In pictures: Isis destroys Iraq shrines

[ghoul]

Wow
You promptly compared the final resting place of OUR Holy Prophet Muhammad SAW to your wannabe wali peer so that he can have his shrine-

Btw its not a shrine- we do not pray facing it- we do not have chersi bhangis and criminals wandering around- we dont not make dua from it- we say our Salam- recite Darood Shareef- then face Kabaa and pray only from Allah-

Forget your silly excuses and read the authentic Hadiths-

And making a mausoleum doesn't mean you're making an idol. In Pakistan, they have made Jinnah's mausoleum out of respect, not out of some religious purpose, but then again, can we expect any sanity from a deviant sect known for insanity? Isn't it a huge disrespect for all these sahaabas to demolish their mausoleums? I bet after a century, most muslims would even forget that these people even existed and would start to doubt the factuality of Islamic prophet and saints, just like they have started to doubt the existence of Jesus in the west and started talking of how Jesus was a fictional character and not a real person.

Perhaps peer pressure in a modern day slave economy has been too much for you to bear. And all true hanafis respect the mausoleums and local saints. Hanafi is the majority sect of the muslim world.

 

[JonAsad]

who decides who is muslim
they do takfir on someone then he is not muslim for them anymore

I agree-
No one can decide who is Muslim or not-
ISIS scums killing innocent people be it Shias will burn in hell-

 

[ghoul]

And if i give you hadiths or quranic references that in Islam there is no concept of such homage infact its forbidden you will not believe it- isnt it?-

There was no concept of suffism or whatever when Islam started to spread 1400 years ago- No Khalifa was a Sufi no Sahabi companion of Muhammad SAW was a Sufi-
There is no record of any Suhabi Abu Bakr Umer Usman Ali (RA) visiting graves to pay homage or asking for Wasela-

People made all these fitnas up later on-

There's no real quranic reference to back your religious claims. The deviant sect that you follow relies upon dubious ahaadis. Remember, not every hadis can be taken as the actual truth.

 

[Indischer]

I have never seen in my life any proven results from such religious discussions.
OT: After these incidents i think we have no reason left to cry for Babri Mosque.

Well said. The Babri Masjid should not have been demolished. But the hypocrisy of many members here is evident now, isn't it? If ISIS does it, it is justified under some Hadith, but if anyone else does it, it's systematic persecution of Islam and Muslims?

Get a life, ISIS supporters. And spare the lives of others too.

 

[JonAsad]

There's no real quranic reference to back your religious claims. The deviant sect that you follow relies upon dubious ahaadis. Remember, not every hadis can be taken as the actual truth.

People are actually quoting Quran in this thread- maybe you are too blind to see that-

Any way I have to go- Fi Aman illah-

 

[Serpentine]

they slaugher muslims n then as a way of making it up they destroy shrines !!!
Doesn't these filthy khawarij know that killing a muslim soul is worst than destroying the Kaaba itself !!!

The problem is, those people they kill are not considered to be Muslims and ironically their definition of Islam excludes majority of Muslim population, hence they should be killed, and Shias are in the first line.

 

[KingMamba]

Well said. The Babri Masjid should not have been demolished. But the hypocrisy of many members here is evident now, isn't it? If ISIS does it, it is justified under some Hadith, but if anyone else does it, it's systematic persecution of Islam and Muslims?

Get a life, ISIS supporters. And spare the lives of others too.

Apple to oranges.

 

[jaunty]

How delightful!

 

[Indischer]

Apple to oranges.

All fruits provided by the same creator.

 

[Rizwan Alam]

And making a mausoleum doesn't mean you're making an idol. In Pakistan, they have made Jinnah's mausoleum out of respect, not out of some religious purpose, but then again, can we expect any sanity from a deviant sect known for insanity? Isn't it a huge disrespect for all these sahaabas to demolish their mausoleums? I bet after a century, most muslims would even forget that these people even existed and would start to doubt the factuality of Islamic prophet and saints, just like they have started to doubt the existence of Jesus in the west and started talking of how Jesus was a fictional character and not a real person.

Perhaps peer pressure in a modern day slave economy has been too much for you to bear. And all true hanafis respect the mausoleums and local saints. Hanafi is the majority sect of the muslim world.

