India admits blunder in ‘most-wanted’ list

[harshad]

And after all that they Criticize us for freeing Hafiz Saeed. Knowing too well that both Indian and Pakistani court system is British based and dismisses circumstantial evidence. Everything they have provided so far has not been enough to actually successfully convict the alleged “masterminds” that are living in Pakistan

Joke aside, its such a scandal that any Indian that gets the chance to speak on air or has access to web is all hyped up about Pakistan harbouring and protecting the Mumbai terrorist masterminds and crying a river and bleeding heart over the free movement of Daud Ibrahim and Hafiz Saeed yet so far in the thread I hardly see any protest from any Indian that why this guy was given bail and also allowed to stay/ live in the city which has seen the worse terrorist atrocity in current times?

to know why he is out on bail one has to see the evidence in front of the court,even if he is out on a bail he has to go to police station daily to show his face

 

[Irfan Baloch]

to know why he is out on bail one has to see the evidence in front of the court,even if he is out on a bail he has to go to police station daily to show his face

many thanks for that my friend. our courts use the similar law of evidence and they don’t see how they can keep the Indian Alleged masterminds behind bars or approve the handover of them (without even any mutual agreement among countries) to India.

don’t take it as if I am second guessing the ability and freedom of the Indian Justice system, far from it, I am just shocked how that person is allowed to live there and yet find his name in the list being handed over to Pakistan?

try explaining that to many people in rest of the world that lost their loved ones in that terrorist attack. I know i wont be able to convince them.

it just gives away the zeal and excitement of point scoring at Pakistan specially after the Abbotabad operation. why loose the moment? I hope someone at the ministry takes the fall for this blunder.

Well merely admitting the mistake is not enough, its an international matter and someone has to bite the bullet and resign.

 

[PoKeMon]

I just caught one...my boss has been terrorizing me lately...


My friend, the accuracy or inaccuracy of names on the list is not the only concern here.
The evidence or lack of it, can change the outcome from Guilty to not Guilty.


The fact that this particular person is not in a prison cell but is out on a bail and living with his family is also worthy of note.
It begs the question why he has not been convicted and punished till date?
Reason is the requirement of law in way of witnesses and other evidence which is supposed to carry its weight in a court of law.
He is accused of a heinous crime and yet a free man, complicated is it not?

Now add another layer to this scenario, which is decades of hostility between our countries, and you think it is as simple a matter as Pakistan handing over someone?

I am restating the obvious here, but even if a person on this list is a baddy...does not mean he can even be convicted in India, leave alone Pakistan.
It implies that this shall be a really complicated and slow process and the accused may not be handed over even if found and tried in Pakistan due to lack of evidence or proven innocence.

If anyone of these guys is guilty of anything, i hope they get what they deserve from the Almighty Allah; however in the world we live in there is no guarantee that they can be convicted even if guilty.
At the end of the day, this just proves that action on this list may not be as simple a matter as made out to be.
Punishment can only be given if there is conviction.

To be proven guilty or conviction is altogether a different regime. First the accused has to be booked under law and court trial has to be done.
At one end you are saying that accused gets successful in getting bail even after doing horrendous of crime because of inadequate evidence and at the other you are afraid to bring the fugitives to justice.

Ok I understand the complexity of the case and its legalities. Its really hard to handover one person to another nation just based on few so called insufficient evidence. But I think the law should apply on pakistani nationalist not on the criminals of indian nationality pakistan is harboring. What stops you to hand over Dawood to India?

 

[PoKeMon]

my respect to you too, sir

I am merely mirroring the esteemed media analysts and think tanks that grace the Indian channels with their wonderful scripts about the capabilities of ISI that even make Ian Fleming’s bone role with envy.

The effect of selective reading and watching huh....
Brutal killing of innocent unarmed civillians never add badges to ISI pride and professionalism. We are not deluded with ISI bogey.

My group designation has nothing to do with that. We mere mortal Pakistanis feel the same way you are feeling when outlandish claims are made by Mr ChukrumBukrum & Co and then they fall flat on their face like this one. Why deny me the right to return the favour eh? Biggest democracy? Have some heart please?

Why is it so hard to digest that mistakes happens but what its matter is how you correct and learn from them. Indians do mistake, Indians point it out, Indians accept it and indians apologise. Where something flat fall on any ones face?

