over the years, DRDO went on to become the nodal agency that would oversee all defence production.
A senior defence scientist and former Kalam colleague still working with DRDO says it is "preposterous" to suggest Kalam's missile mission has taken India to the rarefied heights of missile power over the years. "Yes, we have been able to conduct a number of flight tests, but DRDO has been unable to induct most of these missiles into the forces," he points out.
K P Somashekhar, a retired defence scientist based in Hyderabad who worked on some of the initial missile project studies, says Kalam's biggest failure has been that, under him, DRDO never met crucial project deadlines. For instance, Somashekhar says, DRDO has been building the anti-aircraft missiles -- Trishul and Akash -- for nearly two decades now. According to Kalam's plans, these surface-to-air missiles were to have replaced the Russian-supplied OSA-AK and Kvadrat systems by early 1990s. To date, though, Trishul and Akash are not successful realities.
The Trishul project began in 1983 and the deadline was 1992. Over the years, DRDO has spent more than Rs 2.6 billion on the missile, but it is still undergoing trials. DRDO officials say the major problem is that the Trishul's command guidance system does not work.
The main problem with India's missile programme, Somashekhar adds, has been that the short-range ballistic missiles, Prithvi I and II, and the medium range ballistic missile, Agni, are not a capable deterrent against, for example, China.
But Kalam's admirers disagree; they point out that his biggest achievement has been India's most capable missiles, Agni II and Prithvi's three variants. According to DRDO, Agni II can carry a 1,000 kg warhead up to 2,500 km. However, say insiders, DRDO has not so far manufactured "enough Agni II in quantity."
DRDO has so far developed three variants of the Prithvi, each capable of carrying nuclear weapons, for the army, navy and air force respectively. The army variant is already operational; however, they are still dissatisfied with the missile's performance, saying it has poor accuracy and there are operational liabilities in handling the liquid fuel.
Officials at DRDO's Hyderabad facilities say Prithvi I missiles are stored there without any military support. "It means the army does not want to use the missiles unless some emergency situation arises," a senior official explained. "In fact, all the Prithvi missile variants have been suffering from guidance problems. We really do not know when they will be really and fully operational."
Kalam's critics say he has abandoned many projects halfway and professed the defence indigenisation mantra without realistic plans. For instance, instead of developing the Agni II in quantity, DRDO has begun developing Agni III with a designed range of around 3,500 km. Kalam had set 2001 as the year for Agni III to be test-fired. But it will take many years before Agni III enters mass production.
Similarly, 15 years ago, the nuclear submarine programme was billed as India's key to second strike capability after it adopted the no-first use policy. But, after spending millions of rupees, naval headquarters is now demanding a technical audit of the Advanced Technology Vehicle project, as the project is formally known.
The design and development of the nuclear submarine is a joint project between DRDO, the Department of Atomic Energy, and the Indian Navy. Totally, they have spent a whopping Rs 20 billion on procuring the ATV's design drawings from Russia, civilian construction work, establishing test beds and testing facilities on the east coast, and procurement of related equipment.
DRDO sources say the land-based prototype testing facility of the submarine reactor has been completed successfully and a training facility to familiarise personnel with the nuclear submarine's power plant, which will use enriched uranium as reactor fuel, has also been set up. Years after the ATV project was mooted, however, the submarine's keel is yet to be laid because DRDO has been unable to decide on its construction design.
Similarly, the development of the Light Combat Aircraft, the most ambitious of all DRDO projects under Kalam, has yet to succeed. Nearly 20 years after DRDO began developing the LCA, the multi-role fighter meant to replace the MiG-21 is still a dream. :flag:

 

[Bull]

My bad, i was "juts" reading an indian news mag online and it mentioned something about certain missiles as being failures.

P.S ---only ONE indian need reply! No need for Drama.
Thanx.

Its upto us to respond,aybody who feels like putting in a word can do that.if u need a specific answer from one guy then PM him and dont post it in a public forum.


UR ARTICE AS USUAL ISNT CREDIBLE.