I do not think this thread will be able to see the light of dawn but... do you think these Hanafi Scholars were not true Hanafi Even the direct Student of Imam Abu Hanifa??

a) Imam Tahir bin Ahmad bin Abdul Rasheed Bukhari (482 h to 5 42 h) said
فان كتب عليه شىء او وضع الاحجار فلا بأس به عند البعض ولا يجصص القبر و لا يطين ولا يرفع عليه بناء
There is no harm in writing and placing on graves according to some. But to not plaster the grave nor to make it solid nor to make any building over it[Khulsata tul Fatawa vol 1 page 26] .

b) Imam Abu haneefah ra And his Student (c)Imam Muhammad
ولا نرى ان يزاد على ماخرج منه ونكره ان يجصص او يطين او يجعل عنده مسجد الى ان قال ان النبى صلى الله عليه وسلم نهى عن تربيع القبور وتجصيصها قال محمد و به ناخذ وهو قول ابي حنيفه
"We don't consider this to be right that the sand that has been dug out from the grave should be replaced with quantity more than it on the grave It is makrooh to make the graves solid...because Prophet [s.a.w] had forbidden this and this is our madhab and this is also the view of Imam Abu Hanifa [r.h]."[Kitaab al-Athaar Imam Muhammed page 49 Matbooa Kutub Khana Majeediya Multan] .

c) It is mentioned in "Ziyaratul quboor bidiyyetuha wastihbabuha" by shaykh Muhiydeen Muhammad ibn Ali al-Birqvi al-Hanafi (b 929 h)on page 58:

."Salamah ibn Wardan said: "I seen Anas ibn Malik greeting prophet (sallalahu alayhi wa salam). Then he turned his back to grave (of prophet (sallalahu alayhi wa salam) and started to make /dua/. There is no contradiction on this issue between scholars. The difference is in the opinion where he should be greeted. Abu Haneefa used to turn towards /qibla/ when he greeted prophet :s:, and he didn't turn towards grave. Some others said:"Person should turn to grave only when he is saluting". No one from 4 imams said that (anyone) should turn to grave when he supplicate. There is only one baseless story on this issue that attributed to imam Malik. It also said that imam Shafi supplicated while he was standing near the grave of Abu Haneefa, and he was turned to his grave. And that's blatant lie".
On page 80 he said: "It's obligatory to demolish domes that were build upon graves.

he also said. "Visiting graves to offer prayers by them, circumambulate them, kiss them, carry out their istilam, to rub cheeks on them, take their dust, to supplicate to the occupants [of the grave], seek their aid [isti'ana], ask from them help, sustenance, well being, children, fulfillment of debts, removal of difficulties, help with sorrows and other needs which the worshippers of idols used to ask their idols. None of this is sanctioned in Shari'ah, according to the consensus of the Imams of the Muslims, as the Messenger of Allah and none of the Companions and Followers and the imams of the faith did this. Rather, the basis of this polytheistic, bid'ati visit has been derived from the worshippers of statutes!" .

d) AL ALOUSI Hanafi mentioned
ثم إجماعاً فإن أعظم المحرمات وأسباب الشرك الصلاة عندها واتخاذها مساجد أو بناؤها عليها، وتجب المبادرة لهدمها وهدم القباب التي على القبور إذ هي أضر من مسجد الضرار لأنها أسست على معصية رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لأنه عليه الصلاة والسلام نهى عن ذلك وأمر بهدم القبور المشرفة، وتجب إزالة كل قنديل أو سراج على قبر ولا يصح وقفه ولانذره

"This is consensus that from the prohibited things and things which can lead to shirk are praying salah at the graves, to build mosques or structures over the graves. It is obligatory (wajib) to remove the high graves and large structures over the graves because they are more dangerous than Mosquoe of Dharar and they are built by the disobedience of the Prophet [s.a.w]...and it is wajib to remove the lightening that is done over the graves ..."[Rooh al-Ma'ani under Surah al-Kahf verse 21]

(Now onwards copying some selective fatwas of Hanafi Scholars from another good website one can see whole article here) umm-ul-qura - www.umm-ul-qura.org

Mahmud Al-Alusi said about the story of Kahf and people who base on it to justify building on graves of saints: "And people have taken this as a proof for permitting building on graves of saints and turning them into mosques and praying in them...This saying is pure falsehood, corruption and evil. Ahmad, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasai, ibn Majah narrated from ibn Abbas that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said: "May Allah curse the women visiting graves, those who make graves upon them and put lamps upon it" .

