India asks Japan if it’s interested in Rs 50,000 crore submarine project

[AUSTERLITZ]

Forget the early Type-93 SSN, there is an improved version thas been produced. Type-95 is even better.

Have you missed the news about the recent start of the Type-55 cruiser construction that is reckoned to carry over 100 VLS tubes?

Point still stands type 095 is stated to be no better than akula.Besides when we can detect the sub and we can due to avenue of approach,data sharing with USN and advanced sensors on our new ships(kamorta/talwar/kolkata/shivalik -most with 2 helicopters) plus the advanced P8I -then sub is sitting duck.Even now there have been articles where IN officials went on record saying they could pick up every chinese sub that entered.They were worried abt increasing chinese activity,but detecting them is not a problem.
And so what?Even if u carry a gazillion missiles on type 055 u can launch a limited number usually 16-32 at once vs saturation attacks.Brahmos plus klub plus harpoon/exocet coming from air,sea and underwater plus diesel subs lying in wait...not much a ship can do about it -because all it needs is one hit -ur thousands of miles away from home and in the IN's backyard .You can't take out the unsinkable aircraft carrier andaman.Mig-29ks,sukhois and p-8is plus tu-142s can launch relentless attacks non stop from there.
PLAN better worry abt enormous USN and japanese fleet breathing down its neck instead of interfering in our affairs.IN is top dog in IOR -deal with it.Get used to it.Only force capable of changing that is USN.

 

[UKBengali]

Point still stands type 095 is stated to be no better than akula.Besides when we can detect the sub and we can due to avenue of approach,data sharing with USN and advanced sensors on our new ships(kamorta/talwar/kolkata/shivalik -most with 2 helicopters) plus the advanced P8I -then sub is sitting duck.Even now there have been articles where IN officials went on record saying they could pick up every chinese sub that entered.They were worried abt increasing chinese activity,but detecting them is not a problem.
And so what?Even if u carry a gazillion missiles on type 055 u can launch a limited number usually 16-32 at once vs saturation attacks.Brahmos plus klub plus harpoon/exocet coming from air,sea and underwater plus diesel subs lying in wait...not much a ship can do about it -because all it needs is one hit -ur thousands of miles away from home and in the IN's backyard .You can't take out the unsinkable aircraft carrier andaman.Mig-29ks,sukhois and p-8is plus tu-142s can launch relentless attacks non stop from there.
PLAN better worry abt enormous USN and japanese fleet breathing down its neck instead of interfering in our affairs.IN is top dog in IOR -deal with it.Get used to it.Only force capable of changing that is USN.

Lol - so you need US help to take on PLAN?

China will send more than one Type-55 into the Indian Ocean. A Chinese CSG could comprise a carrier with several escorts and a couple of Type-95 SSNs. Very powerful force that would not be too far off what the US can field.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Lol - so you need US help to take on PLAN?

China will send more than one Type-55 into the Indian Ocean. A Chinese CSG could comprise a carrier with several escorts and a couple of Type-95 SSNs. Very powerful force that would not be too far off what the US can field.

Nah,but it always helps when they share data on location of chinese subs.Then our boys don't even nee dto find them,just sink the submarine.Less work for us.
And do you think our surface fleet will be one ship - We can send dozens of frigates and destroyers into the area in response.Only a couple type 95?We can answer with a dozen kilo/scorpene plus akulas.
As for carriers -lo we can play that game as well.
And we have our unsinkable aircraft carrier in andaman.Our sukhois,mig 29ks and p-8Is will rain hell from above day and night and nothing chinese ships or subs can do about it.
USN's main power is 10 CBGs EACH with large number of AEGIS escorts.Plus above all huge numbers of stealthy SSNs that chinese can't even imagine in their dreams.If chinese battlegroup comes through the bottleneck area all the way from china to meet its doom near andaman,we will gladly oblige.Brahmos and klub say hello.

 

[UKBengali]

Nah,but it always helps when they share data on location of chinese subs.Then our boys don't even nee dto find them,just sink the submarine.Less work for us.
And do you think our surface fleet will be one ship - We can send dozens of frigates and destroyers into the area in response.Only a couple type 95?We can answer with a dozen kilo/scorpene plus akulas.
As for carriers -lo we can play that game as well.
And we have our unsinkable aircraft carrier in andaman.Our sukhois,mig 29ks and p-8Is will rain hell from above day and night and nothing chinese ships or subs can do about it.
USN's main power is 10 CBGs EACH with large number of AEGIS escorts.Plus above all huge numbers of stealthy SSNs that chinese can't even imagine in their dreams.If chinese battlegroup comes through the bottleneck area all the way from china to meet its doom near andaman,we will gladly oblige.Brahmos and klub say hello.

Dude - China is unlikely to be interested in venturing into the India Ocean with CSGs till 2025-2030 time period. They are likely to have several aircraft carriers and dozens of modern cruisers and destroyers by then.

