India claims arrest of Indian Mujahideen operative

[haviZsultan]

@haviZsultan Hope you will say same thing for RSS organization and BJP. Afterall you think since most of the Ansaris are good people, they can't be terrorists. Apply same logic for RSS and Hindus in general.

I already apply the same logic for Hindus. But RSS is a very different thing. Maybe some voters for BJP are not communal but RSS I can't really come to support.

Also what you said the issue is this seems like conspiracy theory because it has become a mindset... people suspect muslims, believe they would do the worst. I have given examples many times of how treason charges applied to Muslims are almost never applied to other groups. These people may have been framed. Over and over we hear Ansaris and it is like an annoying cacophony. What is being proven here?

Also conspiracy theory is basically another term used to obfuscate an ideal or way of thinking that is unpleasant. The reason it looks like a conspiracy theory is because of the weakness or poor "shouting power" (means spreading the message). Its got to do with Pakistan's credibility and a nation where bombs are going off constantly is incapable of pushing its narrative, though initially Pakistani pressure on the government was monumental and we tried. Eventually that narrative becomes so weak that other countrymen too stop believing it despite monumental evidences. I will talk about the time in jail of those people for trying to report murder by RSS terrorists you won't count that as evidence either. But when people see it they know very well there is another side to the entire picture.

All these cases in the article of innocent people framed on false charges in the past were not false. Its not only happening in India but Pakistan and other places too. I saw it myself in Canada and the Guyanese guy on FBI most wanted list is innocent. I am sure of it. Its because people suspect others, particularly Muslims.

Also Krait you do not know about Muslim families. Even Muslims rarely know. I know the houses that are religious and those that are not. Modern Ansaris are into bollywood, dance and women in India. Its very rare to find an Ansari with a beard today in India though in Pakistan its different due to Islamicization. Zaidi's, Ansaris are all very open-minded families.

 

[joekrish]

I am not related to this guy as all Ansaris don't know all Ansaris. But I believe this needs to be investigated further. There are just way too many Ansaris being named in terrorism cases even though its the most secular of all families in India. This is basically punishment for Ansari's historical ties with Pakistan and voting for the Muslim League in the past. It is nothing more or nothing less. Even despite harassment younger Ansaris are willing to give India a chance and support it which I have also been frustrated with as they do not seem to want our support from families that moved but this is very wrong I believe. I will present the cases of dozen or so Ansaris that were found to be guilty for everything that went wrong in India.

Here is Zabiuddin Ansaris wife saying Zabi was innocent:
[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQSiU97ETqo[/video]

Maybe he was more religious than average ansari but how is he being framed? Also if this guy is involved then it means the 10 attackers were not Pakistani. They spoke marathi as well and Qasab spoke Deccan dialect. No one in Pakistan speaks that, especially in a village in Punjab. all migrant families, all 40,000-200,000 Deccan families are now in Sindh not Punjab and 80% in Karachi or Hyderabad. This only weakens India's case but Pakistan isn't pointing the flaws. Our country's government should defend Ansaris and Firangi Mahal as Hasrat Mohani was from there and died there and it was used as baithak of Muslim League once. The fault is our country Pakistan's for not caring about the people left there which resulted in their isolation. They eventually were forced to call themselves Indian as having link to Pakistan only hurt them and Pakistan never defended their interests.

The NIA will not do anything special to clear your doubts for that matter nobody in this very forum can do anything to clear your doubts about all Ansaris being innocent. All I can tell you here is all Gandhi's were not killed by the Godse's.

 

[haviZsultan]

What an absurd logic you came with!! Was Osama Bin Laden born in a rich family and well educated? We have seen well educated Young Men are falls for terrorism. Just because of a Surname a Terrorist won't be an Innocent and vice versa. By your logic, all Bin Ladens in the world are terrorist too. Jeez you are a Jr. TT!!

Lets say he could be terrorist. But it is still suspicious how one of the most tolerant family group is being framed for everything. Do note this from the article. If he is a terrorist I would like to see him hanged regardless he is an Ansari but I refuse to believe that it is an Ansari yet again after dozens of times. The people of Barabanki district and many Lucknowites are Ansaris. This should be protested and police asked to give proof. For everything that goes wrong how can an Ansari be responsible?