e) Abdullah ibn Ahmad An-Nasafi said in his “Kanz ud Daqaiq” v 2 p 194: “They (graves) should not be elevated nor plastered”

f) Ibn Nujaym said in explanation in his “Bahr ur Raiq”:“Because of the Hadith of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah (saw) forbade to do Tajsis (plastering) of graves, to sit on them, to build over them and write on them”
g) Qadhi Khan hanafi said his “Fatawa” v 1 p 94:
ولا يجصص القبر لماروى عن النبى صلى الله عليه وسلم انه نهى عن التجصيص و التفضيص و عن البناء فوق القبر اراد بالبناء السفط الذى يجعل على القبر فى ديارنا لما روى عن ابى حنيفة رحمة الله انه قال لا يجصص القبر و لا يطين و لا يرفع عليه بناء وسفط
« The graves should not be plastered, because the Prophet (saw) has forbidden plastering graves ( tajsis), to make them solid with silver (Tafdid), to build over them constructions, they say ( the fuqahas ) that the word « bina » refers to the construction over the graves that we can see in our countries on graves, because Imam Abu Hanifa forbade plastering graves, making them solid and to build over them constructions and mazar. » [Fatawa Qadi Khan with the Haashiya of Alamgeeri vol 1 p 194, Hafiz Kutub Khana Quetta 1984]“ .

h) Qadhi Ibrahim Al-Halabi said in “Halabi Al-Kabeer” p 599:
“It is Makruh to do Tajsis (plastering) of graves, and to coat them with clay, and this is what the three Imams (Abu Hanifah and his two students Abu Yusuf and Muhammad ibnul Hasan) said because of what Jabir narrated…and from Abu Hanifah, it is Makruh to build on them constructions like houses or domes or similar to them because of the precedent Hadith”
i) Siraj ud Din said in his "Fatawa Sirajiyah" p 24: "It is Makruh to build on graves" .

j) At-Tahtawi hanafi rahimullah wrote in his explanation of "Maraqi Al-Falah" p 335:"The three (Abu Hanifah and his two students) said that they (graves) should not be plastered because of the saying of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah (saw) forbade...And the forbiddance of the Prophet (saw) indicates that what they have mentioned is Makruh Tahrimi" .

k) Sayid Murtadha Az-Zubaydi said in his "'Uqud Al-Jawahir Al-Munifah" v 1 p 103:"The Bayan of the narration shows that it is Makruh to do Tajsis (plastering of graves)"

l) As-Sarkhasi wrote in his “Mabsut” v 2 p 62: “He forbade doing Tajsis of graves”

m) Qadhi Ibrahim Al-Hanafi said in his “Majalis ul Abrar” p 129: “And the domes built on graves, it is obligatory to destroy them because they have been built in disobedience and opposition to the Messenger (saw) , and every construction that is built in disobedience and opposition to the Messenger (saw) deserves more to be destroyed than the mosque of Dhirar.”

n) Ala ud Din As-Samarqandi said as mentioned in “Tuhfatul Fuqaha” v 1 p 400: “The Sunnah concerning the grave is that it should be convex, not in a square form, it should not be coated with clay, nor plastered, and Abu Hanifah consider it Makruh to build on graves”

o) Hasan Ash-Shurunbulali wrote in “Nur ul Idah” p 153:“And baked bricks and wood is Makruh…and it is forbidden (Haram) to built on graves for beatification and Makruh if it is for solidification after burial” (end quotes from UMM UL QURRA)
Note: Against these Hanafi fatawa and direct fatwa of Imam Abu Hanifa, The Sufi of 10th century Abdul Wahab Sha'raani quoted very odd saying He states, "It is based on this that other Imams say that a building shouldn't be built on a grave nor should it be plastered, even though the ruling of Imam Abu Hanifa رضی اللہ تعالٰی عنہ is, "All of these things are permissible." So, the former sayings have hardship and the latter one has ease:' [Meezaan alKubra, Vol.1, Kitaabul-Janaaiz]

 

[KingMamba]

And if i give you hadiths or quranic references that in Islam there is no concept of such homage infact its forbidden you will not believe it- isnt it?-

There was no concept of suffism or whatever when Islam started to spread 1400 years ago- No Khalifa was a Sufi no Sahabi companion of Muhammad SAW was a Sufi-
There is no record of any Suhabi Abu Bakr Umer Usman Ali (RA) visiting graves to pay homage or asking for Wasela-

People made all these fitnas up later on-

First Islam does not believe that it began 1400 years ago. Prophet Muhammad PBUH was the last of the prophets he never claimed he was bringing along something new. Secondly all Sufis have a chain which they attribute back to Prophet Muhammad PBUH, most pass through Hazrat Ali RA however the Naqshbandi chain passes through Hazrat Abu Bakr RA so as far as the Sufis are concerned they have been around since the beginning of organized Islam as we know it today. Lastly you allude that the Sufis are some kind of fitna but I think blowing up shrines and bringing down mosques while slaughtering innocents is a far greater fitna. At worst Sufis are the Muslim version of hippies and they do no harm, in fact if you trade the Sufis with the Wahabbis in history rest assured Islam would not have as many adherents as it does today.

