India dissects Pakistan in half, in mock battles?

[RAPTOR]

The cold start doctrine is a hostile move by india, since it shows it has not given up its dreams to take over Pakistan and then try to menace Central Asia, Persia and the Middle East. Such moves are counterproductive to the so called "peace process". We have also seen a reluctance by the rouge indian army to vacate Siachen and Kashmir...and these signs are a dangerous signal to Pakistan and neighbouring countries of indias ill intentions.

 

[EagleEyes]

Guys lets keep the discussion on track now. If any words like that occured in the future please press the report button, or report it in CSRFF. RAPTOR, please avoid those comments in the future. Now lets get the discussion get going.

 

[Bull]

The cold start doctrine is a hostile move by india, since it shows it has not given up its dreams to take over Pakistan and then try to menace Central Asia, Persia and the Middle East. Such moves are counterproductive to the so called "peace process". We have also seen a reluctance by the rouge indian army to vacate Siachen and Kashmir...and these signs are a dangerous signal to Pakistan and neighbouring countries of indias ill intentions.

U havent done ur home work Raptor. understand what cold start is and why IA develoepd that doctorine,its not for any of the purposes that you have stated.

read what sword or OOE have written ( i cant remember who wrote).

 

[Bull]

Cold Start” War Doctrine-

* The distinction between “strike corps” and “defensive corps” in ground holding role will be gradually diminished.
* The offensive military power available with defensive corps in the form of independent armoured brigades and mechanized brigades, by virtue of their forward locations would no longer remain idle waiting to launch counterattacks. They would be employed at the first go and mobilized within hours.
* Strike Corps may be re-constituted and reinforced to provide offensive elements for these eight or so “battle groups” to launch multiple strikes into Pakistan, fully integrated with the Indian Air Force and in the Southern Sector with naval aviation assets.
* Obviously, then, India’s strike corps elements will have to be moved well forward from existing garrisons. It also means that Strike Corps would no longer sit idle waiting for the opportune moment, which never came in the last three wars. The Strike Corps remained unutilised.


And the reasons for this doctorine is
* Cutting out long drawn out military mobilization running into weeks.
* The above results in loss of surprise at the strategic and military level.
* The above also gives time to Pakistan’s external patrons like USA and China to start exerting coercive pressures and mobilizing world opinion against India as witnessed in Operation Prakaram.
* Long mobilization time also gives the political leadership in India time to waver under pressure, and in the process deny Indian Army its due military victories.
* The new war doctrine would compel the political leadership to give political approval ‘ab-initio’ and thereby free the Armed Forces to generate their full combat potential from the outset.

<FONT size=3><FONT size=3>India’s Strategic Military Objectives :
* Shift from capturing bits of Pakistan territory in small scale multiple offensives to be used as bargaining chips after the cease fire.

<FONT size=3>* Focus on the destruction of the Pakistani Army and its military machine without much collateral damage to Pakistani civilians.

 

[Bull]

u can read about indian armies cold war doctorines here
http://www.saag.org/papers10/paper991.html

And raptor,as said here the aim is capture tits and bits of pakistan to be held as bargaining chip while negotiating and not cutting it into pieces as the @commander says@

 

[RAPTOR]

Guys one can always feel trembling feet of indian Army strategic planners. why india is telling us that they have designed a new strategy of cold start?

Because the old one didnt work.

 

[Bull]

Because the old one didnt work.

Yoi are right and they realised that it wont work henseforth sionce pakistan cant be pushed to such an extend that its forced to push the N button.

and also the political leadership in India was waivering and hence stopping IA from crossing the line.This new strategy is aimed at achieveing the maximum before US and china and other countries mount pressure on both countries to a cease fire.

 

[miroslav]

All this while hindustan talks peace with Pakistan!!!

In 1999 when A.B.Vajpayee sahab visited Pakistan with a goodwill bus Pakistan was busy planning and intruding in Kargil.

It also could be a morale boosting excercise for the indians after the testing of the satellite guided Shaheen ll missile with a 2,500km range.

Ever heard of Agni-II?????????

It was tested wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy back in 1999 first time.

BTW, Which satelite? Whose Satelite?

We have our own satelite and own space programme.

Whose satelite guiding you are talking about?


Miro

 

[RAPTOR]

Ever heard of Agni-II?????????

