In solidarity with the Hindu/Indian posters here on Defence.PK

[lightoftruth]

leftist liberal person as possible in the mould of say, Mani Shankar Aiyar, Navjot Singh Sidhu, or Arundhati Roy

Not many self respecting "liberals" in this country prefer these moulds.
Besides why do people assume they are so important that they need to justify their ideology on a pakistani forum ? To whom is one justifying ?
Why is it even required ?
You expect a country built out of hindu- muslim divide to understand diversity within "pagan" Hinduism ?
Besides all this these so called liberals sell their speech about poor people's rights for few thousand rupees on a daily basis.
India was a natural right tilt society people are getting awake from a long sleep.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If you all want to create an echo chamber where all Hindu Indians supposedly support Narendra Modi, be my guest.

It's something the moderators are actively discouraging, pointing out that generalizations about an entire community are not acceptable. It will, however, take time and repetition to get this to sink in. It would also help if we had more Indian Hindus who weren't Sanghis so that posters could see a different point of view.

Please keep in mind that it isn't just this forum. Most social media and news sites on the web are swamped by comments from Indians who appear to validate the stereotype you've said that many Pakistani members on this forum have about Indian Hindus. When that is the only 'type of Indian Hindu' they are exposed to, attitudes will harden.

On your end, please keep reporting posts that do make these kinds of generalizations and the moderator team, which has now CLEARED the reported post backlog (HURRAH and many thanks to our new moderators for putting in the effort), will act as soon as possible. Please continue to refrain from responding to the trolls, on either side.

 

[ChennaiDude]

As some of you would know me by now. I'm as anti-Hindutva as it gets. I am strongly opposed to Narendra Modi, BJP, RSS, and all their collective organizations. Not only at an ideological level, but also in many practical matters like who I prefer socializing with in real life. Although many of my friends and contacts in India are what would clearly fall under the category of "Sanghi," it is something I didn't choose about them. You can't really choose all your friends in the real world according to their ideology. Anyone who does that (my salutes to them), but I can't be as mahaan as such individuals.

I am as leftist liberal person as possible in the mould of say, Mani Shankar Aiyar, Navjot Singh Sidhu, or Arundhati Roy, etc. But, that does not mean I endorse everything they say or do, and they would endorse everything of mine. I have also been affiliated with Congress party of India for a very long time, but only to a certain faction within the party which is directly connected to Sonia Gandhi ji and Rahul Gandhi himself. Again, they will not endorse any of my statements or positions (why should they, anyone who thinks that they should, is going nuts!) My views are absolutely my own and not really representative of the party.

So, what are my actual positions, and far left do I lean? This is easy to answer. I am opposed to all the coercive measures being taken against Muslims in India, including CAB/NRC etc. I had contributed my own money for Shaheen Bagh protests (although I am not in India) as I think it was a very just cause. I also opposed the scrapping of Article 370 by Modi government in Kashmir. It was a violation of the rights of Kashmiris, which is protected as per UN Charter of 1948. This unilateral move by Modi has destabilized the entire region greatly.

I support the right of plebiscite for the Kashmiris, only because I have studied this problem very deeply (also, during my MA degree in international relations long ago). I think their demands are valid, and should be protected as per Indian Constitution as well as international law agreements. For the Indian posters here, I absolutely do not support Pakistan-based militants in Kashmir Valley. But I am also a realist who like to see other persons' point of view. I believe there is a war going on in Kashmir, and in wars, it is stupid to think that only your country and government is telling the truth, and the other side isn't. Someone here from Pakistan mentioned to me about the good deeds of Hafiz Saeed in that country,and I was willing to give it open thoughts. That doesn't mean I endorse Hafiz Saeed.

