In light of recent events, the real reason why US won't leave afghanistan directly from an American.

[Path-Finder]

I shall clear some misconceptions.

Cold War is one of the worst chapters of human history because NATO, USSR and China facilitated political divisions in different regions of the world (pitting one country against another) and these moves had tragic consequences for many unfortunately. Vietnam was one of the victims of this sort of mischief but it managed to overcome its internal strife in the long-term which is a positive development. Other regions remain split to this day including the Korean peninsula and China from Taiwan.

Cold War also facilitated Iran - Iraq war and the Soviet - Afghan war - both in the 1980s. Death and destruction on a massive scale notwithstanding, these two wars also fueled the menace of Salafi jihadism in turn and political entities such as the Al-Qaeda Network, ISIS, ISIS-K and Taliban types are expressions/off-shoots of this extremist religio-political philosophy.

In short, Cold War had a cascading effect which continue to manifest in different ways and continue haunt people in different parts of the world even today.

If you pay closer attention, you will realize that the big three (US; Russia; and China) are at it again, and I fear that additional episodes of tragedies will unfold as a consequence at some point in different intervals. Pakistan, in particular, should be politically wiser now, and do its best to avoid being pulled into this nonsense once again. Towards this end, peaceful resolution of war in Afghanistan is in the best interest of Pakistan, and of-course, foreign footprint in Afghanistan must be reduced to bear minimum consequently, but this cannot be ensured by force. In case you didn't notice, Pakistan offer US most convenient access to Afghanistan...

US does have a say in the affairs of Afghanistan since 9/11 because of obvious reasons. Afghan Taliban must learn from its mistakes, this is the only way forward.

I don't know what cold war has to do with any of it but you are a spin master! Ill give you your due credit. we have gone miles away from where we started. At present time US is like the soviet invader under whatever pretext. you wont like it but there is nothing I can do for that as they are facing taliban. I didn't make the taliban or have affiliation before you try to label me at your own convenience.

The juxtapose is that russia is trying to broker peace which surprisingly gets blamed for meddling against the US in afghanistan. I guess role reversed vis a vis cold war!

you keep repeating again and again that taliban must learn from mistake and what not, again their country their way of doing things. you make peace with your enemies regardless of what you perceive or wish things were like.

 

[CodeforFood]

What kind of delusional minds think American can capture Pakistani nukes whenever they want, you must be living in lala land to think that. This might be the highest of the height of stupidity.



which leaders?

Sir,
You are under estimating your hidden and visible adversaries is all I can say here.

 

[LeGenD]

I don't know what cold war has to do with any of it but you are a spin master! Ill give you your due credit. we have gone miles away from where we started. At present time US is like the soviet invader under whatever pretext. you wont like it but there is nothing I can do for that as they are facing taliban. I didn't make the taliban or have affiliation before you try to label me at your own convenience.

The juxtapose is that russia is trying to broker peace which surprisingly gets blamed for meddling against the US in afghanistan. I guess role reversed vis a vis cold war!

you keep repeating again and again that taliban must learn from mistake and what not, again their country their way of doing things. you make peace with your enemies regardless of what you perceive or wish things were like.

If you do not study history and learn from it, you will never understand the bigger picture of problems at hand. You will never understand why modern-era Afghanistan is one big pile of mess, and how and why Afghan Taliban emerged, and why it was attacked.

Your perception of developments in Afghanistan is very narrow and limited unfortunately. And here you are, attempting to explain how I am wrong and how righteous Afghan Taliban are.

I am not a spin master, I just understand the bigger picture far better than most here, and I have clarified why the big three are not trustworthy players and how they have a hand in dividing people in different parts of the world.

You repeatedly accuse me of having a favorable view of American intervention in Afghanistan but I have clarified my stance in this regard that this is not the case. I did argue that the Afghan Taliban are really shortsighted and criminal-minded people. They want to fight some more? Be my guest. They continue to suffer, not me.

Russia = broker of peace in Afghanistan?

Since when is Russia a trustworthy player? What Russia is doing, is called theatrics to fool gullible idiots some more. They are also arming India with S-400 systems which will threaten patrols of PAF near the border to great extent in the coming years. Just wait for S-400 systems to arrive in the region...

Sure bro, have faith in Russia. More faith in Russia than Allah Almighty perhaps.

US, Russia and China have successfully divided Muslims as well, on political grounds, in order to advance their nefarious designs further. Sure, pick your side in this pathetic Cold War.

 

[Reddington]

Afghan Taliban are not good people, they kill other Muslims/people indiscriminately, and no wonder they were unable to convince Americans with their deeds that they are a reasonable bunch and will strive for lasting peace in the region. These guys are not righteous in any manner; they are just as bad as any other terrible militia. You expect these guys to reform the region?