Man you know nothing about Ansaris. This should be properly investigated. Police can find any fake proof whenever it wants. This is another case:

The arrests of the two men by Indian and Pakistani investigators within four days of each other exposed the nexus between the forces of the underworld and the warriors of jehad. The arrests also established the complicity of Pakistani intelligence agencies in their joint venture, and their links with the Al Qaida and the Taliban. Their fingerprints are to be found in every major act of terrorism carried out on the subcontinent in the past two years: the hijacking of the IC 814, the attack on the Indian Parliament, the shoot-out at the American Center in Kolkata and the kidnapping of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. One man calls himself a jehadi, the other a don-now it is difficult to tell where crime ends and jehad begins.

Evil intent has made comrades of contrary men. Ansari, from Lallapura, Varanasi in Uttar Pradesh, decided at 21 years of age that a journalism degree was not the route to high life, and chose crime instead. Sheikh, from London's Wanstead, son of a fashion store owner, was a high-school prefect from an expensive private school who found religion the most tedious of all subjects. In 1992, when enrolled at the London School of Economics, he saw a 45-minute documentary on Bosnia titled Destruction of a Nation. The film moved him to sign up with an aid agency heading for Bosnia. When he returned, he was transformed and fired by the Arab and Pakistani "warriors" he had met in the Balkans. He left home and travelled to Afghanistan to join the jehad.

Two years later he found himself in the Tihar Jail, being tried for the 1994 kidnapping of an American and three British tourists in India. The kidnapping had been staged to negotiate the release of Maulana Masood Azhar, general secretary of the Harkat-ul-Ansar terrorist group, and founder of the Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM). Ansari was in prison at the time for minor offences: violating the Arms Act and a kidnapping-for-ransom case in Luxa, Varanasi. Ansari jumped bail in 1999 and fled to Dubai on a passport acquired in the name of Mohammad Farhan Mallick.

I don't see how one of the most tolerant houses is being called this. Zaidi's Ansaris and a lot of other family names I can name are very broad-minded. Ansaris only have a history of supporting Muslim League historically. This has become a crime.

 

[KRAIT]

@haviZsultan YOu don't know about RSS. I have been part of RSS and I know what they teach. Pure nationalism. RSS also has members from Jainism that I have seen. Can't say about rest. So if you ask me to believe you from your experience and all, you should also take into account what I and world says. Never in any media, RSS has been implicated. Its an organization with hundreds of thousands member and you are generalizing it bevcause of 10 members.

Do you know what started Godhara ? Read about it. BTW Indian Court already sentenced BJP minister and Bajrang Dal leader. But can you say about same in your country ? Not a single terrorist has been hanged or sent to jail till death.

Problem is of course there are cases with false accusations but you should also see the reason behind it. People make mistakes. I see you guys everyday blaming Tribal people of your own. Tell me what was the fault of that woman and 2 children whose bodies were found in this month ?


Thing is since you got one statement made by a politcal leader to garner minorities vote, you got a chance to paint entire RSS and BJP with same picture on basis of 10 ex RSS members.

Don't cry foul when US and Western nations paint Pakistan as terrorists since many terrorists found were Pakistanis and world's most wanted terrorist was found in military town of Pakistan.


What I have been seeing for past few days that those who used to say that don't generalize Muslims because of acts of few are doing the same.

We are proud of our Muslims. Look at today's newspaper, a movie was banned in Andhra Pradesh because it may send wrong message about Muslims in general.

Don't forget the justice we provide them as citizen of India.

George Bush when introduced his wife to PM Manmohan Singh he said, he is the Prime Minister of that country which has over 150 million Muslims and not a single member of Al Qaeda. (its a figurative statement)

This is the image of Indian Muslims around the world.

 

[KS]

The people of Barabanki district and many Lucknowites are Ansaris. This should be protested and police asked to give proof. For everything that goes wrong how can an Ansari be responsible?

The due process of law will take place. Are you even aware that all over the world the police only flash an arrest warrant initially to arrrest an individual and not the entire proof. That comes later during the judicial process.

Dont be an emotional tool and start putting the cart before the horse.

Man you know nothing about Ansaris. This should be properly investigated.

No one needs to know jack **** about Ansaris. There was prima facie evidence against him and he was arrested. Now the judicial process will take over. He will be convicted if he is guilty or he will be set free if found innocent. Save us your family/clan history. No one is interested. Either this guy is completely off his rockers or he is just pretending to be one derailing threads intentionally.

 

[nForce]

It would be wrong to generalize people.It would be wrong to say that this Ansari is innocent just because they are normally peace-loving people just in the same way we cannot generalize all Pakistanis to be terrorists because some among them are terrorists.
Also,family history and words from the family members cannot be taken as absolute evidence of innocence.