The point I am trying to make is very simple: just one single person (Hindu or Muslim) can be incredibly complex if they have a past academic history, or experiences living and working in many countries. I have been fortunate enough to travel/work/and live in more than 60 countries in my life including US/UK/many European countries/CIS countries/Africa/ME/SE Asia (that's a real number, and I don't recall the exact number of countries I have been to, without having to look up.) I believe travel broadens your mind a lot. That could be why some of my views sound as how you all guys like to put it, "different." But let me assure you, I am 100% Indian, and a Hindu at that (although I don't follow the religion, and completely non-practicing). I don't even believe in God although I have studied all major religions including Islam and Christianity.

Sorry about this long essay (I would myself hate to read my own speech so much). But I am getting sick and tired of all the "troll" accusations coming at me. It's derailing every single thread where I liek to participate. Today itself I got trolled by one jackass who seems to be a Pakistani based in USA. It was very mean-spirited of him to waste another person's time in such a crude manner. Although I have ignored him now, it has left a bad taste in my mouth related to this forum. I came to participate in discussions, and maybe I will do in future. But I am not going to suffer a single troll like that one again.

--

Despite such a long rant about me, the intention of this essay is concerning others. It is more a form of communication to all the moderators and active users from both the countries. You need to realize one very important thing: not all Hindu posters from India think alike. Your website is becoming an echo chamber where only a certain partisan view of Indian Hindus is being reported. That, all Hindus are Sanghis, and hate Muslims, and want to genocide them. That is simply not correct. Hindus aren't this giant monolith in India who all think exactly alike. Some of us hate Narendra Modi more than Kashmiris do.


If you all want to create an echo chamber where all Hindu Indians supposedly support Narendra Modi, be my guest. I will want nothing to do with that. Another Indian Muslim user just asked me whether I am connected with Rishi, a troll of BJP IT cell, here is my answer. "Yes, I know him personally. I have met him once or twice." But that don't mean squat.

Having said this, I have met some really cool posters here, from both countries, who can understand the fact that Indian Hindu posters can have diverse opinions. And they respectfully state their positions, and we have some nice discussions.

So, basically another part of my complaint is against some of the Pakistani posters here who generalize all Indian Hindus as Sanghis, or radical Hindutvadis. Well, no one is stopping you from thinking that as it is really convenient, and we all love convenience in our lives, don't we? Rather than be confronted by something which shocks our world view (many Indians have worse notions about Pakistanis, so I am willing to give you a pass).

But, then it really reflects ignorance on your part, especially if you are unwilling to change your views. You know what happens with stuck cement? If you have not met amazing persons from India like me (I'm not the only one I am absolutely sure, there are many), it's your loss. No one from India,, Hindu or otherwise, owes you any explanation. Just like none of you owe any explanations to Hindutvadi trolls of India. It is up to each individual whether or not they want to learn new views of the other side with an open mind. No one will/can force you to do it.

I will just keep this post handy just in case someone in future blabbers about my "false flag" status, whether I am "trolling", or whatever. I don't owe anyone any explanation.Nor does any Hindu Indian poster here. Everyone can have their own independent views. Not only in this forum but in real life as well. Get used to it if not already.

The only question is: are you willing to accept and embrace the diversity of opinions in your personal life? I hope you do.

@waz @xeuss @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

The key to me here is I try to take in only the positives from all religions- I am a Hindu by birth but respect all religions. To me being a Hindu is a way of life and GOD to me is very personal.

I am ready to follow the principles/pillars of Christianity or Islam as long as it does not force me to convert to practice bits and pieces of the positives in each of them. But if I am asked to forced to accept one over the other then we have a problem. As per the below Prophet Muhammad-PBUH quote- ("Non- Muslim" can be interchanged to "Muslim" but still to me the message is the same.

 

[Blacklight]

Yes. As long as that diverse opinion is the same as my diverse opinion. j/k

But thanks for standing up to the Sanghis. You are indeed the few left in India today.

When Joe's meds kick in, he is sensible too.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

But thanks for standing up to the Sanghis. You are indeed the few left in India today.

Now, that's where I have a disagreement with you. It's just not a "few." You need to look harder, of course. I see the glass half-full, yours is half-empty on this one though. So, it's just a matter of perspective.

