India copying Pakistani/Western Culture

[lein303]

and from where did Muslim culture assimilate ???? it got its influence from Persian, greek and then arab world !!!!

Everyone got influenced by one another.... the moment u claim u r superior to others when comparing with older civilizations, u got to be kidding..... and mind u ...when we say India, its the indian subcontinent, boundaries changed thousands of times and will change, but it will be called Indian Subcontinent or whatever similar in different languages....

Muslim culture is generally regarded as persian/arab/turkish culture. A religion cannot be based off a set of 1 culture but different cultures. Where did I say we were superior due to being an older civilization? And you nailed it the Indian subcontinent is exactly what it is and that is a subcontinent. Just look up what "india" means

 

[lein303]

So many responses, so little time.

Let me see.

If you think Indus Valley civilization is not part of Indian culture, then you should read up more about the Indus valley civilization. Its culture, its religion, and yes its geographical reach.

What do you mean? In what way does india today share the same vallues as the indus valley civilization?

If you think that the Indus Valley civilization belongs to Pakistan because of geography, by that reckoning there's not a lot of Muslim culture that belongs to you. How much of 'your' cultural influences were created in the geographical area that is Pakistan?

This is hilarious. Your saying that the indus valley civilization was india now??? I was purely using the indus valley civilization as a example of where a civilization came from ie "indus"

Also by that logic, if Islam was restored or founded in Arabia, how can any Pakistani, live as they do thousands of kilometers away, claim to be Muslim?

So not your claiming that christians shouldnt be christians because there religion also originated from the middle east? Cultural assimation is the mix of various cultures, no culture can claim to be its own but, at the scale at which muslim culture influence india remains to be unseen in the world for any "non-muslim" country

 

[EyelessInGaza]

What do you mean? In what way does india today share the same vallues as the indus valley civilization?

Quote, wikipedia (for convenience - I understand that wiki is not the last word; however what's below corroborates my own reading)

Some Indus valley seals show swastikas which are found in later religions and mythologies, especially in Indian religions such as Hinduism and Jainism. The earliest evidence for elements of Hinduism are present before and during the early Harappan period[51][52]. Phallic symbols resembling the Hindu Siva lingam have been found in the Harappan remains.[53][54]

Many Indus valley seals show animals. One famous seal shows a figure seated in a posture reminiscent of the Lotus position and surrounded by animals was named after Pashupati (lord of cattle), an epithet of Shiva and Rudra.[55][56].[57]

This is hilarious. Your saying that the indus valley civilization was india now??? I was purely using the indus valley civilization as a example of where a civilization came from ie "indus"

No, just that parts of it extended to present day India. Most of it was in present day Pakistan, of course.

Note - I was responding to claims that IVC is solely Pakistani because it was based in present day Pakistan. Not a 100% it isn't.

My contention is that geography is not the sole decider of cultural heritage.

So not your claiming that christians shouldnt be christians because there religion also originated from the middle east? Cultural assimation is the mix of various cultures, no culture can claim to be its own but, at the scale at which muslim culture influence india remains to be unseen in the world for any "non-muslim" country

This is an intelligent argument. I am using your argument to state that the same holds for Indus Valley and India.

Again my contention is that present day geography is not a determinant of heritage.

As for Muslim influence in India, I am proud of it. Ghalib, the Taj, Muslim architecture - they are to me Indian and therefore my heritage.

More to the ground, there is a particular grace among the Muslims in Lucknow, an old world ada, a humour or whimsy that is unmatched in India. My culture as well.

There's no point saying that Indians 'own' IVC or Pakistanis 'own' it. The culture you 'own' is the culture you claim; anyone can claim it.

 

[Su 30mki]

1947 now when was india started same date. There was no such thing as india before 1947 just a collection of loosely controlled states who at different times had different rulers. "India" itself is more of a geographical term than a national one

Every country has a history of loose controlled states, be it China also, you seen Great Wall of China? its shows that china kingdom reach? how come they claim Tibet and others? wvwn in historic time not single Han was present in tibet. US , UK , Iran Iraq all are loosely controlled state.

Still India divided in states, in earlier time border state kingdom has the responsibility to stop attackers.

India was their long before British rule also and Pakistan being caved out as an another country to Muslims who are came from Persia and settled here and cant go back from they came from.

Not a smart theoretical question to ask since the answer wont depend on historical accounts but religious beliefs.

so when did people started to practice in Muslim Beliefs? with respect to other religions?

Agreed but what does that have to do with the topic? Are you saying that present day afghanistan was a part of india because that sure is laughable since afghanistan was mostly a part of the persian empire during most of its time as was most of pakistan. Now where was india? Once again nowhere india was either a loose amount of states or colonies. India wasnt united and never recieved true unity until muslims invaded (turks, persians, mughals, and afghans) a large degree of indian culture and history is due to muslims which pakistan has its identity from

Well they why don't we see Buddha religions thing in Persia? and only till Afghanistan??