And why are you so concerned about Afghan Taliban killing Muslims???? Had Taliban been slaughtering non Muslims, would it be ok for you????

Throughout Islamic history, Muslims have first dealt with the Munafiqs i.e. so called Muslims and then dealt with Kafirs.

Before Muslims dealt with Roman and Persian empires, they first fought the Ridda wars against the ones who abandoned Islam. Saladin fought for more than a decade against the so called Muslims. Babur fought against the Muslims. Abdali slaughtered Sikhs and the Muslims who sided with them. Nadir Shah, Selim 1 etc. they all did that.

Frankly speaking, I personally do not care whether Taliban are good people or bad people. For me, my country Pakistan comes first. The only way I see Pakistan taking on India and putting our entire focus on kashmir is if we secure our western border. A Taliban victory would mean that Afghanistan would once again become our strategic depth and our undeclared fifth province like it was in late 90s.

 

[Verve]

Afghan Taliban brought this shit upon themselves and I feel no sympathy for them because they haven't learned from their blunders/errors yet. I hope they do now.

Americans were begging Taliban for negotiations.

Taliban have always been on the right and US on the wrong. Taliban have majority Afghanistan population support as well.

And target is not Taliban, it's Pakistan and China. And according to US, Afghan Taliban consult with ISI and Pakistan also wants US out so the Indians and the proxies can be wiped out from there.

 

[Adonis]

Your words are not making any sense. If the superpower wanted absolute victory it would have come years ago. You need to get off the high horse.

This is not about the Taliban. This is about Pakistan and China.[/QUOTE]

...and Iran and Russia.

 

[SIPRA]

I somehow believe that these aborted negotiations, between US and Taliban, would restart in a near future. Same appears to be the view of Taliban.

 

[Path-Finder]

If you do not study history and learn from it, you will never understand the bigger picture of problems at hand. You will never understand why modern-era Afghanistan is one big pile of mess, and how and why Afghan Taliban emerged, and why it was attacked.

Your perception of developments in Afghanistan is very narrow and limited unfortunately. And here you are, attempting to explain how I am wrong and how righteous Afghan Taliban are.

I am not a spin master, I just understand the bigger picture far better than most here, and I have clarified why the big three are not trustworthy players and how they have a hand in dividing people in different parts of the world.

You repeatedly accuse me of having a favorable view of American intervention in Afghanistan but I have clarified my stance in this regard that this is not the case. I did argue that the Afghan Taliban are really shortsighted and criminal-minded people. They want to fight some more? Be my guest. They continue to suffer, not me.

Russia = broker of peace in Afghanistan?

Since when is Russia a trustworthy player? What Russia is doing, is called theatrics to fool gullible idiots some more. They are also arming India with S-400 systems which will threaten patrols of PAF near the border to great extent in the coming years. Just wait for S-400 systems to arrive in the region...

Sure bro, have faith in Russia. More faith in Russia than Allah Almighty perhaps.

US, Russia and China have successfully divided Muslims as well, on political grounds, in order to advance their nefarious designs further. Sure, pick your side in this pathetic Cold War.

hmmn, I guess massaging america's prostate has become second nature, sadly. yea america is trustworthy . I thought i'll use smileys too. hmmn only I don't understand the situation on ground the bad tali's need to surrender their homeland to yanks. just like vietcong should have surrendered indochina as well, but they didn't.

oh dear just because your qibla is washington dc and its not an accusation that you have them at deity level and to offset the conversation, making remarks that maybe my qibla is the kremlin! My qibla is still Haram in Mecca.

A good decent attempt in twisting things, you get 9.9/10

 

[Baz]

Israel is behind all this. innit?

 

[LeGenD]

hmmn, I guess messaging america's prostate has become second nature, sadly. yea america is trustworthy . I thought i'll use smileys too.

I have clearly pointed out that the BIG 3 namely US, Russia and China are not trustworthy entities. They have successfully divided Muslims on political grounds, in order to advance their respective (questionable) designs, but it would be Muslims who will continue to pay a terrible price in this Cold War.

Not just the BIG 3, but current generation of Muslims are split even further on the grounds of domestic politics and ideology. Even fellow muslims are not trustworthy in this era of great FITNA, let alone others.

hmmn only I don't understand the situation on ground the bad tali's need to surrender their homeland to yanks. just like vietcong should have surrendered indochina as well, but they didn't.