 

[T90TankGuy]

Just like how the NIA blamed the Mecca masjid bomb blasts on a group of traveling Muslim students

WITHOUT PROOF

And then it turned out to be a Hindu extremist

it wasn't the NIA which arrested them but the local cops. the NIA was formed in 2008 after 26/11
by the way they are one agency which cannot be accused of bias as they are the ones who arrested the 10 above mentioned people who were fringe elements of the rss.

Just like a few fringe elements who carry out terrorists attacks do not represent the Muslim population , nether do these 10 represent the RSS. (i am not personally a fan of the rss but you cant paint an organisation just cuz it has a few loonies. )

 

[KRAIT]

Well I don't blame them. their own justice system has taken confidence away from law and order.

Recently, by making these kinds of threads on RSS, BJP, Hindu terrorism and posting on them, Pakistanis are revealing their basic flaw. Only good thing is intellectual from Pakistan whether who live in Pakistan or in another country, are more logical and rational.

I hope those Pakistani posters post often.

 

[haviZsultan]

It would be wrong to generalize people.It would be wrong to say that this Ansari is innocent just because they are normally peace-loving people just in the same way we cannot generalize all Pakistanis to be terrorists because some among them are terrorists.
Also,family history and words from the family members cannot be taken as absolute evidence of innocence.

I am not related to him.

None of the 4 aforementioned people in my articles either. But I have been loyal to Ansaris and my fathers family most particularly because of its role in Pakistan's formation through support for the Muslim League and its rich history though that of my fathers side is much more obscure.

Its your country, do what you want.

 

[Icewolf]

In the end, justice prevailed. Innocents got free and real culprits by caught by same country.

See, we deliver justice at better rate.

By the way NIA is the same agency that caught 10 ex RSS members.

And the Muslims were put into jail for 4 years

After 4 years, India GOV simply said SORRY! for wasting 4 years of your education, u r free now, goodbye!

what joke is this? id be pissed off

this is what fuels INDIAN MUJAHIDEEN

 

[nForce]

I am not related to him.

None of the 4 aforementioned people in my articles either. But I have been loyal to Ansaris and my fathers family most particularly because of its role in Pakistan's formation through support for the Muslim League and its rich history though that of my fathers side is much more obscure.

Its your country, do what you want.

Not concerned about personal relations here,neither I am talking about you here.I am talking in relation to this Indian Mujahideen operative.Its good for you that you had the chance to interact with the good Ansaris and our bad luck that we are dealing with a case of bad apple.

 

[haviZsultan]

@haviZsultan YOu don't know about RSS. I have been part of RSS and I know what they teach. Pure nationalism. RSS also has members from Jainism that I have seen. Can't say about rest. So if you ask me to believe you from your experience and all, you should also take into account what I and world says. Never in any media, RSS has been implicated. Its an organization with hundreds of thousands member and you are generalizing it bevcause of 10 members.

I cannot really respect RSS if thats what you want since their members have been involved in dozens of case studies I studied. But you are perhaps a better person. Each RSS person has a kind of communal bent though and I would believe you do not believe in secularism. Generally RSS members don't or accept it in vague, general terms but do not have a mindset to follow through.

Do you know what started Godhara ? Read about it. BTW Indian Court already sentenced BJP minister and Bajrang Dal leader.

But can you say about same in your country ? Not a single terrorist has been hanged or sent to jail till death.

I have studied every piece, everything on the war on terror. You can disagree but you cannot dispute my knowledge. I specialize in statistics.

3143 terrorists have been arrested in the last 3 years. They were obviously kept in jail. The issue is how many terrorists are acquitted. PPP placed a hold on the death penalty which is why not many hangings have taken place, however 276 persons were given the death penalty 2009. In 2008 a number of the attackers of Musharraf were hanged. In either case in every thread about India Pakistan has to somehow appear. That is another issue. 79% of all violent deaths in South Asia were in Pakistan in 2012 so basically despite massive consequences we are fighting the mullahs-which is a massive issue in an Islamic Republic. It is easier in a secular state but still hard to understand how RSS still operates. I cannot respect this group. It is communal.

Problem is of course there are cases with false accusations but you should also see the reason behind it. People make mistakes. I see you guys everyday blaming Tribal people of your own. Tell me what was the fault of that woman and 2 children whose bodies were found in this month ?