Ithink you should read about Maurya Dynasty before you speak, ever heard of Taxila in Pakistan??, It was know as Takshashila in Maurya Dynasty and a Study Center

It was around 350 BC, thats why you see Buddha In Afghanistan.

India has long History ..... In think in you ever don't aware about it because you never came to know.... because your history starts when Persian invaded. Read History First then Come.

Also Read Ashoke the Great and their empire

Even in Mugals times India was divided in states and not all India was under Mugal control.

Maybe its me or your trying to portray muslims as spreading faith by sword if thats what you think then you need to read more into history. The first muslims on the subcontinent arrived from arab merchents who preached peacefully in present days pakistani province of sindh

Well Thats why in all the hindu religion places which are under mugals controlled have Mosques

Dont associate hinduism with india. India is suppose to be a secular state due to its many many subcultures

It is integral Part that's why we have one law of all religions and other for Muslims, India welcome other cultures.

They werent discovered a danm bit by india. They might have been discovered in the present day subcontinent but there surely wasnt a republic of india next to the persian or chinese empire (which are the only nations to exist for more than thousands of years).

Oh man how ignorant and knowledgeable your history is? India culter goes more then 5000 years back..... in terms of Ramayana and Mahabharata , dwarika which is mentioned in mahabharata was also found.

Surely westerners run to india in large flocks in search of job, they copy bollywood movies, dress like indians, and follow indian economic models among countless other things!

India hybrid model of socialism and privatization is now adopted by US also............ Dont you see,. how many banks US govt now have holding?

 

[Su 30mki]

see the Maury a Dynasty reach

 

[SSG VIPER]

you have some stupid Rajput Kings trying to relive the splendour of the Raj to attract tourists its contemptuous...
I don't practise dowry, or child marriage, or wear Indian clothes, or have a full beard, or practise honour killing, or arranged marriages, or caste marriagesl or wear Shalwar Kameez all the time, or speak Punjabi all the time or carry weapons etc.. etc..
[/COLOR
U BETTER CONTROL UR DIRTY TONGUE U SIKHI WIKI UR THE WIERDOS WITH THE UNCUT HAIR AND STUFF SO SHUT THE F,,,,,K UP U CHEAP SON OF... IM A MUSLIM RAJPUT AND A PROUD ONE.SO SHUT U BLOODY TRAP.UNLIKE A BRAIN DEAD WIERDO LIKE U.

 

[paritosh]

you have some stupid Rajput Kings trying to relive the splendour of the Raj to attract tourists its contemptuous...
I don't practise dowry, or child marriage, or wear Indian clothes, or have a full beard, or practise honour killing, or arranged marriages, or caste marriagesl or wear Shalwar Kameez all the time, or speak Punjabi all the time or carry weapons etc.. etc..
[/COLOR
U BETTER CONTROL UR DIRTY TONGUE U SIKHI WIKI UR THE WIERDOS WITH THE UNCUT HAIR AND STUFF SO SHUT THE F,,,,,K UP U CHEAP SON OF... IM A MUSLIM RAJPUT AND A PROUD ONE.SO SHUT U BLOODY TRAP.UNLIKE A BRAIN DEAD WIERDO LIKE U.

you are a muslim rajput?
so is Rana Naved hasan your fast bowler also a rajput muslim?
because the title 'rana' is a hindu kshatriya title...given to the rajputs like the title of 'singh' ( which was later used by the sikhs)
i am just curious...I have never interacted with a rajput muslim...my dad is from Jodhpur in Rajasthan and I have lived in Rajasthan for quite some time...

 

[bones20]

India copying Pakistani/Western Culture

Few more

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Few more

interesting

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Few more

Indians = Roma People (do wiki search on Roma People in Europe)
Romani people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The girl in the picture has Roma Ancestry....

Not Aryans , like Russian or other nationals.

Pakistan has mostly Real Indus civilization , and also Greek empire and other great nations of past history, thats why you see Pathans and Afghans and Punjabis or Kashmiri who looks fairly ... different then Roma People (a.k.a Indians)
Romani people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Not that there is nothing wrong in being Roma People , all beautiful people ... and diverse but I don't buy for 1 second that , Indians are decendents from europe , Roma people moved place to place

You can see similarity of these ancitient people, in europe and modern day indians to connect the two dots -

May be most Indians would differ with the statement , but when I see the pictures I can make sense that these guys were Gypsies, they moved city to city ... and may be thats how some of them populated the areas that are part of what is knowns as India now ? Who knows but its a good read to learn about people and history -


But Pakistan on other hand , had the true Indus valley civilization , which was a the main civilization and included Pakistan & Afghanistan this is why we see a closeness in features of the people in those areas. And later Greeks also lived in the area now knowns as Pakistan so their history also became part of Pakitan along with Arabs who also moved in the region

But all these issues are irrelevant as the world is a big melting pot


PS: If river indus is in Pakistan ? what civilization exists in India its definitly not the Indus civizalition as that was Sindh/Punjab where the indus river flows

 

[EyelessInGaza]

All I want to say on the subject is that healthy, vibrant societies assimilate, or 'copy' if you will, from external influences. It is good, it is right, it is the way things should be,

The society that does not 'copy', stagnates.

