In favor of Hindutva; by a Pakistani muslim

[TheGreatMaratha]

That's actually closer to 9 out of 20 people. The figures usually projected are dead wrong, and a result of duplicitous definitions by those politically inclined.

Do you mean to say that the SCs and STs are not Hindus?

Even within the 11 out of 20 who are properly defined as Hindu, there is a trifurcation between Saivites, Vaishnavites and Shaktas. The first two certainly don't see eye to eye. So there is not much chance of giving legal and moral superiority to every 8 out of 10 people.

Are you even living in India? I certainly have never encountered Saivites, Vaishnavites and Shaktas fighting among themselves. Otherwise, there would be breaking news everyday about that lol.

 

[Sharma Ji]

And worship the state instead? This will form a better humanity? Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot? They banished evil religion from their states too and killed more people than every pseudo-religious nutjob combined.

They banished religion from the private space too, big difference.

Here's the thing with the UCC.. let us scrub all religious laws from the books for all communities, including the Hindus of course and have true secularism.

It doesn't mean the Muslim sharia stuff would be illegal. Those laws pertain to personal matters such as marriage etc anyway. Most Muslims, I'm guessing, will still prefer to do things the Sharia court way when it comes to inter personal disputes, it just won't be codified in the law of the land anymore.

What a successful implementation of the UCC will accomplish, is that it will open avenues, real legal 'law of the land' ones, to true aggrieved parties to seek legal recourse and for real justice to prevail in case a molana rules unfairly, for example.

A quite well to do muslim friend of mine seems to think that a UCC will force them to cremate their dead and forbid all Islamic customs.

Man's just convinced it's out to kill Islam, won't even debate or talk about it.

UCC is pro India, not anti anyone ffs

@TheGreatMaratha

 

[AfrazulMandal]

Count again. 39% is the majority? What do you say about the views of the 61% who didn't want this to be a Hindu country, but a country where Hindus live with their head held high? Like the Muslims? Why do I need to put down @jamahir, or @xeuss, or @Naofumi, or @Mad Scientist 2.0, or @AfrazulMandal to prove my self-worth?

Who's next? The Sikhs? They've already been given the treatment, and the entire nation came out stinking due to that. Should we wallow in that shit once again?

To be honest, I do believe that if a Yes vs No debate is done on a personal basis for the entire Indian population the percentages will be something like 70% - Sanghi, 30% Non Sanghi.

The Hindu majority do not have a conscience. Even the other minorities except Muslims (who are at the receiving end for centuries now) are apathetic at best and complicit at worst.

 

[pothead]

Do you mean to say that the SCs and STs are not Hindus?

Are you even living in India? I certainly have never encountered Saivites, Vaishnavites and Shaktas fighting among themselves. Otherwise, there would be breaking news everyday about that lol.

That's what liberals are...
Their never ending lies were frustrating, then 2014 happened,

Now, it's very funny seeing these Liberal squirm and squeal like little piglets

 

[pothead]

People consider in Hinduism as a religion to defend Hindutva. One can't exist without the other.

The rot is deep and lies in the basics.


Because Hinduism is not a religion.

Just like Nazism and White Racist Apartheid are NOT religions.

Immoral codes of conduct and lack of values/virtues cannot be protected under the garb of 'religion'.

Yes, muslims must preach to us Hindus whether we are a religious body or not.
After all, you have our best interests at heart - don't you?

 

[Ocelot]

There's no Indian Right or Left, they're two sides of the same coin who have similar eventual goals. What they disagree on is the way of approach to the goal.

The 'left' wants it done in a planned, systematic, patient and methodical manner; but the majority lost patience with them so they elected the 'right', who are doing it in a foolhardy, tactless and impatient manner. The left kept it under the radar so as to avoid global flak and keep promoting India as shining/secular entity to the outside world but systematically making the social changes under the table, the right on the other hand is like a bull in china shop, exposed and keeps shooting itself in the feet.

As far as I'm concerned the left/Congress are far more dangerous than the right/BJP/RSS, back in mid-2000s they kept playing aman ki aasha while at the same time restarted the Baloch insurgency and laid the foundation to kill thousands of Pakistanis for the next 7-8 years. At least with Modi we know his intentions, he wears them on his sleeve.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer

Dada,

How about him posting anonymously here?

Regards

LOL.

Why would he want to do that, when everybody and his uncle are asking him to post on well-known Indian journals?

He risks a lot, as he has a lien on his appointment as registrar of AMU. The moment he finishes here, he can go back there and work at his old job.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

A Hindutva India makes Pakistan looks like a most tolerant, pluralistic, egalitarian, holistic, and a most secular state...Godspeed to a Hindutva Bharat.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Yes, muslims must preach to us Hindus whether we are a religious body or not.
After all, you have our best interests at heart - don't you?

Do you guys have any time line to implement that idea of yours?
I mean being a democracy, its easy to conduct poll on this very soon. After that, if everything goes well, everyone else can leave India.

 

[Joe Shearer]

There's no Indian Right or Left, they're two sides of the same coin who have similar eventual goals. What they disagree on is the way of approach to the goal.

The 'left' wants it done in a planned, systematic, patient and methodical manner; but the majority lost patience with them so they elected the 'right', who are doing it in a foolhardy, tactless and impatient manner. The left kept it under the radar so as to avoid global flak and keep promoting India as shining/secular entity to the outside world but systematically making the social changes under the table, the right on the other hand is like a bull in china shop, exposed and keeps shooting itself in the feet.

As far as I'm concerned the left/Congress are far more dangerous than the right/BJP/RSS, back in mid-2000s they kept playing aman ki aasha while at the same time restarted the Baloch insurgency and laid the foundation to kill thousands of Pakistanis for the next 7-8 years. At least with Modi we know his intentions, he wears them on his sleeve.

