India cancels plans to buy 48 Mi-17 V5 helicopters from Russia

[Vapnope]

@Raj-Hindustani @Wood Does India has a similar plane (like mi 17) built indigenously? Or with a JV?

 

[Joe Shearer]

India for certain has a problem with the Su30 fleet right now - it is in urgent need of an upgrade to stay combat effective. Losing a Su30MKI in a stand-off with the PAF when an F16 shot one down has shown its weaknesses against modern fighters and missiles and illustrates how dated the avionics suite is for "front line active" combat versus the needs of a 2nd line defence which is where the jet is not pitched at.

The Su30MKI fleet needs new engines as they are working through the lifespans of the existing engines already.

The most logical solution for India is essentially to take the avionics & electronics core for the Tejas 1A / Tejas 2 and use that to upgrade the Su30MKI with homegrown mission computers, displays and AESA Radars and EW equipment. Essentially attempt to do what China has done with its J11 upgrade programme on Russian purchased jets.

The problem India has is will the Russians agree to sell "just the new engines" or will they insist on the entire Super Sukhoi upgrade contract as was originally envisaged. I suspect they will insist on the whole deal and there will be a standoff between the two that will delay the programme until either side relents.

The Su30MKI upgrade programme could well become a political pawn between India-USA-Russia ... interesting times ahead for sure.

Fortunately, certain commentators see day-dreams of SU 30s blowing up in front of them daily. At this rate, there will be none left.

It was a sorry sight to see a member doggedly bring out that article of faith about a SU 30 having been shot down; the more things change, the more they are the same.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

@Raj-Hindustani @Wood Does India has a similar plane (like mi 17) built indigenously? Or with a JV?

No, it is under development....

M17 v5 is a good platform but everyone knows about the Indian silly ministers... 2014, still no progress on this.

At least, hal is doing good on helicopters development.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/hal-plans-medium-lift-chopper/article35397929.ece

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Raj-Hindustani @Wood Does India has a similar plane (like mi 17) built indigenously? Or with a JV?

No, only light helicopters of 3 tonnes and below.

The Mi 17 is a much bigger machine, and it is better to continue to add to our stock of CH47s until we have worked our way through medium helicopters, At the moment, the existing Mi 17s are sufficient to deal with whatever we need to do, and the light helicopter range is very well covered.

 

[Vapnope]

No, only light helicopters of 3 tonnes and below.

The Mi 17 is a much bigger machine, and it is better to continue to add to our stock of CH47s until we have worked our way through medium helicopters, At the moment, the existing Mi 17s are sufficient to deal with whatever we need to do, and the light helicopter range is very well covered.

Totally forgot about CH47s. I don't see a problem for canceling this deal then.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Totally forgot about CH47s. I don't see a problem for canceling this deal then.

We have excess, actually.

Only three CH47s, but even that is too much.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

We have excess, actually.

Only three CH47s, but even that is too much.

Any update about Mi 26?

Are these going to scrapped?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Any update about Mi 26?

Are these going to scrapped?

No, no. We need them. Those are muscle babies. They pick up Chinooks!!!!

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has already integrated the Su30 mki with Software Defined Radios (SDR) supplied by Israeli Rafael company successfully. Su-30MKI also now features an indigenous ANS-1100A VOR/ILS System that helps aircraft navigate by using fixed ground-based beacons when coming for landing and an Upgraded Radio Altimeter which aids Pilot to carry out low level or night flight below 2500 feet. BNET-AR/Global-Link Airborne software-defined Radio have been integrated into most of the fighter jets so that the Pilots can communicate with each other without been eaves dropped by the rival pilots in the vicinity.
Su-30MKI will also get upgraded RAM-1701AS radio altimeter which is also integrated with the newly inducted Dassault Rafale fighter jets.

You are wasting your time.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Did I ask your advice?

No, you didn't.

Keep spouting techno-babble.

 

[Tornado23]

Pakistani Air Force has the largest number of Chengdu J7, Mirage 3 and Mirage 5 which are five decades old and can be considered equivalent to MiG-21. Even after adding modern 110 JF17 and 75 F16(only 18 jets are block 52 version), the number of good fighters is very less in front of the number of MiG-29UPG, Mirage 2000, Sukhoi 30, Rafale and Tejas of the Indian Air Force.