You make it sound like as if Afghan Taliban speak for entire Afghanistan but this is not true. Many Afghans hate Afghan Taliban as well, and actually welcome American intervention in Afghanistan because they believe that Americans have offered them a far better alternative to Afghan Taliban in terms of freedom of expression, and fear oppression of Afghan Taliban if they somehow return to power.

If you do not believe me, then take a tour of Afghanistan and conduct some interviews there. Prove me wrong, if you can.

I shall help you:

Regionally, 79% of respondents in the North West identify the Taliban as the biggest threat to local security, while respondents in the East (57%) see Daesh/ISIS as the biggest threat to local security. Afghans continue to lose sympathy for armed opposition groups with 82% indicating that they have "no sympathy" for the Taliban.

Link: http://asiafoundation.org/where-we-work/afghanistan/survey/

Secondly, US had the mandate of UN to establish an interim governmemt in Afghanistan: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1386

So much for your 'need to surrender their homeland to yanks' remark.

oh dear just because your qibla is washington dc and its not an accusation that you have them at deity level and to offset the conversation, making remarks that maybe my qibla is the kremlin! My qibla is still Haram in Mecca.

A good decent attempt in twisting things, you get 9.9/10

Ad hominem alert. You get 10/10 for this nonsense.

When and where have I supported and argued in the favor of Americans having the right to attack, occupy and reshape other countries by force without a solid basis? I do not support and condone these type of moves from any country at personal capacity.

I am not picking sides here but highlighting some harsh realities. I pointed out to you the fact that the Afghan Taliban are paying the price of their own stupidity and lack of foreign policy.

Who advised the Afghan Taliban to provide shelter to the notorious Al-Qaeda Network in Afghanistan for instance? Why you continue to overlook this reality?

That reality (alone) motivated Americans to invade Afghanistan. Ask Americans yourself. @gambit

Problem with your suggestion is that the Afghan Taliban do not have sufficient power to drive US out from Afghanistan, and they have ZERO chance to take over Kabul by force either. They are not getting anywhere in this war, only killing more and more people for nothing.

Afghan Taliban certainly have the option to do some introspection, learn from their mistakes, commit to counterterrorism efforts in the region, and capitalize on the American offer to integrate with the rest of Afghan society. They can request Americans to cut down on their presence in Afghanistan in exchange - a better deal is not possible, and a better option is not on the cards. This is in the best interests of all stakeholders in Afghanistan for now.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Regionally, 79% of respondents in the North West identify the Taliban as the biggest threat to local security, while respondents in the East (57%) see Daesh/ISIS as the biggest threat to local security. Afghans continue to lose sympathy for armed opposition groups with 82% indicating that they have "no sympathy" for the Taliban.

Northwest Afghans (aka Tajiks, Parsiwans, and Hazaras) are the worst enemies of Southern and Central Afghans (Pukhtoons.)

This is not a fair poll of sentiments through most of Afghanistan, esp now that uS has emboldened non-Pukhtoons.

 

[Path-Finder]

I have clearly pointed out that the BIG 3 namely US, Russia and China are not trustworthy entities. They have successfully divided Muslims on political grounds, in order to advance their respective (questionable) designs, but it would be Muslims who will continue to pay a terrible price in this Cold War.

Not just the BIG 3, but current generation of Muslims are split even further on the grounds of domestic politics and ideology. Even fellow muslims are not trustworthy in this era of great FITNA, let alone others.




You make it sound like as if Afghan Taliban speak for entire Afghanistan but this is not true. Many Afghans hate Afghan Taliban as well, and actually welcome American intervention in Afghanistan because they believe that Americans have offered them a far better alternative to Afghan Taliban in terms of freedom of expression, and fear oppression of Afghan Taliban if they somehow return to power.

If you do not believe me, then take a tour of Afghanistan and conduct some interviews there. Prove me wrong, if you can.

I shall help you:

Regionally, 79% of respondents in the North West identify the Taliban as the biggest threat to local security, while respondents in the East (57%) see Daesh/ISIS as the biggest threat to local security. Afghans continue to lose sympathy for armed opposition groups with 82% indicating that they have "no sympathy" for the Taliban.

Link: http://asiafoundation.org/where-we-work/afghanistan/survey/

Secondly, US had the mandate of UN to establish an interim governmemt in Afghanistan: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1386

So much for your 'need to surrender their homeland to yanks' remark.


Ad hominem alert. You get 10/10 for this nonsense.

When and where have I supported and argued in the favor of Americans having the right to attack, occupy and reshape other countries by force without a solid basis? I do not support and condone these type of moves from any country at personal capacity.

I am not picking sides here but highlighting some harsh realities. I pointed out to you the fact that the Afghan Taliban are paying the price of their own stupidity and lack of foreign policy.