The issue is humans can make errors. But the problem begins when things are done on purpose. What I saw in Sufferers Witness and what I heard from those who moved in 2003-2004 was police obfuscated reality on purpose and even harassed them to stop them.

Thing is since you got one statement made by a politcal leader to garner minorities vote, you got a chance to paint entire RSS and BJP with same picture on basis of 10 ex RSS members.

I will not respond as I have heard the bold part used often by RSS people. It is not understandable for me to see how a minority can oppress a majority or their 13% vote can adumbrate the 85% majority's vote. Largely it seems to me whatever 13% do they can make no difference whatsoever.

Don't cry foul when US and Western nations paint Pakistan as terrorists since many terrorists found were Pakistanis and world's most wanted terrorist was found in military town of Pakistan.

This is deflection from the real issue being discussed in the thread. I pointed out Pakistan has struggled against militants. It is unfortunate the world does not see it. If our neighbors were not so keen to prod us and seek out every failure things might have been better. It is a massive media victory for India the way Pakistan is now seen. But it is not the topic.

What I have been seeing for past few days that those who used to say that don't generalize Muslims because of acts of few are doing the same.

The issue is it is too personal for me. I at the same time realize it is weakening my ability to merge as a Pashtun as people don't want me to be so involved with what is now across the border despite what might have been in 47 and what was stated in Chaudhry Rehmat Ali's map. Personally my loyalty to Ansaris is weakening my own position at home (Pakistan). I cannot defend those guys who do not wish to defend themselves.

We are proud of our Muslims. Look at today's newspaper, a movie was banned in Andhra Pradesh because it may send wrong message about Muslims in general.

This is good. But there's more needed. One thing is not picking anyone up as a suspect.

Don't forget the justice we provide them as citizen of India.

George Bush when introduced his wife to PM Manmohan Singh he said, he is the Prime Minister of that country which has over 150 million Muslims and not a single member of Al Qaeda. (its a figurative statement)

This is the image of Indian Muslims around the world.

The thread is now yours unless I get a very interesting response somewhere which I have to reply to. I have made it clear that these are 5 Ansaris charged with terrorism (a number of them acquitted) and modern Ansaris and Zaidi's are among the least religious Muslim families. This could be a major injustice.

 

[KRAIT]

@haviZsultan You can believe whatever you want as you are clearly prejudiced about everything and call everyone is at fault except them. I actually see this quality of Pakistanis as added advantage of India.

I am a Secular or not. Well buddy, I can give you instances from my life which are sufficient enough to answer anyone.

Stop telling us what needs to be done. You are the one who said Owasi speech wasn't hate speech. I think you should research more on your nation first. You guys always try to finds fault in others and search for external hand in your own trouble.

Its your belief vs court of law. I respect latter.

As for statistics, should I provide which nation is more safe for Muslims and where minorities gets better treatment ? Because I can tell you for sure, you can never win with numbers.

Kindly give some stats about number of terrorists from Pakistani Muslim community of around 180 million and number of terrorists from Indian Muslim community of 150 million.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

And the Muslims were put into jail for 4 years

After 4 years, India GOV simply said SORRY! for wasting 4 years of your education, u r free now, goodbye!

what joke is this? id be pissed off

this is what fuels INDIAN MUJAHIDEEN

yes anybody would get pissed of if kept in jail for 4 years for trail.this is the biggest weakness of our justice system, but it happens in many cases not only in terrorism related cases.

 

[Frank Martin]

Lets say he could be terrorist. But it is still suspicious how one of the most tolerant family group is being framed for everything. Do note this from the article. If he is a terrorist I would like to see him hanged regardless he is an Ansari but I refuse to believe that it is an Ansari yet again after dozens of times. The people of Barabanki district and many Lucknowites are Ansaris. This should be protested and police asked to give proof. For everything that goes wrong how can an Ansari be responsible?

Man you know nothing about Ansaris. This should be properly investigated. Police can find any fake proof whenever it wants. This is another case:



I don't see how one of the most tolerant houses is being called this. Zaidi's Ansaris and a lot of other family names I can name are very broad-minded. Ansaris only have a history of supporting Muslim League historically. This has become a crime.

You have already got your answer from the above posts. Anyway, NIA might have sufficient evidence against him and they can't publish all this in public before the court processes takes place. He will be produced in front a court and I'm sure that he'll also get a lawyer to defend his side. If he's innocent ie the evidence are not sufficient enough to punish him, he'll be acquitted for sure.