 

[Secularindian]

I never said that all Indians on PDF have to be Pro-Modi. God knows there are lot many anti-modi Indians here.but none of them refer to others as "You Indians"

Exactly One Pakistani Poster Here accuse Me of being Sanghi
Saying To Me That You Don't Look Goan Christian

I Told Him I am a ethnic Konkan First He didn't get it

He Don't Know Konkani Is most Spoken language in Goa

Like He Knows how Goan Christian Are And there EthnicityHe thought We are Anglo Indian
Its Like Indians Generalizing Lahorians or Mujahirs of Karachi
Many Posters Here Are clueless About Multi-ethnic & Traditional diverse Culture of india An Subsects

They Don't Realize How Kerala Differ From Andhra
or Andhra From telangana
or Tamils differ From Kannada

He Generalize I Should be Anti Indian

For Matter of Fact All my Family is Congress voters for generations

I am a Indian citizen

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Exactly One Pakistani Poster Here accuse Me of being Sanghi
Saying To Me That You Don't Look Goan Christian

I Told Him I am a ethnic Konkan First He didn't get it

He Don't Know Konkani Is most Spoken language in Goa

Like He Knows how Goan Christian Are And there EthnicityHe thought We are Anglo Indian
Its Like Indians Generalizing Lahorians or Mujahirs of Karachi
Many Posters Here Are clueless About Multi-ethnic & Traditional diverse Culture of india An Subsects

They Don't Realize How Kerala Differ From Andhra
or Andhra From telangana
or Tamils differ From Kannada

He Generalize I Should be Anti Indian

For Matter of Fact All my Family is Congress voters for generations

I am a Indian citizen

Mirror this view. You meet a lot of Goans in shipping cruises. No one mistakes them for anything other than Indians. But they all consume beef and pork, so the Indian trippers are confused. They mistake you for other South Asian nationalities/Latin Americans etc.

 

[Cliftonite]

Exactly One Pakistani Poster Here accuse Me of being Sanghi
Saying To Me That You Don't Look Goan Christian

I Told Him I am a ethnic Konkan First He didn't get it

He Don't Know Konkani Is most Spoken language in Goa

Like He Knows how Goan Christian Are And there EthnicityHe thought We are Anglo Indian
Its Like Indians Generalizing Lahorians or Mujahirs of Karachi
Many Posters Here Are clueless About Multi-ethnic & Traditional diverse Culture of india An Subsects

They Don't Realize How Kerala Differ From Andhra
or Andhra From telangana
or Tamils differ From Kannada

He Generalize I Should be Anti Indian

For Matter of Fact All my Family is Congress voters for generations

I am a Indian citizen

It was I who accused you. And I still accuse you loool. Goan Christians don't talk like you do, they talk in an Anglo Indian way like padamchen who is a Parsi. Only bhakts type like you do.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It was I who accused you. And I still accuse you loool. Goan Christians don't talk like you do, they talk in an Anglo Indian way like padamchen who is a Parsi. Only bhakts type like you do.

You're doing it again ...

 

[Shantanu_Left]

It was I who accused you. And I still accuse you loool. Goan Christians don't talk like you do, they talk in an Anglo Indian way like padamchen who is a Parsi. Only bhakts type like you do.

I would disagree. He's indeed what he says he is. Anglo-Indians are a very different subset of Christians in India. They are descendants of mixed marriages of Indians with Europeans of mostly British and Irish ancestry. In present India, they mostly live in the Kolkata, Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai etc.and major cities only. Sure some may live in Goa as well. But, most of have migrated abroad. Russell Peters, a famous Canadian comedian of Anglo-Indian origin, Derek O'Brien, an MP, Leander Paes, a tennis player, and a few others.

Goan Christians are very different. Some of them may have Portuguese ancestry but most are indigenous to Goa. They even speak Marathi or Konkani as mother tongue.