And yes we are the biggest democracy with a free media otherwise the world would never be able to even know the whole goof up leave alone criticising.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Why is it so hard to digest that mistakes happens but what its matter is how you correct and learn from them. Indians do mistake, Indians point it out, Indians accept it and indians apologise.

good man, you are moving in the right direction.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Ok I understand the complexity of the case and its legalities. Its really hard to handover one person to another nation just based on few so called insufficient evidence. But I think the law should apply on pakistani nationalist not on the criminals of indian nationality pakistan is harboring. What stops you to hand over Dawood to India?

the answer to your question in the last sentence, please refer to your own in red at the begining

good day sir

 

[PoKeMon]

the answer to your question in the last sentence, please refer to your own in red at the begining

good day sir

Dawood is not a pakistani national and doesn't comes under its law rather he is a indian fugitive. You know what your government cant even admit that he is in pakistan because if they say so they would be entitled to hand over him to India where he belongs. Complexity comes for pakistani citizens like Hafiz Saeed not for indian terrorist pak is harboring.

But I believe my argument was above your comprehension. So good thinking again sir
good day

 

[notsuperstitious]

Dawood is not a pakistani national and doesn't comes under its law rather he is a indian fugitive. You know what your government cant even admit that he is in pakistan because if they say so they would be entitled to hand over him to India where he belongs. Complexity comes for pakistani citizens like Hafiz Saeed not for indian terrorist pak is harboring.

But I believe my argument was above your comprehension. So good thinking again sir
good day

Dawood is also an internationally designated terrorist.

As I said earlier, a mistake made by Indians, acknowledged by Indians and corrected by Indians is an excuse for not acknowledging the mistakes being made by Pakistan, let alone correcting them. Pakistan is suffering from terrorism too, I fail to see how they can not sympathise with the innocent civilian victims just because they are Indians.

God fearing, you bet!

 

[PoKeMon]

Dawood is also an internationally designated terrorist.

I wonder why its hard to comprehend for some here.

 

[S.M.R]

Dawood is also an internationally designated terrorist.

As I said earlier, a mistake made by Indians, acknowledged by Indians and corrected by Indians is an excuse for not acknowledging the mistakes being made by Pakistan, let alone correcting them. Pakistan is suffering from terrorism too, I fail to see how they can not sympathise with the innocent civilian victims just because they are Indians.

God fearing, you bet!

We always feel sorry for anyone who is innocent target of any act, irrespective of the nationality. However, when the blame game starts from indians, as they think ISI is behind every event that occur in india, conversion of that sympathy into anger is natural.

 

[AAtish]

At least now Indians will cool down a bit..

1. The person who was convicted and was claimed to be Pakistani, lives in Mumbai
2. The FO did not even bother to do a final check before making the list global
3. RAW didn't even "second looked" the list before handing it over to FO..

I am just visualizing the person's reaction to the list..

Oye pa.. mera naam idhar kyoon?.. leme call police.. main to roz sign kar kay aata hoon.. unhain itna bhi nahi pata.. sign kiss cheez ka laitay hain..

I think India should start redeveloping their RAW and Foreign Office from scratch.. It is a BIG humiliation for India..

Man.. Hilarious.. They don't even know who their OWN people are..

Well done!!

 

[All-Green]

And after all that they Criticize us for freeing Hafiz Saeed. Knowing too well that both Indian and Pakistani court system is British based and dismisses circumstantial evidence. Everything they have provided so far has not been enough to actually successfully convict the alleged “masterminds” that are living in Pakistan

Joke aside, its such a scandal that any Indian that gets the chance to speak on air or has access to web is all hyped up about Pakistan harbouring and protecting the Mumbai terrorist masterminds and crying a river and bleeding heart over the free movement of Daud Ibrahim and Hafiz Saeed yet so far in the thread I hardly see any protest from any Indian that why this guy was given bail and also allowed to stay/ live in the city which has seen the worse terrorist atrocity in current times?

Salaams

I agree with what you are saying regarding the courts and legal requirements and this is all i want the dear members to understand.

However Hafiz Saeed is a public figure and Dawood has not been publicly seen by anyone in Pakistan and is not a Pakistani national.
There is a difference here between the two individuals.