Mirage III and 5 will play a strike role, conducting stand off strikes and CAS where needed. It wont be playing an air superiority role. Pakistan doesnt have any j7. It has the F7PG, which will be used as an interceptor.

The Jf17, f16 and J10c will play multi role/air superiority. Pretty much all F16 can fire the Aim120C5 (except ADF) and the Jf17 blk 3 and J10c will be able to fire the Pl15

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

We have excess, actually.

Only three CH47s, but even that is too much.

Thanks for the update..

But as per the last update, all three mi 26 were supposed to send to Russia for overall. But no updates further....

Looks like still Awaiting for it.. No flying..

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thanks for the update..

But as per the last update, all three mi 26 were supposed to send to Russia for overall. But no updates further....

Looks like still Awaiting for it.. No flying..

There are other places, but probably contractual obligations to send it to the Mil factory.

 

[monitor]

Indian proclamation of making Mi-17 type helis locally is novel to me.

I don't know what platform is planned and how development could be ramped up quickly to meet requirements.

Bangladesh Air "Farce" alone has 35 Mil Mi-171sh types, as well as the army (some with rocket pods and heavy machine guns fitted), there are more unknown numbers stored for parts and also operated in UN duties roles in Africa. Bangladesh army operates a half dozen. It is a staple of armies and air-forces all around the world in the heavy lift category, and as reliable as an anvil, unless you carelessly drive it against a mountain side.

Mountain 1, Heli 0.

Most people don't know that the Mi-171 successor is already being tested in Moscow by Kazan Helicopters (Mi-38-2), simultaneously while the Mi-171s at Ulan Ude are being upgraded with glass cockpits and newer more efficient engines. Both will remain in service and be sold liberally, regardless of futile Western Schemes to stop sales. China alone will buy them by the hundreds (Ulan Ude plant is very close to Mongolian border). The Mi-171 at its price range has few equals in the Western Heavy lift heli offerings.

Mil Mi-38-2 images below (glad they kept the familiar planform). Incremental improvements are better than disruptive ones in this case. Familiar Klimov engines as well.

I hope our Air "Farce" orders these Mi-38's for utility tasks rather than Mi-171's next time.

Bangladesh army Mi-171SH with gun and rocket pods

They are having this baby .

The #HAL has started the procedure to form a Special Purpose Vehicle (#SPV) for the development of the 13-ton category Indian Multi-Role Helicopter (#IMRH) on the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) Model

 

[Tornado23]

Punching above its weight...Hahaha, sounds appropriate for PAF, atleast remember how tiny it is. Now about superiority, well now that no upgrades coming for F16,please ask Chini uncle to donate some toys. PL15 can't be effective when the fighter's radar range is just 150km. The KLJ series uses X Band, quiet efficient except in dense clouds or forests but given JF17 engine capacity doubt it derives enough power

PAF is not small...


F16 doesnt matter whether upgrades are coming or not, in its current config, it still holds superiority over many of the jets IAF field (su30mki and Mig29 with its RVV AE [~70km range]). The aim120c5 has a 105km range.

The jf17 block 2 currently still use the Klj7 radar which has a 150km range. Those use the SD10A [~80km range]. There is a reason why i said Jf17 blk 3. That will use the KLJ7a AESA radar which has a 170km range. The Pl15E has a 145km range. It fits.

The j10C has an even more powerful radar, thus being able to use the standard Pl15 that the PLAAF uses. Those out range the meteor on the rafale which you only have 36 of.

Meteor has at most any where from 100+km to 150km range. Pl15e has a 145km range the base pl15 has a 170km+ range.

I dont understand your argument?

 

[Tornado23]

Astra has been integrated with SU30 MKI and will be integrated with Mirage 2000, Tejas and Mig 29 Upg in the future. An additional order of 248 missiles were placed for Iaf and IN for use on various platforms Taking the total order number to 298 missiles. Max range of Astra is 20 km (12 mi) in head-on chase mode and 110 km (68 mi) in tail chase mode.Astra's low aspect ratio wings allow it to engage manoeuvring targets. It can be launched in both autonomous and buddy mode operation and can lock on to its target before or after it is launched. It is equipped with ECMs

Congratulations on describing an average medium range missile?