If India uses its land based assets against China, then nothing stopping China from using its many thousands of land-based ballistic and cruise missiles as well. Andaman can be turned to a waste ground if China wanted to.

My point stands that China soon will be able to roam pretty freely in the Indian Ocean as the US does now.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Dude - China is unlikely to be interested in venturing into the India Ocean with CSGs till 2025-2030 time period. They are likely to have several aircraft carriers and dozens of modern cruisers and destroyers by then.

If India uses its land based assets against China, then nothing stopping China from using its many thousands of land-based ballistic and cruise missiles as well. Andaman can be turned to a waste ground if China wanted to.

My point stands that China soon will be able to roam pretty freely in the Indian Ocean as the US does now.

No chance really.By 2030 our economy will be enormous as well -so will our navyChina can never employ its full strength in IOR,our numerous bases,geographic advantage and numerical advantage in IOR makes a chinese intrusion into IOR in force largely suicide.Each sukhoi can carry 3 brahmos mini.Mig-29k two.P-8I harpoons.Scorpenes exocets.Plus each kolkata 16 brahmos.Each of our frigates 8 brahmos/klub.Kilo klubs.
Just a squadron of sukhois can unleash a salvo of 64 brahmos at a time.After a few hundred brahmos/klub/harpoons are unleashed from air,sea and underwater -there will be nothing left.We enjoy numerical advantage below water and air superiority above as our carriers can be supported by land based aircraft from south india/east india and andaman.If u really think a modern fleet can survive without air cover ur deluded.
And if china employs ballaistic missiles so can we.Infact we can sink all chinese oil tankers going from gulf to china primarily through malacca- and then it will hurt.You want to take gloves off,no problem.

 

[UKBengali]

No chance really.By 2030 our economy will be enormous as well -so will our navyChina can never employ its full strength in IOR,our numerous bases,geographic advantage and numerical advantage in IOR makes a chinese intrusion into IOR in force largely suicide.Each sukhoi can carry 3 brahmos mini.Mig-29k two.P-8I harpoons.Scorpenes exocets.Plus each kolkata 16 brahmos.Each of our frigates 8 brahmos/klub.Kilo klubs.
Just a squadron of sukhois can unleash a salvo of 64 brahmos at a time.After a few hundred brahmos/klub/harpoons are unleashed from air,sea and underwater -there will be nothing left.We enjoy numerical advantage below water and air superiority above as our carriers can be supported by land based aircraft from south india/east india and andaman.If u really think a modern fleet can survive without air cover ur deluded.
And if china employs ballaistic missiles so can we.Infact we can sink all chinese oil tankers going from gulf to china primarily through malacca- and then it will hurt.You want to take gloves off,no problem.

Big deal how large the Indian economy gets as the China economy is likely to grow at a similar rate till 2030

The gap between now and 2030 will increase in favour of the Chinese as by 2030 China will have cutting-edge technology and will be able to produce everything for its weapons systems. It gets the best technology at the lowest possible price. No more need to import engines from Russia any-more

India, on the other hand, will still be reliant on imports of key subsystems like engines. It will have to spend large funds to buy key components from abroad and the best Western systems will not be sold for any price.

India sinking Chinese commercial ships ? LOL - China will sink oil tankers for India as well. Unlike China, India cannot afford to go without oil imports via ships for too long. China has plenty of domestic reserves and has secure pipelines from Russia and central Asia. India, OTOH, has no pipes over land as it does not get along with Pakistan.

 

[45'22']

Big deal how large the Indian economy gets as the China economy is likely to grow at a similar rate till 2030

The gap between now and 2030 will increase in favour of the Chinese as by 2030 China will have cutting-edge technology and will be able to produce everything for its weapons systems. It gets the best technology at the lowest possible price. No more need to import engines from Russia any-more

India, on the other hand, will still be reliant on imports of key subsystems like engines. It will have to spend large funds to buy key components from abroad and the best Western systems will not be sold for any price.

India sinking Chinese commercial ships ? LOL - China will sink oil tankers for India as well. Unlike China, India cannot afford to go without oil imports via ships for too long. China has plenty of domestic reserves and has secure pipelines from Russia and central Asia. India, OTOH, has no pipes over land as it does not get along with Pakistan.

By 2016 India is supposed to cross the Chinese growth rate
And we are supposed to grow at a steady pace because of our young population

So the gap will decrease not increase
I m not saying India will overtake the Chinese in the near future but 2030 or 2050 will be better than 2015 for India

 

[xyxmt]

Japan doesnt want to irk China anymore

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Big deal how large the Indian economy gets as the China economy is likely to grow at a similar rate till 2030

The gap between now and 2030 will increase in favour of the Chinese as by 2030 China will have cutting-edge technology and will be able to produce everything for its weapons systems. It gets the best technology at the lowest possible price. No more need to import engines from Russia any-more

India, on the other hand, will still be reliant on imports of key subsystems like engines. It will have to spend large funds to buy key components from abroad and the best Western systems will not be sold for any price.

