India beefs up defence along China-India border

[Nihat]

but india's challenging PLA's endurance with recent aggressive moves, it's like you are trying to starve a tiger,imaging a living stand in front of it if the CPC can't hold the chain

that is unfair to say the least , how has India challenged PLA's endurance with recent aggressive moves.

China probably has a full fledged missile base near Tibet with nuke tipped missiles roughly capable of hitting India , pak , Nepal , Bhutan and Myanmar so basically it's quite clear where those missile are pointed to.

In response to that a couple of squadron of jets and 2 mountain brigades is probably a minimum for deterrence.

Nothing stops china from being expansionist as far as military goes but to expect others to not respond in even the smallest way is just plain hypocritical.

 

[maverick2009]

China does not Spend $300 billion thats like 7% of their GDP.

If india spent 7% to match China that too wud be close to $100 billion.

Officially China spends 1.75% = $$$75 billion

India $30 billion at 2.5%

The gap is not as huge as you make

 

[Mig-29]

China does not Spend $300 billion thats like 7% of their GDP.

If india spent 7% to match China that too wud be close to $100 billion.

Officially China spends 1.75% = $$$75 billion

India $30 billion at 2.5%

The gap is not as huge as you make

Thats exactly what it is official figure which is way lower than the actual estimate , as per recent estimate by SIPRI and DoD china defense budget may surpass $150 billion.

Military budget of the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whereas in Indian defense budget due to bureaucratic hurdles every year a large portion of the budget remains unspent and it is returned to GoI, and for the previous year 2008 it would be $1 billion.

Indian Arms Buy Push Leaves $1B Unspent - Defense News

 

[MFI]

Nemesis, i have a question for you too, why India wana keep Kashmir when Kashmirs call themselves pakistani & hoist pakistani flags ?????

So i guess the answer to this question would the answer to your question.

With the amount of militants crossing over to our Kashmir,i'd be surprised if we don't see any Pakistani flags!

 

[TaimiKhan]

MFI, kindly read the history before u say anything, during nehru time there were no mujahedin in kashmir nor any fighting, nehru had promised a plebiscite as per UN resolution to the kashmiri people.

 

[MFI]

MFI, kindly read the history before u say anything, during nehru time there were no mujahedin in kashmir nor any fighting, nehru had promised a plebiscite as per UN resolution to the kashmiri people.

I have read the history of the Kashmir conflict from far credible sources than your history books.The people of the valley have never called themselves as Pakistani.Those who were in favour of acceding to Pakistan fled there,whereas other pro-pakistan elements formed Azad Kashmir.
Besides them the people of the valley were never interested in pakistan
India doesn't need to keep Kashmir as they're an Indian state by consent.

 

[vandemataram]

Nemesis, i have a question for you too, why India wana keep Kashmir when Kashmirs call themselves pakistani & hoist pakistani flags ?????

So i guess the answer to this question would the answer to your question.

Seems you roam around in Pahalgam, Baramulla, Srinagar, Leh and Ladakh to see Pakistani falgs flying?

Thts a good one....

 

[BSF]

Originally Posted by taimikhan View Post
Nemesis, i have a question for you too, why India wana keep Kashmir when Kashmirs call themselves pakistani & hoist pakistani flags ?????

So i guess the answer to this question would the answer to your question.

Do they host Pakistani flags in Aski Chin?

Hey that is Kashmir too.

 

[Nemesis]

ask your govt how many indian immigrated to that area after 1962,

The population of Arunchal is one million. So your comments don't make any sense.

http://arunachalpradesh.nic.in/rpeople.htm]People and Culture of Arunachal Pradesh

we are not living in the stone age,it's still a disputed area even if 1.1B indian are all living in that area.

So, according to your logic, if India now starts claiming Beijing, it would become a disputed territory irrespective of whether the citizens of Beijing want to or not.

Let me just state now that i have recently come back from a visit to the north east, including Arunachal. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the people of Arunachal consider themselves Indian and are even proficient in Hindi.

but india's challenging PLA's endurance with recent aggressive moves, it's like you are trying to starve a tiger,

The Tiger is India's national animal. Please post similes using the Dragon instead.

Nemesis, i have a question for you too, why India wana keep Kashmir when Kashmirs call themselves pakistani & hoist pakistani flags ?????

Rubbish. The anti Indian sentiment in Kashmir is restricted to Srinagar and the Valley, and even then, the cry is for Independent Kashmir and not Pakistan.