It was tested wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy back in 1999 first time.
Miro

The Agni was tested on May 22nd,1989 from a launch pad at the chandipur test facility at Balasore. That was the first ever test of your agni missile...and guess what, it is based on the Scout missile......the designs of which your current president stole while he was working at NASA's Langley Research center in Virginia in 1964.

Oh and incidently...your prithvi missile is based on the SA-2 that your master USSR gave you at the height of the cold war.


Now, the Agni 2 might have been tested in 99 as you claim, , chances are it was also tested way before that. indias missile program has had a long head start on Pakistan's and it quite ambitious. But....i cant understand why it takes soo long and why most of the missiles are failures anyway....(baring the agni and the pithvi) . is there something wrong with your scientific establishment....the lca.....the arjun........

 

[Jay_]

The Agni was tested on May 22nd,1989 from a launch pad at the chandipur test facility at Balasore. That was the first ever test of your agni missile...and guess what, it is based on the Scout missile......

First ever Agni tested came directly out of India's SLV programme. Yes, it is identical to Scout, but then most of the SLV's from the US and Europe use the same technology. Scout was a rocket and not a missile, per se. Last time I checked Agni was a Ballistic missile. It was successfully tested thrice with actual max range about 1450km and simulated range of about 2500kms. Then India suspended the program in 1995.

the designs of which your current president stole while he was working at NASA's Langley Research center in Virginia in 1964.

Get your facts straight. Abdul Kalam never worked for NASA. Infact NASA helped India to build our launch pad in Thumba and it willingly gave the design info for Scout rocket, he did NOT STEAL it. Give me a source thats says he stole it. Also, this design was infact used to build India's first SLV, no contradictions there.

Oh and incidently...your prithvi missile is based on the SA-2 that your master USSR gave you at the height of the cold war.

Actually the entire second stage is not based on SA-2. Its like a strap on liquid booster that India uses for its SLV's. ESA uses this design. Agni II now has 2 solid stages.

Russia was never India's master, India did not offer bases nor it offered unilateral support to USSR. India remained a part of NAM well in to the 70's.

Now, the Agni 2 might have been tested in 99 as you claim, , chances are it was also tested way before that.

and what are those chances?? Testing a missile is not exactly like testing a diwali rocket, you know Agni II is already in production. Agni III and Agni 4 will be tested shortly.

indias missile program has had a long head start on Pakistan's and it quite ambitious.

Yes, it is quite ambitious.And its entirely justifiable, just look at India's successful launch after launches of PSLV's and GSLV's.

But....i cant understand why it takes soo long and why most of the missiles are failures anyway....(baring the agni and the pithvi)

Rather than bad mouthing, go ahead and tell us the failures, with sources.
Countries keep testing missiles, thats how the flight plans are computed and fed to the missile computer for inertial guidance.

is there something wrong with your scientific establishment....the lca.....the arjun........

Other than your sourceless and baseless claim nothing is wrong with the establishment. Even if there is something wrong, steps are taken to ensure that the program stays on track.

Building tanks and fighter planes are not exactly repainting and assembling missiles, you know?

 

[RAPTOR]

Other than your sourceless and baseless claim nothing is wrong with the establishment. Even if there is something wrong, steps are taken to ensure that the program stays on track.
quote]

jai

I can understand your fustrations..... .. But i still havent heard a reasonable argument as to why everything takes 10 times longer in india?? The "126" fighter deal has been in the news since 1999. The Scorpene deal took almost 6 years. The LCA... ......has been in "development" since the early 80's....the Arjuns....have been rejected ...after being "developed " by DRDO for more than a decade...the ATV project started in 1983....

Can you try to give us all a professional answer? free of all your issues.

Thanx

 

[SMC]

Raptor, please stop making irrelevant posts or a 7 day ban is inevitable.

 

[RAPTOR]

Im sorry for the ---- post.[Mod Edit: Language Control please] Just trying to get a straightforward answer out of jai. He seems to be mocking everything.

 

[Bull]

.. But....i cant understand why it takes soo long and why most of the missiles are failures anyway....(baring the agni and the pithvi) . is there something wrong with your scientific establishment....the lca.....the arjun........

what other missiles are you aware of that are failures.

 

[RAPTOR]

The Akash and the others...cant seem to pronounce the names. Is that Sagarika misile in service yet?