India as a great power: Know your own strength

[Chinese-Dragon]

Something interesting from Chinese media.
China raises education spending, but more needs to be done - Xinhua | English.news.cn

P.S. No offence to Chinese members, I know China's GDP size is huge.

Read this please:

BBC News - How China is winning the school race

 

[INDIC]

Read this please:

BBC News - How China is winning the school race

Oh CD I already know China puts more fund on education sector because of huge GDP. Didn't you read my quote.

 

[walle]

Oh CD I already know China puts more fund on education sector because of huge GDP. Didn't you read my quote.

China is far more efficient at providing education to the masses. Chinese literacy rates reflects this and the international Pisa test results are a testament. Chinese focus is on higher education. The US spends a lot on education but their top tiered academic are disproportionately foreign migrants, their public schooling system is terrible.

So it's how you spend, not how much.

 

[janon]

China is far more efficient at providing education to the masses. Chinese literacy rates reflects this and the international Pisa test results are a testament. Chinese focus is on higher education. The US spends a lot on education but their top tiered academic are disproportionately foreign migrants, their public schooling system is terrible.
So it's how you spend, not how much.

For one thing, that's simply not true. The public schooling system in US has flaws, but it still delivers a better education than most other countries. The "quality of education" one would receive at a public school in US is leagues ahead of what one would receive from a typical govt school in India. (I don't know about China, so won't comment.)

Also, about your point about foreign migrants - foreign students are usually still in the minority compared to Americans in every university I know. YEs, they have a large proportion of foreign students than China does, and there are many reasons for that (English language and deliberate national policies come to mind). However, that is their strength and not their weakness, since these foreing students bring money into the education system, and then they go on to work and settle in the US, becoming americans (a lot of them, at least). In effect, they attract brains from around the world (including china), train them and then use their brainpower to further drive their economy.

Anyway it is pointless to compare the education sector of USA with that of developing countries like India or China. Americans already have a huge technological base, and high living standards. The social dynamics of each of these countries is very different. We need to ask what needs to be done for each country, rather than compare with another, as far as education goes.

 

[Backbencher]

Been reading some Churchill speeches?

No its an Indians speech that comes from the heart

 

[muse]

India as a great power: Know your own strength | The Economist

India is poised to become one of the four largest military powers in the world by the end of the decade. It needs to think about what that means

The main threats facing India are clear: an unstable, fading but dangerous Pakistan; a swaggering and intimidating China. One invokes feelings of superiority close to contempt, the other inferiority and envy. In terms of India’s regional status and future prospects as a “great power”, China matters most; but the vexatious relationship with Pakistan still dominates military thinking.

A recent attempt to thaw relations between the two countries is having some success. But tension along the “line of control” that separates the two sides in the absence of an agreed border in Kashmir can flare up at any time. To complicate things, China and Pakistan are close, and China is not above encouraging its grateful ally to be a thorn in India’s side. Pakistan also uses jihadist terrorists to conduct a proxy war against India “under its nuclear umbrella”, as exasperated Indians put it. The attack on India’s parliament in 2001 by Jaish-e-Mohammed, a terrorist group with close links to Pakistan’s intelligence service, brought the two countries to the brink of war. The memory of the 2008 commando raid on Mumbai by Lashkar-e-Taiba, another terrorist organisation, is still raw.

Pakistan’s nuclear capabilities are a constant concern. Its arsenal of warheads, developed with Chinese assistance, is at least as large as India’s and probably larger. It has missiles of mainly Chinese design that can reach most Indian cities and, unlike India, it does not have a “no first use” policy. Indeed, to offset the growing superiority of India’s conventional forces, it is developing nuclear weapons for the battlefield that may be placed under the control of commanders in the field.

read more @link.

Excellent - Indian friends are lambs being prepared for the slaughter - the bait is "you are strong, you should exercise your power" Indian friends say, China is the threat, Yet the article is truthful about who the Indian really think the real threat is -- but the West offers succor, "take them both on and we'll support you"

Indian friends are invited to once again revisit the thread "Usual but Necessary" -- While sane voices point out that together Pakistan India and China are the center of the world, with unparallelled strength and that the enemy is lack of vision.

 

[janon]

Indian friends are invited to once again revisit the thread "Usual but Necessary" -- While sane voices point out that together Pakistan India and China are the center of the world, with unparallelled strength and that the enemy is lack of vision.

Look, given a choice between living in peace with a neighbor and living in hostility/war, only a deranged fool would choose the latter. Leaving aside China for a moment, it seems to me that India and Pakistan cannot be at peace until the Kashmir issue is solved. As long as Pakistanis have an ambition of either taking Kashmir from India, or supporting "freedom fighters", and as long as India is in no mood to let either of that happen, how is it logically possible for the two nations to be completely at peace with each other?