 

[Jay_]

My bad, i was "juts" reading an indian news mag online and it mentioned something about certain missiles as being failures.

P.S ---only ONE indian need reply! No need for Drama.

So you make the rules here?

To date, though, Trishul and Akash are not successful realities. The Trishul project began in 1983 and the deadline was 1992. Over the years, DRDO has spent more than Rs 2.6 billion on the missile, but it is still undergoing trials. DRDO officials say the major problem is that the Trishul's command guidance system does not work.

Most of the guidance problems have been ironed out, but it didnt clear the user trials. DRDO made it as a TD.

The main problem with India's missile programme, Somashekhar adds, has been that the short-range ballistic missiles, Prithvi I and II, and the medium range ballistic missile, Agni, are not a capable deterrent against, for example, China.

This news is atleast 3-4 years old. Agni 3 will fully cover China. There is a reason why missiles are classified into SRBM and IRBM.
Still, how is that a problem with missiles?? Eh?

However, say insiders, DRDO has not so far manufactured "enough Agni II in quantity."

BS reasoning. Which insiders? Do you even know when Agni 2 was cleared for prodution?

The army variant is already operational; however, they are still dissatisfied with the missile's performance, saying it has poor accuracy and there are operational liabilities in handling the liquid fuel.

Baseless allegation. India is pretty succesful in launching satellites in geo syncronous and polar orbits for heavensakes and you talk about accuracy problems in missiles.

Liquid fueled missiles and their operational doctrine do accomodate the fact that they have to be filled right before their launch. I havent heard/read any complaints from the missile regiment.

Officials at DRDO's Hyderabad facilities say Prithvi I missiles are stored there without any military support. "It means the army does not want to use the missiles unless some emergency situation arises," a senior official explained.

I'm seriously doubting the veracity of this article.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/india/hyderabad-rci-p.htm

"In fact, all the Prithvi missile variants have been suffering from guidance problems. We really do not know when they will be really and fully operational."

Blatant lie again. No sources cited.

Kalam's critics say he has abandoned many projects halfway and professed the defence indigenisation mantra without realistic plans. For instance, instead of developing the Agni II in quantity, DRDO has begun developing Agni III with a designed range of around 3,500 km. Kalam had set 2001 as the year for Agni III to be test-fired. But it will take many years before Agni III enters mass production.

So far only Trishul will not be inducted per the IGMDP.

The design and development of the nuclear submarine is a joint project between DRDO, the Department of Atomic Energy, and the Indian Navy. Totally, they have spent a whopping Rs 20 billion on procuring the ATV's design drawings from Russia, civilian construction work, establishing test beds and testing facilities on the east coast, and procurement of related equipment.

Building a SSN from groundup is not exactly cheap. May be the you need to check how much Pakistan paid for acquiring its Agosta fleet incld the manufacturing, training and tools line.

Years after the ATV project was mooted, however, the submarine's keel is yet to be laid because DRDO has been unable to decide on its construction design.

BS again. From Globalsecurity,

At that time it was reported that it would be an SSGN and displacing some 6,500 tons, with a design derivative of Russia's Project 885 Severodvinsk-class (Yasen) SSN. The ATV multirole platform would be employed for carrying out long-distance interdiction and surveillance of both submerged targets as well as principal surface combatants. It would also facilitate Special Forces operations by covertly landing such forces ashore. The ATV pressure hull will be fabricated with the HY-80 steel obtained from Russia.

# Land based reactor fully operational since December 2004
The design of the submarine is ready, and the project, called Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV), has the involvement of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) and the Navy.
http://www.thehindu.com/2005/11/25/stories/2005112502201400.htm

Similarly, the development of the Light Combat Aircraft, the most ambitious of all DRDO projects under Kalam, has yet to succeed. Nearly 20 years after DRDO began developing the LCA, the multi-role fighter meant to replace the MiG-21 is still a dream.

Given the fact that the design params changed and when the first prototype flew LCA has made a huge leap. Just look at ADA timelines.

