India and Pakistan: Back on the Brink

[A.Rahman]

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An Indian soldier watches Pakistani troop movments across the border


Wednesday, Dec. 26, 2001

India and Pakistan&#39;s fifty-year hot-and-cold-running war is coming to a boil again. Sources tell CNN that Pakistan, saying it was only responding to India&#39;s movements, mobilized its entire army — even calling up some recent retirees — and put it on high alert Wednesday. Both sides have sent reinforcing troops and short-range missile batteries to military positions along the two nuclear nations&#39; mountainous border.

The ongoing conflict between the countries over the disputed territory of Kashmir, which claimed two Indian army soldiers Tuesday as shooting erupted once again, is not new — two of the three wars between the countries since 1947 have been over the region. But Sept. 11, and George W. Bush&#39;s declared war against global terrorism, has given it new life. India blames the Dec. 13 suicide attack on its parliament on two terrorist groups it says are based in Pakistan — and tacitly supported by the Pakistani government.

Pakistan disputes that, and this week has frozen the assets of one of the accused groups, the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, and put the leader of the other, Jaish-e-Mohammed, in "preventative detention." But Islamabad says it will not take further action until India provides evidence linking the groups to the parliament attack that killed 14 people, including five of the attackers. Both groups deny responsibility.

And both countries&#39; leaders are talking tough. "We don&#39;t want war but war is being thrust upon us," Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee said Wednesday. "And we will have to face it." Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf on Tuesday declared his nation&#39;s army "fully prepared and capable of defeating all challenges." And the U.S. now finds its critical ally in the war against terrorism accused of that which it came to Afghanistan to fight — state-sponsored terrorists — and itself in danger of getting caught in the middle of a decades-old conflict fraught with apocalyptic possibilities.

Source: Time Magzine

 

[A.Rahman]

did India ever provided an evidence

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by A.Rahman@Jan 18 2006, 06:24 PM
did India ever provided an evidence

[post=5474]Quoted post[/post]​

They don&#39;t have to.
With such a highly militarised region, incidents do occur.
But since we both have nuclear arms, the possibility of any future full scale war is next to nothing.
It would lead to MAD, and neither side can afford it.

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Indeed both sides dont want to engage, its almost like the Cold War&#33; Both of the countries dont want to engage into war, because they know the results will be more than just devastating.

Our nation currently thinks that it is protected and no one can harm it. Imagine U.S bombing Pakistan with its bombers, how will Pakistan be able to detonate a bomb on U.S? I know its stupid, and off topic&#33; lol

We dont have long range missiles.

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by mysterious@Feb 3 2006, 06:42 AM
Our nation currently thinks that it is protected and no one can harm it. Imagine U.S bombing Pakistan with its bombers, how will Pakistan be able to detonate a bomb on U.S? I know its stupid, and off topic&#33; lol

We dont have long range missiles.

[post=5877]Quoted post[/post]​

Offtopic indeed, but I&#39;ll give a reply anyway :com:
Its quite unlikly that US would turn against us, but incase they do we don&#39;t need LRBM&#39;s to harm USA.
Our missiles can reach US&#39; main ally in the ME....Israel :wink:

 

[A.Rahman]

Originally posted by Neo@Feb 3 2006, 06:14 AM
Offtopic indeed, but I&#39;ll give a reply anyway :com:
Its quite unlikly that US would turn against us, but incase they do we don&#39;t need LRBM&#39;s to harm USA.
Our missiles can reach US&#39; main ally in the ME....Israel :wink:

[post=5887]Quoted post[/post]​

nuking Isreal? that can start WW3

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by A.Rahman@Feb 3 2006, 02:02 PM
nuking Isreal? that can start WW3

[post=5891]Quoted post[/post]​

In theory yes, it would.
But so would any assault by US to Pakistan.
We are nuclear equipped.
What if we start losing ground to US or any other agressor and nukes are our last option.....?
What would you do?

 

[EagleEyes]

I believe as far as Pakistan goes in case of violating our air space, or violating our land, we aren&#39;t very good in monitoring that, or we just dont care

However if it is a damaging attack, or some what like it. Then this is a lot different. Pakistan will do anything it is capable of to deal with such situation.

 

[Sid]

Damaging attack isn&#39;t really the issue here. The issue here is weak defenses and radar network coverage which is just plain bad. Indian aircraft come and go at their will, voilate our airspace, take pictures of sensitive sites, gather intel and easily fly back to give Indian planners a head-start. Pakistan really needs to do something about this.

Note: Anyways, the original article on which this thread is based up on is quite old and Pakistan &#39;n&#39; India are hopefully on a road towards ever-lasting peace.

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Sid,

Are you really serious and know about this? I dont really think so. If IAF ever has violated our air space is only few times, and that too close to the border or in touch with the border. They can&#39;t come close to important facilities like nuclear facilities which i doubt they even know where they are.