 

[DeathInvader]

Sorry, but I think you're the one who needs to hold on.
JF-17 is better than the F-16 blk15 in certain areas, such as radar specifications, medium range air to air missiles, helmet mounted targeting, data-link. Mainly electronics. In other areas it is inferior, for example thrust to weight ratio and airframe strength. You can check the sources for this info.
NOWHERE have I said JF-17 is at par with the F-16 blk50, this is grossly inaccurate. The APG-68v9 radar is far superior to the Chinese radar in the JF, large gap in thrust to weight ratio, for example. However with some modifications to the airframe (which are planned) and upgrades to the electronics (also planned), the JF could potentially become comparable to the blk50 and even blk 60 in many areas.
Again, NOWHERE have I stated FC-20 will be better than Rafale, F-18SH. I am not among that group of forummers.

FC-20 and MiG-35/MKI, lets not go there because that is off-topic. Please open a new thread in the mil. aviation section. Sorry, but calling FC-20 comparable to these aircraft is NOT an outlandish claim, especially considering it may be fitted with Chinese TVC engines and a European AESA radar.

I don't know why you are talking about the MKI crash, I haven't said anything about it. I also don't know if what you say is true that it was testing the brahmos ALCM. What I do know is that according to reports, the Ra'ad ALCM (search it up) has already been tested on a PAF Mirage ROSE fighter and the Mirage did not crash as far as we know. According to some respected journalists with inside contacts, there is a new variant under development of the Ra'ad ALCM designed especially for the JF-17, apparently it will be slightly smaller for easy carriage under the JF's wing hardpoints. I can't confirm the latter, but if a Mirage III/V can carry a Ra'ad, what makes you think the JF and FC-20 cannot? Both are far more powerful than a Mirage III/V.

Show me the claims I have made and then later cannot recollect making them. Of course some claims cannot be substantiated, it is up to you whether you believe them or not. Doesn't bother me either way.

Apologies for calling people names, but in certain posts people have crossed a line. I try as best I can to counter with valid points, but as you know, some posters are not interested in valid points.



You said China would use propoganda and claim "their air force is the best in the world" if their air force was destroyed. I proved that they already do "propoganda" that their air force is at least a generation behind the USA and they can't yet even make decent turbofan jet engines.

I don't care about Chinese news blackouts RE Tienanmen, I don't care whether you want to believe those sources or not. Facts are facts and you don't seem to be interested in them.

No bad taste in my mouth, on the contrary it looks like you're the one who is bitter and suffering from some kind of inferiority complex after making such statements about China. Keep calling me kid, it is amusing. Again, like I said, just another internet idiot.

BTW I found a piece of Indian war propoganda you might like to know about. See this thread:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/27250-paf-mirages-war.html
Apparently the InAF claimed they downed 6 of the PAF's Mirage III fighters. The PAF later lined up 21 of its 22 Mirage III (the missing one was in maintenance) and a photo was taken, later published in a Western magazine. If you think China are the only ones who would do such propoganda in times of war, you are very wrong. Everybody does it.


I never called entire Indians and Russians stupid at all, I have utmost respect for Indians due to my religion and other personal things I will not talk about.

Just search on how much of the HQ series China manufactures, and we will understand who is stupid and who is an idiot. Do you understand how much effort goes into designing and building these things? How do you think a Chinese fellow would feel after that Russian kid (yes, kid) belittles their efforts by showing a picture of an old anti-aircraft gun?

If some Russian and Indian posters can belittle the Chinese in such a way, I cannot call them stupid idiots for doing so? Is that right?


Thank you for your input, I look forward to reading more of your useful contributions.

If JF-17 is Better than F-16 than trust me LCA is hell lot better than F-22!

COmparing F-16 and Jf-17 is

F-16 has worldwide user an China has dumped the faulty JF-17 To Pakistan.....

The Only Fighters that IAF is worried about s F-16........

 

[s90]

If JF-17 is Better than F-16 than trust me LCA is hell lot better than F-22!

COmparing F-16 and Jf-17 is

F-16 has worldwide user an China has dumped the faulty JF-17 To Pakistan.....

The Only Fighters that IAF is worried about s F-16........

JF-17 is comparable to F-16 A/B.

 

[boxer_B]

Intel centres to keep tabs on China's missiles, navy - India - NEWS - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: Stung by China's aggressive posturing, including its deployment of missiles in Delingha near Tibet, and other increasingly hostile
activities in India's neighbourhood, the Cabinet Committee on Security is considering a proposal to set up separate centres for nuclear or missile intelligence and maritime security. In fact, with strong backing by National Security Advisor M K Narayanan, the CCS, which is still smarting under the Chinese `aggression', is all set to give the go-ahead to the proposal.