 

[tahirkhely]

I am a pakistani. if there is someone who says that india has inferior technology, he is wrong. yes he is wrong. if its a propaganda, its all right. everybody is doing it but technologically india is quite competitive. and about missile technology, it doesnt have solid fueled missiles which Pakistan has.
Pakistan had been lucky to start and finish the crucial projects like FC1, Armour, Missile, Nuclear etc in shortest possible span.
India on the other hand started every project well before even we dreamt, but cuz of one reason or the other, could not tag it with economics and time economics.

 

[RAPTOR]

So you make the rules here?
Most of the guidance problems have been ironed out, but it didnt clear the user trials. DRDO made it as a TD.
This news is atleast 3-4 years old. Agni 3 will fully cover China. There is a reason why missiles are classified into SRBM and IRBM.
Still, how is that a problem with missiles?? Eh?
BS reasoning. Which insiders? Do you even know when Agni 2 was cleared for prodution?
Baseless allegation. India is pretty succesful in launching satellites in geo syncronous and polar orbits for heavensakes and you talk about accuracy problems in missiles.
Liquid fueled missiles and their operational doctrine do accomodate the fact that they have to be filled right before their launch. I havent heard/read any complaints from the missile regiment.
I'm seriously doubting the veracity of this article.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/india/hyderabad-rci-p.htm
Blatant lie again. No sources cited.
So far only Trishul will not be inducted per the IGMDP.
Building a SSN from groundup is not exactly cheap. May be the you need to check how much Pakistan paid for acquiring its Agosta fleet incld the manufacturing, training and tools line.
BS again. From Globalsecurity,
Given the fact that the design params changed and when the first prototype flew LCA has made a huge leap. Just look at ADA timelines.

jai or "jay" LOL..
Dont get diahrea from the news article, its from an indian newspaper so you never know where its fact or fiction. My guess would be that its pretty accurate! Although ,Im amused by the drama generated by an article...

What is your beef is APP? seems like you were thoroughly molested by someone from there. APP is a News Source and its accurate! If you cant handle it and wanna be a Bit@h about it.....then go back to "Liberty Avenue" and go be yourself!! Otherwise discuss with dignity and remain on topic.

 

[Bull]

I. and about missile technology, it doesnt have solid fueled missiles which Pakistan has.

i wudnt comment on anything else u said, as you atleast had the courtesy and heart to say what others wudnt have said.

But regarding what i have quoted....read below.

" SS-350/Prithvi-III is a solid fuelled version with a 350 km range and a 1000 kg payload. It is a two stage, solid fuel, road-mobile, short-range, surface-to-surface missile. Sagarika and Prithvi-III are two different acronyms for the same missile [2]. A related program, known as Project K-15, is in development and will enable the missile to be launched from a submerged submarine [3]." - http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Prithvi.html

"The Agni-II uses a solid propellant second stage replacing the liquid propellant Prithvi short range missile used as upper stage of the Agni-I. It can be launched within 15 minutes as compared to almost half a day of preparation for the earlier version of the Agni. Another major development is a highly mobile platform for it to be transported secretly by rail or road -anywhere in the country."- http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/india/missile/agni.htm

"AGNI Medium-range, solid fueled, nuclear capable two-stage ballistic missile " http://www.atomicarchive.com/Reports/India/Missiles.shtml

 

[tahirkhely]

"India Dissects pakistan in to two in mock battles."
there are two very intersting points that i want to make about this headline news.
1. india has achieved it in mock battles.
2. i think the weather was to hot there

 

[Sid]

Folks, get back to the topic or I will have to do the 'mopping up' exercise in here. Cheers

 

[Jay_]

[Mod Edit: MOP UP operation in effect! Mutual respect is the key. Instead of dragging on personal mud slinging contests, lets start some constructive discussion about the topic on hand]

 

[miroslav]

"India Dissects pakistan in to two in mock battles."

I think the weather was to hot there

It's even more hotter in Gazhni.

Miro