All fruits provided by the same creator.

Irrelevant.

 

[Indischer]

Irrelevant.

To you perhaps. Not to me.

 

[raptor22]

Even Jews and Christian were allowed to practice their rituals during prophet era as far as they are considered as Abraham religions ... Now someone over here are calling Shia Kafir while all of them believe Allah as the only God and Mohammad (pbuh and hh) his true messenger ... different interpretation of religion doesn't make a person Kafir ....

And if you eager to proceed your agenda please put this one in your list too:
Khālid ibn al-Walīd tomb

 

[ajpirzada]

@sur yes it seems I wrongly attributed what was said by the scholars to Allah. May Allah forgive me. Nonetheless, the more than 10 tafasir i quoted agreed that those were the believers. And i am yet to see a significant number who say that these were not muslims.

Secondly, all the ahadith which you have quoted are still in the context of worshiping the graves as idols. If what you understand is true then the practice of the salaf was contrary to the teachings of RasoolAllah (peace and blessings be upon him):

1. Dawud ibn Salih said: "[The governor of Madina] Marwan [ibn al-Hakam] one day saw a man placing his face on top of the grave of the Prophet. He said: "Do you know what you are doing?" When he came near him, he realized it was Abu Ayyub al-Ansari. The latter said: "Yes; I came to the Prophet, not to a stone." Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, Ahmad (5:422), Al-Tabarani in his Mu`jam al-Kabir (4:189) and his Awsat according to Haythami in al-Zawa'id (5:245 and 5:441 #5845 Book of Hajj, "Section on the honoring of the dwellers of Madina, chapter on placing one's face against the grave of our Master the Prophet

" and #9252 Book of Khilafa, "Chapter on the leadership of those unworthy of it"), al-Hakim in his Mustadrak (4:515); both the latter and al-Dhahabi said it was sahih. It is also cited by al-Subki in Shifa' al-siqam (p. 126) and Ibn Taymiyya in al-Muntaqa (2:261f.).

2. It is also narrated that Mu`adh ibn Jabal and Bilal came to the grave of the Prophet

and sat weeping, and the latter rubbed his face against it. Ibn Majah 2:1320, Ahmad, al-Tabarani, al-Subki, and Ibn `Asakir.

- taken from livingislam.org

So that Companions sat by RasoolAllah's grave, rubbed their face on it and wept while facing it. It clearly shows that the injunctions of the RasoolAllah (peace and blessings be upon him and his family) were with regards to the worshiping of the grave as an idol and revering it as an object of worship.

And this the understanding of Ibn Hajr Asqalani (rha) who said when explaining the hadith in Sahih Bukhair on this subject, "if someone constructs a mosque near the grave of a pious person for the purpose of seeking tabarruk and not for prostration or paying attention towards them, he will never be included in this prohibition."

Imam Shafi(RA) visiting Tomb of Imam abu Hanifa (RA)
He describes his own experience about the blessings of the tomb of Imam Abū Hanīfa: I derive blessing from the person of Imam Abū Hanīfa and I visit his grave everyday. When I face a prblem,I offer two optional cycles of prayer and visit his grave and (while standing) I pray to Allah to solve my problem. And I have not even left the place that my prblem is solved.
Reference:
Khatīb Baghdādī has related the incident with a sound chain of transmission in his Tārīkh Baghdād (1:123)
Ibn Hajar Haythamī, al-Khayrāt-ul-hisān fī manāqib-il-imām al-a‘zam Abū Hanīfah (p.94)
Muhammad Zāhid Kawtharī, Maqālāt (p.381)
Ibn ‘Ābidīn Shāmī in Radd-ul-muhtār ‘alā Durr-il-mukhtār (1:41).