Many characters in the underworld of Karachi are not seen or heard of since years but there is a chance they are alive.
If Dawood is really present in Karachi then he is hiding in one of the hardest places to look for.
Karachi's underworld is huge and extremely dangerous.
To get to a mafia boss's whereabouts, you will have to ruffle a lot of feathers and take on many gangs.
To play with fire in an already volatile and violent city which is always read to erupt is something which is extremely difficult.
It was only done once in the 90s by rangers when they cut down the gangs in Karachi, to this day many people resent the actions but i supported it.

And if he was tied with AQ then he could be anywhere in the region including Afghanistan (not blaming anyone but just predicting the possibilities)
A person who is worth 6-7 billion USD can instigate a lot of trouble and it is certainly not in our interest to protect him since AQ is our enemy and he is their friend.
Most likely he shall be caught/eliminated in future if he is traced by Pakistan in our country, but it is not as simple as handing him over.

 

[jahangeer yousaf]

apni baglan saaf naye karday tay dosray di baglan day nazar rakhday ....... i mean to say ... they don't work on their armpit and always keep an eye how long armpit pakistan has

idiot another example .......... bacha baghal main dandora shahar main ............

mumbai police is making fun of interior minister hahahahah and he is a confused personality like rehman malik both should be fired

 

[Irfan Baloch]

the Indian courts should ban this guy from the city something that is called "Terri par"
atleast to respect the dead, the blundering Bureaucracy should fire the person who approved the list without even checking the facts.
But nothing so far has come out.
Pakistani foreign office should bring this matter up in the next bilateral meetings whenever India repeats its demands to hand over the Mumbai “masterminds”

 

[All-Green]

To be proven guilty or conviction is altogether a different regime. First the accused has to be booked under law and court trial has to be done.
At one end you are saying that accused gets successful in getting bail even after doing horrendous of crime because of inadequate evidence and at the other you are afraid to bring the fugitives to justice.

Ok I understand the complexity of the case and its legalities. Its really hard to handover one person to another nation just based on few so called insufficient evidence. But I think the law should apply on pakistani nationalist not on the criminals of indian nationality pakistan is harboring. What stops you to hand over Dawood to India?

My friend,
Irfan mentioned Dawood Ibrahim by mistake since his case is not similar to Hafiz Saeed, not because of nationality but because he is not seen in Pakistan.

I can tell you that if he is here, he is hiding somewhere and certainly was never seen out in the open by Pakistanis.
If Dawood is in Karachi then please know that Karachi's underworld is as dangerous as Mumbai and many local dons are still wanted by Pakistan and not found and apprehended yet.
If his buddies in AQ have found him another location, then knowing his resources and cash reserves, he could have gone anywhere else.

Hafiz Saeed is a different case.
We need evidence to convict him and believe me we even detained him without any evidence when India accused him, but that cannot be indefinite and we had to release him when the courts grilled the government for holding someone without evidence!
I am no fan of Hafiz Saeed and wish him hellfire if he has been responsible for terrorism in Mumbai or anywhere else, however at the end of the day the guilt has to be proven.
Even on many other levels, i dislike this guy...but this is not about mine or anyone else's strong likes or dislikes...it is about law and justice which sadly require concrete evidences.

Thanks to the justice system and many requirements, the Imam of lal Masjid still walks in Pakistan openly.
I hate the guy and wish that he burns in hell, however sadly it was the courts which let him off the hook and by their definition, he was not guilty since it was his brother who was the armed rebel...blah blah blah.
I want him to be hanged for creating a fitna and causing unnecessary violence and bloodshed in Pakistan, but if you hang someone while the law does not consider him guilty, this can be more detrimental since it shall erase the line between a government and a militant.

The person (Mohammad Aqeel alias Dr. Usman) who was suspected of the horrible Islamabad Marriott bombing attack in which many 100s of Pakistani innocents were martyred (that too at the time of opening of fast in the holiest month of Ramadan) was actually caught and grilled by Police and was tried by anti terrorism courts.
Eventually he was let off the hook, when there was no evidence except some tip offs and very strong suspicions of agencies.
This rascal then went on and planned a bloody attack at GHQ itself in which many officers and jawans were martyred.
Certainly not in Pakistan's favor to let him off the hook, but you cannot punish without establishing guilt in courts.

The bottom line is that while i hope that Pakistan and India improve their relationship via concrete steps; this list should not become another impasse between the countries, holding them back from entering into any meaningful agreements in the present and future.