Anglo-Indians only speak English as their first language at home. Their cultures are more aligned with the British and Irish people. They are most comfortable with White people abroad compared to other Indians.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

As some of you would know me by now. I'm as anti-Hindutva as it gets. I am strongly opposed to Narendra Modi, BJP, RSS, and all their collective organizations. Not only at an ideological level, but also in many practical matters like who I prefer socializing with in real life. Although many of my friends and contacts in India are what would clearly fall under the category of "Sanghi," it is something I didn't choose about them. You can't really choose all your friends in the real world according to their ideology. Anyone who does that (my salutes to them), but I can't be as mahaan as such individuals.

I am as leftist liberal person as possible in the mould of say, Mani Shankar Aiyar, Navjot Singh Sidhu, or Arundhati Roy, etc. But, that does not mean I endorse everything they say or do, and they would endorse everything of mine. I have also been affiliated with Congress party of India for a very long time, but only to a certain faction within the party which is directly connected to Sonia Gandhi ji and Rahul Gandhi himself. Again, they will not endorse any of my statements or positions (why should they, anyone who thinks that they should, is going nuts!) My views are absolutely my own and not really representative of the party.

So, what are my actual positions, and far left do I lean? This is easy to answer. I am opposed to all the coercive measures being taken against Muslims in India, including CAB/NRC etc. I had contributed my own money for Shaheen Bagh protests (although I am not in India) as I think it was a very just cause. I also opposed the scrapping of Article 370 by Modi government in Kashmir. It was a violation of the rights of Kashmiris, which is protected as per UN Charter of 1948. This unilateral move by Modi has destabilized the entire region greatly.

I support the right of plebiscite for the Kashmiris, only because I have studied this problem very deeply (also, during my MA degree in international relations long ago). I think their demands are valid, and should be protected as per Indian Constitution as well as international law agreements. For the Indian posters here, I absolutely do not support Pakistan-based militants in Kashmir Valley. But I am also a realist who like to see other persons' point of view. I believe there is a war going on in Kashmir, and in wars, it is stupid to think that only your country and government is telling the truth, and the other side isn't. Someone here from Pakistan mentioned to me about the good deeds of Hafiz Saeed in that country,and I was willing to give it open thoughts. That doesn't mean I endorse Hafiz Saeed.

The point I am trying to make is very simple: just one single person (Hindu or Muslim) can be incredibly complex if they have a past academic history, or experiences living and working in many countries. I have been fortunate enough to travel/work/and live in more than 60 countries in my life including US/UK/many European countries/CIS countries/Africa/ME/SE Asia (that's a real number, and I don't recall the exact number of countries I have been to, without having to look up.) I believe travel broadens your mind a lot. That could be why some of my views sound as how you all guys like to put it, "different." But let me assure you, I am 100% Indian, and a Hindu at that (although I don't follow the religion, and completely non-practicing). I don't even believe in God although I have studied all major religions including Islam and Christianity.

Sorry about this long essay (I would myself hate to read my own speech so much). But I am getting sick and tired of all the "troll" accusations coming at me. It's derailing every single thread where I liek to participate. Today itself I got trolled by one jackass who seems to be a Pakistani based in USA. It was very mean-spirited of him to waste another person's time in such a crude manner. Although I have ignored him now, it has left a bad taste in my mouth related to this forum. I came to participate in discussions, and maybe I will do in future. But I am not going to suffer a single troll like that one again.

--

Despite such a long rant about me, the intention of this essay is concerning others. It is more a form of communication to all the moderators and active users from both the countries. You need to realize one very important thing: not all Hindu posters from India think alike. Your website is becoming an echo chamber where only a certain partisan view of Indian Hindus is being reported. That, all Hindus are Sanghis, and hate Muslims, and want to genocide them. That is simply not correct. Hindus aren't this giant monolith in India who all think exactly alike. Some of us hate Narendra Modi more than Kashmiris do.


If you all want to create an echo chamber where all Hindu Indians supposedly support Narendra Modi, be my guest. I will want nothing to do with that. Another Indian Muslim user just asked me whether I am connected with Rishi, a troll of BJP IT cell, here is my answer. "Yes, I know him personally. I have met him once or twice." But that don't mean squat.