It is sad that the two countries have to have this unresolved issue for such an absurdly long time. French, british, germans and other European powers that have been fighting each other for centuries, but since WW2 they have learnt to live in peace - and now look how developed and prosperous western Europe is.

But it is an undeniable fact that most Pakistanis want a certain outcome on Kashmir that is simply unpalatable for most Indians. Even on this forum, you can see many senior members and think tanks claim that they want Pakistan to keep supporting "the Kashmir cause" until the outcome is in their favor. Indians on the other hand regard Kashmir as integral to India, and letting go of even one inch of it is unthinkable to most. So with this fundamental disconnect, with Pakistanis willing to keep the Kashmir issue alive forever, and Indians determined to keep Kashmir forever, can there really be complete peace between the two countries? Other than the sort of "peace" we have today?

 

[muse]

Look, given a choice between living in peace with a neighbor and living in hostility/war, only a deranged fool would choose the latter. Leaving aside China for a moment, it seems to me that India and Pakistan cannot be at peace until the Kashmir issue is solved. As long as Pakistanis have an ambition of either taking Kashmir from India, or supporting "freedom fighters", and as long as India is in no mood to let either of that happen, how is it logically possible for the two nations to be completely at peace with each other?

It is sad that the two countries have to have this unresolved issue for such an absurdly long time. French, british, germans and other European powers that have been fighting each other for centuries, but since WW2 they have learnt to live in peace - and now look how developed and prosperous western Europe is.

But it is an undeniable fact that most Pakistanis want a certain outcome on Kashmir that is simply unpalatable for most Indians. Even on this forum, you can see many senior members and think tanks claim that they want Pakistan to keep supporting "the Kashmir cause" until the outcome is in their favor. Indians on the other hand regard Kashmir as integral to India, and letting go of even one inch of it is unthinkable to most. So with this fundamental disconnect, with Pakistanis willing to keep the Kashmir issue alive forever, and Indians determined to keep Kashmir forever, can there really be complete peace between the two countries? Other than the sort of "peace" we have today?

Agree 100% percent that it is absurd that this issue continues to function as a cage for all three parties, the Pakistanis , Indians and Kashmri -- lets not attempt to resolve it here -- let the officials know that you want a resolution, they will figure out the rest

 

[Bang Galore]

Excellent - Indian friends are lambs being prepared for the slaughter - the bait is "you are strong, you should exercise your power" Indian friends say, China is the threat, Yet the article is truthful about who the Indian really think the real threat is -- but the West offers succor, "take them both on and we'll support you"

Indian friends are invited to once again revisit the thread "Usual but Necessary" -- While sane voices point out that together Pakistan India and China are the center of the world, with unparallelled strength and that the enemy is lack of vision.

You are wrong. No matter how much Indians imagine their strength to be, there is almost no enthusiasm to use that strength. There is a reason why Indians(for the most part-only a couple of exceptions) have never ventured outside of India in the last 5000 years. It is simply not in us. It is why Indians regardless of their statements against Pakistan when there are incidents in India are still quick to welcome any rapprochement. The countries of SE asia fear China, never India inspite of the fact that India's military projection capability is greater than China's in the IOR. Also true of the west.


China is a great power in every sense of the word. It has both the ability as well as a desire to be a great power. India for all its fits of anger, has no such desire. Indians want to be known as a great power but without necessarily having to do anything that might be required.

 

[muse]

You are wrong. No matter how much Indians imagine their strength to be, there is almost no enthusiasm to use that strength. Indians want to be known as a great power but without necessarily having to do anything that might be required.

Perhaps you need to rethink what Great may mean ?? -- Waging idiot senseless wars, is not what makes nations great.

 

[AUz]

@Aeronaut I will rather die hungry than let my country, my motherland taken over by enemies. I am ready to sacrifice everything, so that my coming generation remains in freedom for what our forefathers fought for.

I know we have 450 million poor people, but we have 1.2 billion Free Indians. Self Respecting India.

We will get out of this condition. I, as an Indian will make sure to do my part.

We may die of hunger, but we won't sell our freedom or let our sovereignty breached.

Oye tu itnay dramay kab se krnay lag para?

No one is taking over india...no one can. Even a super hyper-power like the mighty United States can not physically "take over" a country like Iran for just 20 years or so, who do you think will think of 'taking over' a mammoth country like india?

The age of global empires is over...Today, imperialism comes in different forms (Economic imperialism, cultural imperialism etc)..and india is gladly accepting the new 21st century imperialism by West (Unlike Russia, China, Islamic World , and some S.American countries!) ...So better keep your these rants to yourself and work hard to develop your country...

"Self-Respect" is when you keep your own culture and evolve your culture under the influences of globalization..but maintain your indigenous cultural outlook (E.g, Japan, China, Islamic World, Western World, Russia etc)..