The inability of central intelligence agencies like RAW, DIA and IB in keeping a tab on recent deployment of intermediate range missiles like DF-4 and reports that Beijing might station ICBMs in the Delingha region seem to have alarmed authorities into action. The medium-range ballistic missiles which are already deployed in Delingha can hit targets that are almost 3,000 kilometres away. China has also built several launch pads for nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles in the same region.

"The entire northern India and parts of central India can be hit from there. The way these missiles have been deployed, they can only hit four countries -- Nepal, Pakistan, Myanmar and India. And because the other three countries are not potential adversaries of China, there is obviously deep concern here about China's intentions and you can say that this is one way of addressing this concern,'' said a source, adding that the separate centres for missile and maritime intelligence will initially comprise officers from central intelligence agencies. Till now, the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) has worked as the nodal agency responsible for the functioning of all internal and external intelligence agencies.

A security official admitted that the need for separate missile intelligence centres was primarily because of China's expanding missile development programme. The new agency will not just gather information but also analyse information available with central agencies like DIA, RAW, IB and NTRO and recommend action to counter any adverse development.

"This agency, once it comes into being, will deal exclusively with nuclear and missile intelligence. The agencies carrying out this work now function under the JIC but the committee is not exclusively for missile and nuclear intelligence,'' he added. The new agency will function directly under the National Security Council and will be accountable for all inputs from the neighbouring region on developments related to missile and nuclear technology.

This proposal was first mooted by a joint task force on intelligence headed by former JIC chief S D Pradhan. Two other members of the task force are former IB director P C Haldar and scientist Roddam Narasimha. The task force was constituted at the behest of Narayanan himself and it has submitted its report to the government.

Similarly, a separate centre for maritime intelligence is also likely to be cleared by CCS. This centre will work as pivot around which all intelligence agencies involved in maritime security will function.

 

[boxer_B]

Now, space cell to keep an eye on China's plans - India - NEWS - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: In view of the looming Chinese threat to its communication network and other space assets, India on Tuesday announced the setting up
of its Integrated Space Cell (ISC).

The cell is designed to counter the Chinese Military Space Systems that comprises anti-satellite weaponry and a new class of heavy-lift and small boosters acting as catalyst in the next generation satellite warfare system.

The Space Cell will be put under the command of the Integrated Defence Services Headquarters and will act as a single window for integration among the armed forces, the department of space and the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO).

Announcing this after inaugurating the two-day Unified Commanders' Conference in the Capital, defence minister A K Antony on Tuesday expressed concern at the "offensive counter space systems and an improved array of military space systems emerging in our neighbourhood".

The commanders' conference, focusing on various issues pertaining to better coordination amongst the three Services, was attended among others by chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee and navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta, air Chief Marshal F H Major, army chief General Deepak Kapoor, defence secretary Vijay Singh, Chief of Integrated Service Command Lt Gen HS Lidder, commanders and other senior officers.

Antony said that engaging China in a dialogue and trying to resolve outstanding issues is the right way ahead.

"Foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee's recent visit to China was a step in this direction," he said and expressed optimism that the agreement between the two countries on peace and tranquility and the ongoing confidence building measures and MoU on defence cooperation would help achieve this purpose.

The defence minister also announced the setting up of a Defence Informatics Centre (DIC) on the lines of the National Informatics Centre. A dedicated system, it will cater to the e-governance needs of the armed forces, the defence ministry and other associated organizations. The DIC would be designed in a manner where it would be difficult for outside forces to penetrate and cripple the network. This would help completely insulate India's military communication network

Wonder if this agency is made based on Indian prediction of Chinese aggression in 2017?? Such moves by dragon were taken into account during simulation warfare

 

[TaimiKhan]

MFI, Vande, BSF, man u people are totally on dope , am now sure with ur such ridiculous posts.

Kindly check the international media and the images of protests being done by the kashmiri people. Kashmiri people ascended to india with their consent??????

what the **** are then the kashmiris crying about now ????

why have u 700,000 troops in kashmir ?????

why amnestry international cries about indian state atrocities in IHK???

Why u had to send your forces to srinagar in 1948 ?????

why is there a UN resolution on a plebiscite for the kashmiri people ????

why did nehru in a public gathering of thousands of kashmiris had promised to let kashmiri people decide for what they want ???? Ever by chance seen that footage of his promise to kashmiri people ???? i dont think so.

If somehow u people get the chance & have the decency (which i doubt), do check about the things mentioned above before posting with ridiculous remarks.

these aren't in our history books, they are on international print & electronic media & international history books. Not may be in ur guys history books.

I should stop now, after ur above posts arguing with you guys is just like talking to a stone.