Imam Ibn Hibban (rah)
the great Muhadith from Islaaf as Saliheen (rah) [d. 354 AH] said regarding visitation to tomb of Imam Ali Raza bin Musa (ra):I have done ziyarah of his tomb many times, during my stay at Tus, whenever I got into any difficulty I went to the grave of Imam Musa raza (ra) and asked Allah for the fulfillment of my need, every time I was answered and my difficulty was removed. This is such a reality that I found it to be true nomatter how many times I did it May Allah grant us death in the true love for Prophet (Peace be upon him) and his blessed Ahlul Bayt. [Ibn Abi Hatim Razi, Kitab al Thiqat, Volume No. 8, Page No. 457, Number: 14411]

Similarly, neither of the companions (Allah's mercy be upon them) saw any harm in the burial of Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar (Allah's mercy be upon them) in a building which was at the same time attached to the mosque:

Imam at-Tabari and Hafiz Ibn Kathir write, in 88 AH, that the room of ‘A’isha (may Allah be pleased with her) – where there are graves of the Prophet Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), Abu Bakr and ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with them)- was joined to the mosque of the Prophet.
Reference: Tareeh Tabari and Tar'ikh Hafiz Ibn Kathir, Chapter of Government of Walid ibn 'abd al-Malik

If I go by your interpretation then not only where the salafs acting against the teachings but also the companions. Therefore, I will stick with the understanding which the scholars i mentioned earlier have drawn on this subject.

Mullah Ali Qari (Rehmatullah Alaih) writes:
أما من اتخذ مسجدا في جوار صالح أو صلى في مقبرة وقصد الإستظهار بروحه أو وصول أثر ما من أثر عبادته إليه لا للتعظيم له والتوجه نحوه فلا حرج عليه ألا ترى أن مرقد إسماعيل عليه السلام في المسجد الحرام عند الحطيم ثم أن ذلك المسجد أفضل مكان يتحرى المصلى لصلاته والنهي عن الصلاة في المقابر مختص بالقبور المنبوشة لما فيها من النجاسة كذا ذكره الطيبي وذكر غيره أن صورة قبر إسماعيل عليه السلام في الحجر تحت الميزاب وإن في الحطيم بين الحجر الأسود وزمزم قبر سبعين نبيا
Translation: Anyone who builds a mosque near the grave of an upright person or prays in the tomb (Maqbara) or intends to ask for help through the Ruh of that upright person or intends to seek barakah from his left overs, If he does all that without the intention of giving him Tazeem or doing tawajuh towards him ( in prayer) “Then there is nothing wrong in that, don’t you see that Grave of Hadrat Ismail(A.S) is inside the Masjid ul Harram near the hateem and to Pray there is Superior than anything else ” however to pray near the graves is only forbidden when the soil becomes dirty because of Najasat of deceased… In the Hateem near Hajr al Aswad and Mizaab there are “Graves of 70 Prophets” [Mirqat, Sharh al Mishqaat, Volume No. 2, Page No. 202]
Mullah Ali Qari (Rehmatullah Alaih) also said:
وقد أباح السلف البناء على قبر المشايخ والعلماء المشهورين ليزورهم الناس ويستريحوا بالجلوس فيه
Translation: The early Muslims (Salaf) have considered it Mubah (i.e. allowed) to build over the graves of famous Mashaikh and Ulama so that people can visit them and sit there (easily) [Mirqaat Sharh al Misshqaat, Volume No. 4, Page No. 69]

Similarly, Imam Ibn Hajr al Asqalani (rah) writes in his magnificent Fath ul Bari (commentary on Sahih Bukhari):
In view of the fact that the Jews and Christians were taking the graves of their Prophets as their qibla for the purpose of respect, and were paying attention towards them at the time of their prayers, their graves took the position of idols. For this reason the Muslims have been forbidden from this action. However, if someoneconstructs a mosque near the grave of a pious person for the prupose of seeking tabarruk and not for prostration or paying attention towards them, he will never be included in this prohibition.( Ibn Hajr al-‘Asqalani, Fath al-bari, vol. 3, p. 208)

you are entitled to your own understanding. Neither should bulldoze the interpretation we understand onto each other.

 

[Enigma SIG]

m) Qadhi Ibrahim Al-Hanafi said in his “Majalis ul Abrar” p 129: “And the domes built on graves, it is obligatory to destroy them because they have been built in disobedience and opposition to the Messenger (saw) , and every construction that is built in disobedience and opposition to the Messenger (saw) deserves more to be destroyed than the mosque of Dhirar.”

In light of what is being preached here, please proceed to destroy the grave of the Prophet and its surrounding structure in Medina's holy mosque. I dare you. I double dare you. But the Saudi's won't . Why don't they flatten it like they did to Baqee? Scared much of the retribution that will follow?