I was showing that new song (Lat lag gayi) to one of my friends here in USA and he insultingly laughed and said "Hah! india is getting too Westernized" ... Even I felt kinda mad at him from inside, even though I aint even indian...

Your fellow compatriots here feel 'proud' in telling us Pakistanis and Chinese that how indians are better at speaking English than us...and you rant here about your freedom and military spending and blah blah?

Your sovereignty won't be breached by any surrounding military...it'd be breached by Wall Mart that will kill your farmers...

'Western influence' is normal thing..as all civilizations influence each other...but gladly "accepting" western imperialism at the expense of your own culture is something unique to india...

 

[Cyberian]

Salaam to all the Muslims,



I think India is a great military power like North Korea. Both starve their own populations to impress rest of the world with their military showboating.

Hey, all the best.

Salaam to all the Muslims.

 

[muse]

Really moving post AuZ - I like the honesty and the power of it.

 

[Bang Galore]

Perhaps you need to rethink what Great may mean ?? -- Waging idiot senseless wars, is not what makes nations great.

Wasn't talking about war, just that Indians have no real stomach for aggressive behavior(direct provocation excepted) even when warranted by national interest. India is unlikely to wage war, senseless or otherwise on its own accord.

Btw, I am not one of those who believes that India must be aggressive in dealing with the world. I'm not even one of those who believes that India must necessarily be in direct conflict with Pakistan or China. I'm simply a realist who sticks with what can be achieved rather than hold on to pipe dreams (even if it is those with a bigger vision will eventually make a breakthrough, whenever that is)

 

[janon]

Oye tu itnay dramay kab se krnay lag para?

No one is taking over india...no one can. Even a super hyper-power like the mighty United States can not physically "take over" a country like Iran for just 20 years or so, who do you think will think of 'taking over' a mammoth country like india?

The age of global empires is over...Today, imperialism comes in different forms (Economic imperialism, cultural imperialism etc)..and india is gladly accepting the new 21st century imperialism by West (Unlike Russia, China, Islamic World , and some S.American countries!) ...So better keep your these rants to yourself and work hard to develop your country...

"Self-Respect" is when you keep your own culture and evolve your culture under the influences of globalization..but maintain your indigenous cultural outlook (E.g, Japan, China, Islamic World, Western World, Russia etc)..

I was showing that new song (Lat lag gayi) to one of my friends here in USA and he insultingly laughed and said "Hah! india is getting too Westernized" ... Even I felt kinda mad at him from inside, even though I aint even indian...

Your fellow compatriots here feel 'proud' in telling us Pakistanis and Chinese that how indians are better at speaking English than us...and you rant here about your freedom and military spending and blah blah?

Your sovereignty won't be breached by any surrounding military...it'd be breached by Wall Mart that will kill your farmers...

'Western influence' is normal thing..as all civilizations influence each other...but gladly "accepting" western imperialism at the expense of your own culture is something unique to india...

Oh please. We have managed to keep our cultural identity for the past 5000 years, despite suffering invasion after invasion. If the forced attempts of central Asians couldn't change our identity and character, you can bet that a few walmarts across India wont either. (And about the economic side of it, it is farmers who are actively lobbying FOR walmart and retail FDI, and it is traders who are arguing against it. You got that factually wrong.)

Besides, we don't have one single "culture", we have hundreds. The culture of tamils or biharis or marathas are all very very distinct from each other. All these cultures have existed long before present day European cultures began, and will probably outlast them, if history is anything to go by. Our identity (whether of the Vedic/post Vedic cultures or Dravidian and other cultures) all existed before ancient romans or greeks or Egyptians. While those civilizations all perished in the sands of time, ours has endured, despite the constant attacks from without. So I wouldn't worry much about television or walmart putting an end to five millennia of indomitable cultural endurance. Foreign influences and ideas have only enriched us, never destroyed us.

In the words of pakistan's national poet and conceptual founder, in India's most famous patriotic song (tarana-e-hind or saare jahaan se accha),

YUNAAN - O - MISR - O - ROMAA SAB MIT GAYE JAHAAn SE
AB TAK MAGAR HAI BAAQI NAAM - O - NISHAAn HAMAARAA!

KUCHH BAAT HAI KE HASTI MIT - TI NAHIEn HAMAARI
SADYOn RAHAA HAI DUSHMAN DAUR - E- ZAMAAn HAMAARAA!

(The Egyptian, roman and greek civilizations have all vanished from the earth. But our civilization's imprints endure on an on. There is something about our existence that we cannot be effaced, though the cycle of time has forever been inimical to us.)

So Indians are not worried about walmart or a new song "lat lag gayi" or whatever destroying our culture. Sorrry, but our culture is far too old, far too strong and far too proud to be erased by such trivialities.