India sinking Chinese commercial ships ? LOL - China will sink oil tankers for India as well. Unlike China, India cannot afford to go without oil imports via ships for too long. China has plenty of domestic reserves and has secure pipelines from Russia and central Asia. India, OTOH, has no pipes over land as it does not get along with Pakistan.

Foolish really,to sink indian oil ships u need to operate in gulf,arabian sea and indian ocean-the indian navy's backyard.India sits on china's oil supply line,not the other way round.Look at the map.

 

[Alphacharlie]

Big deal how large the Indian economy gets as the China economy is likely to grow at a similar rate till 2030

The gap between now and 2030 will increase in favour of the Chinese as by 2030 China will have cutting-edge technology and will be able to produce everything for its weapons systems. It gets the best technology at the lowest possible price. No more need to import engines from Russia any-more

India, on the other hand, will still be reliant on imports of key subsystems like engines. It will have to spend large funds to buy key components from abroad and the best Western systems will not be sold for any price.

India sinking Chinese commercial ships ? LOL - China will sink oil tankers for India as well. Unlike China, India cannot afford to go without oil imports via ships for too long. China has plenty of domestic reserves and has secure pipelines from Russia and central Asia. India, OTOH, has no pipes over land as it does not get along with Pakistan.

Sir - your responses are Most ENTERTAINING....

Please dont stop the music.....

 

[UKBengali]

Foolish really,to sink indian oil ships u need to operate in gulf,arabian sea and indian ocean-the indian navy's backyard.India sits on china's oil supply line,not the other way round.Look at the map.

You may want to check out the thread where the PLAN has stated its intention to control the IOR in the future.

You don't seriously believe that the soon to be world's largest economy will allow a country like India to hold its trade routes hostage do you? If you do, then you do not understand how geopolitics work. Just look at PLAN future intent with the start of construction of the 12,000 tonne Type-55 cruiser. These ships will dwarf anything that Indian can procure for the next 2 decades at least.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

You may want to check out the thread where the PLAN has stated its intention to control the IOR in the future.

You don't seriously believe that the soon to be world's largest economy will allow a country like India to hold its trade routes hostage do you? If you do, then you do not understand how geopolitics work. Just look at PLAN future intent with the start of construction of the 12,000 tonne Type-55 cruiser. These ships will dwarf anything that Indian can procure for the next 2 decades at least.

No one is holding their trade hostage,its USN that holds PLAN trade hostage more than us.We can just cause a lot of damage as well.And no matter how much china huff and puff ,fact is they can only deploy a part of their force in IOR whereas we can deploy nearly our whole strength,thus we don't need to match them ship for ship at all.In subs PLAN will always be outnumbered as only SSN can operate in IOR.PLAN Can't do anything to andaman really sort of bombarding with ICBMs which will lead to nuke war anyway.From andaman our aircraft will crush any chinese naval task force day and night assault with salvo after salvo.The size of a ship won't make a difference,a heavy torpedo from a SSK lying in wait in ambush or an underwater klub or a single brahmos is enough to end ur 12,000 tonne cruiser.And we have hundreds of brahmos,soon to be supplanted with hypersonic brahmos 2...surface ships are no problem for IN.Becuase we can attack them from air -land based sukhois and P-8I with brahmos and harpoons plus mig-29ks from carriers,we can atatck from surface - our very large and modern surface fleet armed to the teeth with brahmos and klub.And from underwater -klubs from akulas and kilo,exocet from scorpene ,plus heavy torpedos.No task force operating so far away from home,coming through a bottleneck area ,and without air superiority has much chance when attacked from 3 dimensions.

PLAN can't control the IOR because it doesn't control geography,and because india isn't vietnam.We can't match them ship for ship-true.But we can easily smash the limited numbers they can send to IOR-our economy is well capable of maintaining that deterrence posture.So better forget controlling IOR,can't even control SCS,taiwan or senkaku.Japanese and us navy laughing in its face.Till now PLAN's combat experience is bullying viet fishing boats.If china tries to make an enemy out of india then they better be prepared for the consequences.An indian alliance with USA,Japan,australia,ASEAN -an asian NATO.Encirclement of china and end of all its dreams.USA and japan are asking for such an alliance,we ahve refused till now.Our continued refusal will depend upon china's behaviour.Try any antics in IOR and prepare for total encirclement.

 

[Jit]

By 2030, really! The only realistic scenario and the best China can hope for is at least equal status in S.China and commercial nav rights for fee in Indian waters. This is to do with the upcoming $6T write off on acct of Chinese local govt borrowings from desperately cross-held Chinese banks. The money is gone, ghost cities are costing money to maintain, African plays have failed, energy hedging advantages neutralized ...Japan is strengthening relations to connect up the US, Japan, Aussie, India nexus beyond mere info sharing and Defence.

The so called opening of the 1.6b consumer market of China has failed. Come 2022, China will be borrowing money for non-capital expenditure. Forget Defence enlargement.