This is the kind of silly, shallow conspiracy-theory approach that is really deplorable. Until the conspiracy-theory specialists undergo deep therapy, thought processes in public discourse in Pakistan will forever be addle-pated stuff and nonsense.

Do you mean to say that the SCs and STs are not Hindus?

They are Hindus as defined by upper-caste Hindus, and as dominated by upper-caste Hindus. Do you seriously think that they like the conditions in which they live? They may worship the same deities, having been born to do that, but they certainly don't seem to like being told that they are inferior and unfit for anything other than a menial position in life.

Are you even living in India? I certainly have never encountered Saivites, Vaishnavites and Shaktas fighting among themselves. Otherwise, there would be breaking news everyday about that lol.

I don't live in an ivory tower, so I happen to know ground realities. Suppose you stop depending on the Internet to tell you about this breaking news not breaking, and meet the real world?

To be honest, I do believe that if a Yes vs No debate is done on a personal basis for the entire Indian population the percentages will be something like 70% - Sanghi, 30% Non Sanghi.

I doubt that. I think the precise reverse will hold true.

People consider in Hinduism as a religion to defend Hindutva. One can't exist without the other.

The rot is deep and lies in the basics.

I couldn't disagree more strongly.

Hindutva has to do with who belongs to a mythical defined society. It has nothing to do with theology or with cosmogony. Blind and ignorant criticism does not really lead to any understanding.

Because Hinduism is not a religion.

Just like Nazism and White Racist Apartheid are NOT religions.

Immoral codes of conduct and lack of values/virtues cannot be protected under the garb of 'religion'.

Of course, under your introductory definition of Hinduism and Hindutva being one and the same, this is true. The moment anyone steps back and realises the fallacy of that definition, this becomes untenable.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Well, the ship has long sailed.
I doubt Hindus are even 70% in India as of today.

A lot of South "Hindus" are already converted and keep their Hindu name for caste benefits...

So I think it's time to do the needful

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

They banished religion from the private space too, big difference.

Here's the thing with the UCC.. let us scrub all religious laws from the books for all communities, including the Hindus of course and have true secularism.

It doesn't mean the Muslim sharia stuff would be illegal. Those laws pertain to personal matters such as marriage etc anyway. Most Muslims, I'm guessing, will still prefer to do things the Sharia court way when it comes to inter personal disputes, it just won't be codified in the law of the land anymore.

What a successful implementation of the UCC will accomplish, is that it will open avenues, real legal 'law of the land' ones, to true aggrieved parties to seek legal recourse and for real justice to prevail in case a molana rules unfairly, for example.

A quite well to do muslim friend of mine seems to think that a UCC will force them to cremate their dead and forbid all Islamic customs.

Man's just convinced it's out to kill Islam, won't even debate or talk about it.

UCC is pro India, not anti anyone ffs

@TheGreatMaratha

Like the article mentioned, everyone should be brought into the loop first before going with the decision. I too am totally for UCC as long as the laws are the most progressive according to 21st century standards.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Do you guys have any time line to implement that idea of yours?
I mean being a democracy, its easy to conduct poll on this very soon. After that, if everything goes well, everyone else can leave India.

What's the hurry? Why not concentrate on your own programme, and leave us to adopt or to discard this ridiculous stuff as we please?

 

[Awan68]

I understand that.
See Islam ensures a lot, does Pakistan ensure those things as well?
Ideology is one thing, it's implemention is another thing.
All I want to safe our societies(both Pakistan and India) from a series side effects(like killings in 1947).
I say, if majority of a country decides for an idea(just like Germans did in 1939), I will say go ahead. Do it. May be this time, they prove us wrong(and thus many lives will be saved by avoiding that tug of war).
However, if it turned out to be exactly what majority of Pakistan thinks, then it will be the end of India, as we know it.

Pakistan as a state does ensure those things, some incidents happen everywhere with minorities, they happen on a greater frequency in the west, see for recent reference the BLM movement. The thing that matters is if the state is adopting a discriminatory attitude towards a minorty and that has never happened in Pakistan.

Nazis had to be stopped with a world war which claimed millions of innocent lives, if the west had not been parading hitler on the front pages of the time magazine as a revolutionary leader and realized his true face in time, all those lives could have been saved, if u are looking to save lives on both sides then opposing a hindutva state is the most reaonable thing to do because it is evident and as sure as judgment day, if the hindutva state in our nieghbourhood is allowed to endure and if the world does not take notice of it in time, there would be a great catastrophe in South Asia which would threaten world peace.

You need to understand the mechanics of the hindutva state that is in the process of formation in India, it is based upon the ideals of the RSS formed in the 1920's which believes every non hindu must be converted back or evicted from India and here is the most important point "they consider India to include entire Pakistan", hence thier persistent ingress into Balochistan, KPK and Sindh via their proxies, there can be no peace with a Hindutva state because it does not want peace with you, it wants to take over your country.

The blatant stupidity with which they poked Pakistan in feburary despite knowing very well of the "nuclear" consequences gives u a hint of the dysfunctional extremist mind. Had there not been saner heads present in the power corridors of Pakistan, this could have gone a completely different way.

There can be no end to India without a war with Pakistan, the moment things get out of control in India with minorities, they will attack Pakistan to deflect the pressure.

Hope the point got through.

 

[Joe Shearer]

So I think it's time to do the needful

Noted. Do you plan to stand with a placard in front of the Indian Parliament House, or do you intend to go on hunger strike until and unless the needful is done. The conceit of the opening thought is an amusing one; when it gets to suggesting a start date, it became a bit of a public amusement.