Most of the time PAF uses F-7s to scramble jets so i do agree at some point that if some Mig-25, Mig-23, or Su-30 comes in it will be hard to treat with them. Our radars CAN pick them up, and it will get more advanced after we recieve Erieye, also VERA radar on the lease is not that bad after all.

F-16s which we have i doubt are capable enough to scramble any IAFs fighter. Even Mig-21 Bison (upgraded BVR) will be able to shoot it down with no problem. F-16 has no BVR, however Mirage III/V can do the tricks but they are designed mainly for ground support.

 

[Jag]

Originally posted by Zeeshan S.@Feb 24 2006, 12:11 PM
Sid,

Are you really serious and know about this? I dont really think so. If IAF ever has violated our air space is only few times, and that too close to the border or in touch with the border. They can&#39;t come close to important facilities like nuclear facilities which i doubt they even know where they are.

Most of the time PAF uses F-7s to scramble jets so i do agree at some point that if some Mig-25, Mig-23, or Su-30 comes in it will be hard to treat with them. Our radars CAN pick them up, and it will get more advanced after we recieve Erieye, also VERA radar on the lease is not that bad after all.

F-16s which we have i doubt are capable enough to scramble any IAFs fighter. Even Mig-21 Bison (upgraded BVR) will be able to shoot it down with no problem. F-16 has no BVR, however Mirage III/V can do the tricks but they are designed mainly for ground support.

[post=6157]Quoted post[/post]​

Well we are getting off the topic but it has happened

I remember "Miro" Indian Pilot flies Mirage 2000, most of you would know him, he mentioned once that both airforces voilate airspace, rarely any of this country is loud about it, most of the time we never point finger to any body. and he did that too, number of times.

The reason they do this, is to check the readyness to each other, air defence and ground support, also get signals and sitings for where the SAM and rader installation are and how they are picked up, mostly the intruder is never fired upon and is warned and pilot turns back, etc and then again there could be number of reasons. So its no reason to get carry away that India can across or Pakistan came across.

The issue is different if the warning are ignored, then there is clear indication of airspace voilance and it could result in anything.

 

[Bull]

[Mod Edit: Post deleted, irrelevant one-liners are useless. If you have anything of substance to discuss further on, feel free to post.]

 

[Samudra]

Cold Start anybody?

 

[RAPTOR]

Tuesday, April 18, 2006http://javascript<b></b>:;
Indian military kicks off nuclear warfare conference

NEW DELHI: Indian military commanders were meeting on Monday to assess the capability of the country&#8217;s million-plus army to survive nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) warfare, officials said. The week-long commanders&#8217; conference would also review progress in the military&#8217;s ambitions to equip troops with the latest electronics warfare systems, an army spokesman said. Senior military scientists along with the chiefs of the army, navy and airforce were attending the annual event, launched by Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee, for the first time. &#8220;The focus is on our military&#8217;s preparedness to fight in environments of NBC warfare and the progress our scientists have made so far to provide protective technologies,&#8221; one commander said. India and Pakistan came dangerously close to their fourth war in 2002 sparking worldwide worries of a possible atomic holocaust on the South Asian subcontinent. Officials said scientists attending the closed-door meet would make a presentation on the development of battlefield command posts, anti-radiation clothing, and reinforced tanks and armoured carriers capable of withstanding NBC attacks. &#8220;We have achieved a lot but still we have miles to go in this direction,&#8221; the commander said. A paramilitary unit tasked with protecting key installations last month beat the army in the race to set up a specialised NBC force by announcing plans to raise two specialised battalions by the end of the year. The army spokesman, meanwhile, said the commanders would also hold talks on &#8220;future infantry soldiers as a system&#8221; &#8212; in line with an ambitious military blueprint.. The blueprint aims to include radar, sensor-guided helmets, night vision devices and global positioning systems in the battle gear of Indian troops. &#8220;Training of army personnel on information technology for organisational adaption and meeting future requirements will be another important topic that will be deliberated,&#8221; he said. The conference is to be followed next month by military exercises involving 60,000 frontline troops and war jets along Pakistan&#8217;s borders in northern Punjab state. AFP

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er...ahem, india is a peace loving country and wants peace and no wars with Pakistan.

 

[Zeeshan S.]

I dont see anything amusing RAPTOR. Do you think this place is PDF? Stop making it a joke.

As far as the topic is concerned. If the tensions rise again, there will definately be no war as i know, no nation is too stupid a war when both have nuclear weapons. Only S.U and U.S.A had the capability to erupt wars in third world countries. Pakistan and India can't do it, and can't fight the proxy wars.

When the tensions rises its most likely that Indian soldiers will mass at the border, after wasting resources and some soldiers getting casualties through accidents they will return home as the tensions will decrease.

Compare to Pakistan only few troops will be setup for defensive position.