Having said this, I have met some really cool posters here, from both countries, who can understand the fact that Indian Hindu posters can have diverse opinions. And they respectfully state their positions, and we have some nice discussions.

So, basically another part of my complaint is against some of the Pakistani posters here who generalize all Indian Hindus as Sanghis, or radical Hindutvadis. Well, no one is stopping you from thinking that as it is really convenient, and we all love convenience in our lives, don't we? Rather than be confronted by something which shocks our world view (many Indians have worse notions about Pakistanis, so I am willing to give you a pass).

But, then it really reflects ignorance on your part, especially if you are unwilling to change your views. You know what happens with stuck cement? If you have not met amazing persons from India like me (I'm not the only one I am absolutely sure, there are many), it's your loss. No one from India,, Hindu or otherwise, owes you any explanation. Just like none of you owe any explanations to Hindutvadi trolls of India. It is up to each individual whether or not they want to learn new views of the other side with an open mind. No one will/can force you to do it.

I will just keep this post handy just in case someone in future blabbers about my "false flag" status, whether I am "trolling", or whatever. I don't owe anyone any explanation.Nor does any Hindu Indian poster here. Everyone can have their own independent views. Not only in this forum but in real life as well. Get used to it if not already.

The only question is: are you willing to accept and embrace the diversity of opinions in your personal life? I hope you do.

@waz @xeuss @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Excellent post

 

[Avatar]

I don't think OP is a false flagger. There's nothing wrong with holding these opinions. I personally have friends who share some, if not all of OP's views.

One of India's core values are Unity in diversity. We are a democracy and which means we simply go by what the majority decides for better or worse.

I don't align with the NAMO lead government but there are aspects of the leadership that everyone can appreciate.

We can do a search for the keywords "Kashmir is just the start" to discover what sinister plans underlay Pakistans intent, which are all very well known and understood.

 

[Secularindian]

It was I who accused you. And I still accuse you loool. Goan Christians don't talk like you do, they talk in an Anglo Indian way like padamchen who is a Parsi. Only bhakts type like you do.

LOL Have Ever Been To goa in your Life

And Portuguese Christians are called Luso-Indian, or Portuguese-Indian not Anglo indian

Go Google there numbers in goa then come to me

@ChennaiDude Next They Will Call Mallu's Anglo Indian Too

Here I Tell You what We are

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangalorean_Catholics

 

[Cliftonite]

LOL Have Ever Been To goa in your Life

And Portuguese Christians are called Luso-Indian, or Portuguese-Indian not Anglo indian

Go Google there numbers in goa then come to me

@ChennaiDude Next They Will Call Mallu's Anglo Indian Too

Indian Christians can easily be identified. Even the Syriac Mallu and Goan Christians can be identified by their way of speaking. I've studied in a convent school, I've had Parsi teachers, Goan Christian and Sri Lankan teachers. They are easily differentiable from desi people. You give me cow belt BIMARU or Gujju Marathi vibes.

LOL Have Ever Been To goa in your Life

And Portuguese Christians are called Luso-Indian, or Portuguese-Indian not Anglo indian

Go Google there numbers in goa then come to me

@ChennaiDude Next They Will Call Mallu's Anglo Indian Too

Here I Tell You what We are

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangalorean_Catholics

My teacher was a Christian with a Noronha surname. I'm guessing that is a Portuguese surname. No honey, Christians have a very different vibe to desi people regardless of their denomination.

 

[Secularindian]

Indian Christians can easily be identified. Even the Syriac Mallu and Goan Christians can be identified by their way of speaking. I've studied in a convent school, I've had Parsi teachers, Goan Christian and Sri Lankan teachers. They are easily differentiable from desi people. You give me cow belt BIMARU or Gujju Marathi vibes.

look At are numbers
in goa and it is 2011 census
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konkani_people#cite_note-comissionerlangs-2


Seriously you Sound dumb assuming About Country or state you never Been To or Rural Goan villages