 

[agastya]

what the **** are then the kashmiris crying about now ????

what percentage of Kashmir are you talking about sir.
isnt it that to your knowledge that more 65% of the total electorate participated in the general election held in j&k whose fairness was acknowledged by the international oragnisations..therbey showing there belief and commitment in the in the democratic and constitutional institution..

why have u 700,000 troops in kashmir ?????

in order to maintain peace and harmony in the region and to prevent proxy war initiated by external institution and so called non state actors from other country(whatever you wish to read from it).

why amnestry international cries about indian state atrocities in IHK???

wow was amazed to hear from a person who is turning blind eye to the reports of human right violation in your own state here is alikn to the source ..look this is neutral.......
Allegations of Serious Human Rights Violations in Balochistan Must Be Investigated
Human rights campaigners are not terrorists - Red Pepper

Why u had to send your forces to srinagar in 1948 ?????

simple after s.o.s from then ruler Mr Hari Singh after he had acceded to india and requested to thwart the tribal attacks on Kashmir.

why is there a UN resolution on a plebiscite for the kashmiri people ????

why did nehru in a public gathering of thousands of kashmiris had promised to let kashmiri people decide for what they want ????

oof !!!didnt had time to type that much so just quoting from Wikipedia hope you enjoy reading it!!!!


Indian view

Indian viewpoint is succinctly summarized by Ministry of External affairs, Government of India[49][50] —

* India holds that the Instrument of Accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to India, signed by the Maharaja Hari Singh (erstwhile ruler of the State) on 26 October, 1947, was completely valid in terms of the Government of India Act (1935), Indian Independence Act (1947) and international law and was total and irrevocable.[50]

* The Constituent assembly of Jammu and Kashmir had unanimously ratified the Maharaja's Instrument of Accession to India and had adopted a constitution for the state that called for a perpetual merger of the state with the Union of India. India claims that this body was a representative one, and that its views were those of the Kashmiri people at the time.

* United Nations Security Council Resolution 1172 tacitly accepts India's stand regarding all outstanding issues between India and Pakistan and urges the need to resolve the dispute through mutual dialogue and does not call for a plebiscite.[51]

* United Nations Security Council Resolution 47 cannot be implemented since Pakistan failed to withdraw its forces from Kashmir which was the first step in implementing the resolution.[52] Now the resolution is obsolete since the geography and demographics of the region have been permanently altered.[53] The resolution was passed by United Nations Security Council under Chapter VI of the United Nations Charter.[54] Resolutions passed under Chapter VI of UN charter are considered non binding and have no mandatory enforceability as opposed to the resolutions passed under Chapter VII.[55]

* India does not accept the two-nation theory that forms the basis of Pakistan and argues that Kashmir, despite being a Muslim-majority state, is in many ways an "integral part" of secular India.

* The state of Jammu and Kashmir was provided significant autonomy in the Article 370 of the Constitution of India.[56]

* India points to the recent state-assembly elections held in phases in November–December 2008. High turnouts were seen in spite of calls for boycott by Kashmiri separatists.[57] The pro-India National Conference party emerged as the winner.[58]

Additional Indian viewpoint regarding the broader debate over the Kashmir conflict include:

* India believes that the insurgency and terrorism in Kashmir is deliberately being fueled by Pakistan to create instability in the region.[59] The Government of India has repeatedly asked the international community to declare Pakistan as a sponsor of terrorism.[60][61][62][63]

* Pakistan is trying to raise anti-India sentiment among the people of Kashmir by spreading false propaganda against India.[64] According to the state government of Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistani radio and television channels deliberately spread "hate and venom" against India to alter Kashmiri opinion.[65]

* In a diverse country like India, disaffection and discontent are not uncommon. Indian democracy has the necessary resilience to accommodate genuine grievances within the framework of our sovereignty, unity and integrity. Government of India has expressed its willingness to accommodate the legitimate political demands of the people of the state of Jammu and Kashmir.[49]

* India has asked United Nations that it should not be leave unchallenged or unaddressed claims of moral, political and diplomatic support for terrorism, which were clearly in contravention of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 which is a Chapter VII resolution that makes it mandatory for member states to not provide active or passive support to terrorist organizations.[66][67] Specifically, it has pointed out that the Pakistani government continues to support various terrorist organizations, such as Jaish-e-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Taiba, in direct violation of this resolution.[68]

* India points out at various reports by human rights organizations condemning Pakistan for the lack civic liberties in Pakistan-administered Kashmir.[64][69] According to India, most regions of Pakistani Kashmir, especially Northern Areas, continue to suffer from lack of political recognition, economic development and basic fundamental rights.[70]

* All differences between India and Pakistan including Kashmir need to be settled through bilateral negotiations as agreed to by the two countries when they signed the Simla Agreement on July 2, 1972.[71]