Who advised the Afghan Taliban to provide shelter to the notorious Al-Qaeda Network in Afghanistan for instance? Why you continue to overlook this reality?

That reality (alone) motivated Americans to invade Afghanistan. Ask Americans yourself. @gambit

Problem with your suggestion is that the Afghan Taliban do not have sufficient power to drive US out from Afghanistan, and they have ZERO chance to take over Kabul by force either. They are not getting anywhere in this war, only killing more and more people for nothing.

Afghan Taliban certainly have the option to do some introspection, learn from their mistakes, commit to counterterrorism efforts in the region, and capitalize on the American offer to integrate with the rest of Afghan society. They can request Americans to cut down on their presence in Afghanistan in exchange - a better deal is not possible, and a better option is not on the cards. This is in the best interests of all stakeholders in Afghanistan for now.

you have outdone yourself again, if only writing huge essays got you extra marks in an exam then you have done a phd in nothingness. I give you 200/100. What a load of excrement.

My points are in brief and to the point. your masters were negotiating with them talibs and called them to open an office too. you play them down which is a good strategy keeps your head held high.

Big 3 are dividing and you are with the yanks? ok let's see what that division is. ultimately one side will be right and the other side won't be. may the best side win.

I didn't walk on earth last week, I remember very well when the yanks entered afghanistan and how the talibs vanished or got apprehended. From then till the present they are in areas with their crew which was previously off limit to them. One reason which does not take article writing but little brain power is people are supporting on ground. Clearly support has risen for them or will you serve me some article written by someone in an office miles away or stats and what not? I guess they have aliens on their side.

In an age where your president has highlighted or made the world aware of an obscene amount of fake news, which has become an issue globally, what is right and what is wrong as per perception.

go ahead and label me whichever way you want because I don't agree with your views. I see you have roped in someone good on you.

Let me irritate you with some russian propaganda.

 

[LeGenD]

Northwest Afghans (aka Tajiks, Parsiwans, and Hazaras) are the worst enemies of Southern and Central Afghans (Pukhtoons.)

This is not a fair poll of sentiments through most of Afghanistan, esp now that uS has emboldened non-Pukhtoons.

Bro, which poll of sentiments you find acceptable at personal capacity?

A research project is supposed to be an impartial affair, and this poll is very comprehensive incorporating individuals/respondents of every province in Afghanistan (34 provinces in total). The fact that a poll of this scale even happened, is an accomplishment in itself and the team involved deserve medals for this exceedingly difficult and risky effort.

If findings of this research do not conform to views of some members of this forum then maybe it is time for these members to come to terms with the ground realities of the region.

Many Pashtuns are a part of US-backed Afghan government as well. Even Ashraf Ghani is a pashtun. WE must understand that pashtuns have diverse views as well - WE cannot paint them all with the same brush.

One of the fundamental objectives of Trump administration is to facilitate intra-Afghan dialogue so that Afghans stop killing each other and find common grounds in Afghan politics. This was supposed to be the next phase of talks but stubborn Afghan Taliban sabotaged even the first phase of talks.

Stupidity and selffishness of Afghan Taliban never cease to amaze actually.

 

[Path-Finder]

I have clearly pointed out that the BIG 3 namely US, Russia and China are not trustworthy entities. They have successfully divided Muslims on political grounds, in order to advance their respective (questionable) designs, but it would be Muslims who will continue to pay a terrible price in this Cold War.

Not just the BIG 3, but current generation of Muslims are split even further on the grounds of domestic politics and ideology. Even fellow muslims are not trustworthy in this era of great FITNA, let alone others.




You make it sound like as if Afghan Taliban speak for entire Afghanistan but this is not true. Many Afghans hate Afghan Taliban as well, and actually welcome American intervention in Afghanistan because they believe that Americans have offered them a far better alternative to Afghan Taliban in terms of freedom of expression, and fear oppression of Afghan Taliban if they somehow return to power.

If you do not believe me, then take a tour of Afghanistan and conduct some interviews there. Prove me wrong, if you can.

I shall help you:

Regionally, 79% of respondents in the North West identify the Taliban as the biggest threat to local security, while respondents in the East (57%) see Daesh/ISIS as the biggest threat to local security. Afghans continue to lose sympathy for armed opposition groups with 82% indicating that they have "no sympathy" for the Taliban.

Link: http://asiafoundation.org/where-we-work/afghanistan/survey/

Secondly, US had the mandate of UN to establish an interim governmemt in Afghanistan: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1386

So much for your 'need to surrender their homeland to yanks' remark.


Ad hominem alert. You get 10/10 for this nonsense.