 

[arihant]

one new bs thread should be open "Pakistan copying Taliban Style"

 

[sathruvinasakh]

So India has copied the origin and history of Pakistan to theirs and making it so called Mahabharata history etc.. I think Imran Khans explains it well.

With the images like these... You see that Pakistani history started from the west and went to the east, and later Indians claimed the history and named it / tied it with their religion so it is easy and justified to claim.

R U kidding?
Seriously you people gotta have to get me a life.

India copying pakistan culture?

Dude,India being called as Bharatavarsha in the ancient period was ruled by single major kings of many dynasties.
Firstly being ruled by Bharata -The son of Dushyanta and Shakuntala.
Dushyantas empire itself starts from far western end of afghanistan to today B`desh.And after Bharata became emperor.he further enhanceed the borders with whole subcontinent under his rule. this was around 1500BCE.since then untill 100BCE the whole subcontinent was ruled by a single emperor.It was only during Chandragupta Maurya ,the central asian states and the east asian nations came under maurya control and passed on to Ashoka.
Hahaha it is only in the 12 century mughals started ruling northern India.And by 1800 Brits came in.
Was pakistan being mentioned anywhere from the start of civilization to till 1947?
But Bharat was.Being the oldest and the first civilization,be it a first man started living on this soil or be it the dinosaurs started mating in the southern india,It is only India that is land of wonders until 10th century.
West might be downplaying the Indias existence from the begining and ignoring the first human to survive on this mass of land.but facts and proofs never go wrong.With many archeological surveys found evidences that humans were living on this soil atleast 400 000BCE.
And the culture/religion followed since the early stone ages was more or less hinduism.Meaning the first known religion to the world.
Neither the Jesus Christ nor the Prophet Mohammad were born during the period.Even Buddhism is older than these two above which stated around 400BCE.
Conclusion is simple,Indian culture is the oldest known to mankind.

 

[SQ8]

The title of the thread should be modified..
Pakistani's trying to copy Indians copying western lifestyle.

However, I have in my comparatively recent trip to India(6 years ago) seen the average Indian and he/she has not adopted..but rather adapted the western culture into his/her Indian lifestyle. The average 23ish university bound urban Indian will still go the the temple/mosque/church yet has no qualms about hitting the club or taking a walk on the beach with his girlfriend(a growing trend effecting both our countries). The average Indian does want his/her Gucci but will settle for a local designer as well, the Pakistani will go for the local designed only if he/she is famous and if he/she cant afford Prada. Language use is mixed across the spectrum but generally people tend to stick to Hindi with varying levels of English interleaved which is the same in Pakistan with Urdu.It was only in a few strict Hindu households where I saw the use of Sanskrit, otherwise the only actual difference I felt was that everybody was darker skinned.I spoke the same as I would with my friends here, and nobody looked at me like an alien(except the few ignorant who expected a Pakistani to come in a Sherwani and Jinnah cap),There is a difference, but if not for the burden of politics past we can get along easily with the City Indian, I did see some RSS elements draped in orange with deep red tilaks(thats what it is right??) but they seem to have more influence over the lower classes.

One thing which sets India apart is the lack of excessive showing off. While brand names are desired they are not an obsession. And rarely do you see a flashy car even in some cases where it is easily affordable. The same applies to eating habits and unless dining out in a posh restaurant the Indian Hindu prefers to have one simple dish or the venerable Thali. Muslims in India are a little more open in their culinary expenditures but due to cultural concerns I never saw beef at any meal(I do not wish to hurt the sentiments of Hindu members but they are missing out on the delight that is a well done tenderloin steak, but the same could be said to Muslims about ham), It is generally easier to have a meal in a Sikh household as they don't seem to have reservations about using the same utensils as people not of their religion, but I may be wrong and this Hindu tradition may be on its way to being phased out.

Class divisions are still there but are rapidly increasing, However India has benefited from a growing middle class which is matching the growth of its poor, education being its primary catalyst. In Pakistan the situation is opposite, rampant corruption is creating pockets of upper class which unlike India have no interaction with any of the lower classes and in turn are increasing the gap. The upper middle class is being absorbed into the upper class, anything below that is being pushed further down the order.
Overall, The balance between western and indigenous culture is more on an even keel in India with the exception of the discarding of some strict religious rules in urban areas.

In Pakistan however, Find a tailor named Shabbir, and put him in a shop called "Shabz". We will buy!, The need to prove ourselves more modern than our neighbors has buried itself deep within us. I credit it to a lack of national Identity and our need to identify a single cohesive culture which might tie us together with different sub-cultures within it, something India has accomplished.
So.. from my point of view.. change the title .. then discuss.

 

[arihant]

From my view both Pak and India copying western culture.

@ santro - thanks telling about your visit. When you visited and how was your trip.