When and where have I supported and argued in the favor of Americans having the right to attack, occupy and reshape other countries by force without a solid basis? I do not support and condone these type of moves from any country at personal capacity.

I am not picking sides here but highlighting some harsh realities. I pointed out to you the fact that the Afghan Taliban are paying the price of their own stupidity and lack of foreign policy.

Who advised the Afghan Taliban to provide shelter to the notorious Al-Qaeda Network in Afghanistan for instance? Why you continue to overlook this reality?

That reality (alone) motivated Americans to invade Afghanistan. Ask Americans yourself. @gambit

Problem with your suggestion is that the Afghan Taliban do not have sufficient power to drive US out from Afghanistan, and they have ZERO chance to take over Kabul by force either. They are not getting anywhere in this war, only killing more and more people for nothing.

Afghan Taliban certainly have the option to do some introspection, learn from their mistakes, commit to counterterrorism efforts in the region, and capitalize on the American offer to integrate with the rest of Afghan society. They can request Americans to cut down on their presence in Afghanistan in exchange - a better deal is not possible, and a better option is not on the cards. This is in the best interests of all stakeholders in Afghanistan for now.

another more important thing, In my town there are many afghans i don't mean 5 or 10 families I mean over 20K afghans. If I need some info about afghanistan I alway liaise with these afghans because they are very much linked to afghanistan and their views are not spun, but they are honest.

Last year I was talking to a chap who was from balkh in northern afghanistan. He told me that despite the difference they are still afghans. that is taliban are afghans. He told me how the taliban who farsiwan dont like and reverse is true. He also said that the gov in kabul is not what they thought it was going to be. in fact the afghans I speak to say this on the regular now especially the clown ashraf ghani has turned out to be.

so get your label machine ready.

 

[LeGenD]

another more important thing, In my town there are many afghans i don't mean 5 or 10 families I mean over 20K afghans. If I need some info about afghanistan I alway liaise with these afghans because they are very much linked to afghanistan and their views are not spun and honest.

Last year I was talking to a chap who was from balkh in northern afghanistan. He told me that despite the difference they are still afghans. that is taliban are afghans. He told me how the taliban who farsiwan dont like and reverse is true. He also said that the gov in kabul is not what they thought it was going to be. in fact the afghans I speak to say that on the regular now especially the clown ashraf ghani has turned out to be.

so get your label machine ready.

Thanks for the share. Something meaningful from your end in this discussion, finally.

No individual, organization, or political entity is perfect. Afghan government is not an exception to this reality. Therefore, complaints and grievances are to be expected.

Do you think everybody in Pakistan is satisfied with how PTI-led government is managing the affairs of Pakistan? I can assure you that this is not the case, but Pakistani nationals are not up in arms in different parts of Pakistan because they understand that they will only damage Pakistan with irrational behavior. Organization is necessary in the larger interests of a nation/country; YOU need to allow institutions to develop and give them a fair chance to deliver results. If these results are not up to your expectations then YOU bring those people to power who can make them work. This is called civilization.

What I see in Afghanistan, is utter chaos, and the inflexibility of Afghan Taliban to address 'problems' in a meaningful way. They are making it very difficult for the Afghan government to govern Afghan spaces. They have attacked many Afghan Police Stations and killed many Afghan Police Officers for instance. How can Law & Order situation improve for the masses under these pressures? How can governance get better for the masses under these pressures?

Afghan Taliban want to see US-funded Afghan government fail so that people loose faith in it and embrace them instead, but this is leading both camps to nowhere and ordinary Afghans are suffering in the process. There are people/tribes in Afghanistan who will never put up with heavy-handed tactics of the Afghan Taliban - who refuse to surrender to them. This dynamic implies a perpetual state of Civil War in this country.

Unfortunately, Afghans do not realize that foreign entities and even terrorist organizations are taking advantage of chaos in Afghanistan, to advance their respective goals instead. ISIS-K is very strong in Nangarhar for example, and it is responsible for numerous attacks in Afghanistan and Pakistan from time to time. Thanks in part to the pressures of insurgency of the Afghan Taliban, COIN have not succeeded in Nangarhar because ISIS-K have no shortage of potential recruits either.

Trump administration offered Afghan Taliban a future in Afghan politics, and attempted to create an environment for the intra-Afghan dialogue involving both Afghan government and Afghan Taliban to materialize, but Afghan Taliban always had an excuse to postpone this agenda. Trump administration eventually agreed to cut down American presence in Afghanistan to appease Afghan Taliban and encourage them to commence intra-Afghan dialogue, to no avail. Now all are back to square one.

So when and how this nonsense will end? Somebody has to show maturity, right?