In exclusive deal, India to get ‘Most Advanced’ F-16 fighter jets by 2019-20

[ito]

The F-16IN (India) Block 70/72 is an evolution of the UAE's block 60 and modified for the IAF:

The F-16IN (India) Block 70/72 is an evolution of the UAE's block 60 and modified for the IAF:

http://www.sps-aviation.com/mmrca.asp?id=5&h=Lockheed-Martin-Presents-the-F-16IN-Super-Viper

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/not-your-fathers-f-16-take-a-tour-of-the-f-16in-super-1676745840



Nothing has happened to it, the Rafale is still coming to the IAF, the US offers (for F-16 and F-18) are entirely seperate to the Rafale buy (at least 90 are assured for the IAF and another 100 for the IN). The US is pushing hard for their jets to be made in India but that doesn't mean they will be.





120 LCA will be in service by 2025:

If there is a need to induct the LCA at a greater rate then LCA production can be increased.


It is quite clear the F-16,F-18 and Gripen deals have NOTHING to do with a specific operational need but boosting the defence component of this GoI's Make in India policy and attempting to create world class industries in India. Specifcially, it is to boost the private sector's contribution. The Rafale, MKI, FGFA and LCA are for the IAF's operational needs whilst the others (IF they come) are for policy reasons.



@PARIKRAMA

Why India might go for F16, is not because F16 are better than Tejas, but 1) to buy US influence for UNSC, NSG membership etc.. etc.. 2) signal to China on stronger US - India military relationship. I think there is fat chance that India might go for F16 or some other US plane

 

[Abingdonboy]

Why India might go for F16, is not because F16 are better than Tejas, but 1) to buy US influence for UNSC, NSG membership etc.. etc.. 2) signal to China on stronger US - India military relationship. I think there is fat chance that India might go for F16 or some other US plane

There are other ways to "buy influence" with the US, it doesn't have to be by purchasing these outdated planes.

 

[migflug]

see the positive side ! no country is ready to sell any decent defense equipment to Pakistan since last 10 years.

we have engaged all the aircraft suppliers so that they would not sell anything to pakistan.
would be interesting to know how f 16 block 70 competes with gripen ng. although its 40 years old, but nowadays avionics matter much more than the hardware/aircraft itself and the americans are best in it.
all this nautanki for mii and cheap single jet engine. why cant they ramp up tejas production

 

[ito]

There are other ways to "buy influence" with the US, it doesn't have to be by purchasing these outdated planes.

Yes, there are, but I think fighter jets have a different meaning. I am not specifically saying F 16s, but they could be F 18s too. US offered to transfer the whole F16 assembly line to India, a first for US. It says how much US is taking it relations with India seriously.

 

[migflug]

There are other ways to "buy influence" with the US, it doesn't have to be by purchasing these outdated planes.

like buying cj 130 + avengers/predato+ s70 + ge414 production line + 18 p8i+ global hawk triton+ 10-20 old globemaster etc
there are so many options but all we see is f16/18

 

[Abingdonboy]

Yes, there are, but I think fighter jets have a different meaning. I am not specifically saying F 16s, but they could be F 18s too. US offered to transfer the whole F16 assembly line to India, a first for US. It says how much US is taking it relations with India seriously.

What are they actually offering though? IPR? No. ToT? No. JV? No (in the case of Boeing). So other than employment opportunities what benefit is there to India for getting an outdated fighter with a whole host of strings attatched (end user agreements)?

there are so many options but all we see is f16/18

Exactly! I don't get it at all.

As @PARIKRAMA and I have discussed in the past, what would be FAR more benefical would be a full C-130XJ/J production line in India (with TASL) so as to serve te IAF/ICG/IN/CAPF needs now the MTA is offically DOA. Why allow the US dictate what India wants?

 

[Indian009]

BS news. Another PR stuff. Tried to dig info on the news and all showed surprise !!!! The people who know things clearly said "DM has publicly said F-16 is a no go". Although Hindu publishing it is a news to all !!!!!!

 

[ito]

What are they actually offering though? IPR? No. ToT? No. JV? No (in the case of Boeing). So other than employment opportunities what benefit is there to India for getting an outdated fighter with a whole host of strings attatched (end user agreements)?

China's bullying in South China Sea after recent verdict is a warning to US. The US will want a much militarily stronger India, so ToT will flow at much faster pace. Anyway F16 is just a precursor, India might have its eyes on F35.

 

[Abingdonboy]

so ToT will flow at much faster pace

Let's not delude ourselves, India is not in a unique position, the US will always protect their own interests above all else and thus will never give anything like full ToT on the most critical tech.

Anyway F16 is just a precursor, India might have its eyes on F35.

And what use does India have for the F-35? The FGFA and AMCA are already on the table, adding a third 5th gen fighter into the mix will not benefical for the IAF at all and the IN has no interest in the F-35C.

 

[ito]

Let's not delude ourselves, India is not in a unique position, the US will always protect their own interests above all else and thus will never give anything like full ToT on the most critical tech.


And what use does India have for the F-35? The FGFA and AMCA are already on the table, adding a third 5th gen fighter into the mix will not benefical for the IAF at all and the IN has no interest in the F-35C.

I am just speculating. However, F35 and FGFA are in different categories. AMCA is long long way to go.

 

[Allen Iverson]

I feel the F18 E/A super hornet is a far better option if available with full TOT..

 

[PARIKRAMA]

What are they actually offering though? IPR? No. ToT? No. JV? No (in the case of Boeing). So other than employment opportunities what benefit is there to India for getting an outdated fighter with a whole host of strings attatched (end user agreements)?


Exactly! I don't get it at all.

As @PARIKRAMA and I have discussed in the past, what would be FAR more benefical would be a full C-130XJ/J production line in India (with TASL) so as to serve te IAF/ICG/IN/CAPF needs now the MTA is offically DOA. Why allow the US dictate what India wants?

Bro the fact is few things which are being offered to us is really pretty good but then

• we dont have clarity of actual tech access
• we dont have clarity of codes
• we dont have clarity of industrial benefit aspect
• we dont know about restriction
• we dont know if we can use them for N packages/roles
• we dont have clarity if we can use them against US wishes or against former allies of USA/current Ally

I wanted to avoid details but since there is so much already i said (like F22E) that it makes sense to give a bit brief on what is being offered in the F16 specs

Radar -APG-83 Scalable Agile Beam Radar

This is the original radar names for the variants. In our case its APG83 SABR. The Northrop Grumman APG-83 Scalable Agile Beam Radar, a development of the APG-81 in the F-35, is the jewel in the F-16V’s crown. It is Northrop's fourth active electronically scanned array radar, after systems in the F-22, the United Arab Emirates' Block 60 F-16s and then for the F-35.

SABR utilizes a larger-area, high-definition, synthetic aperture radar capability named “BIG SAR.” This alternative mode provides pilots with detailed target areas and digital map displays that can be precisely tailored. This, too, enables greater situational awareness, as well as more flexibility and quicker all-weather targeting.. The tech automatically scans SAR maps to exactly locate and classify targets.

The claims included

• A new modular mission computer,
• New EW electronic warfare system,
• Ground collision avoidance system,
• high capacity Ethernet data bus and an advanced Link 16 datalink with satellite connectivity
• A joint helmet-mounted cueing system,
• Lockheed Sniper targeting pod
• Conformal fuel tanks which can allow the jet to fly for more than 1400 km in mission loads versus earlier 600 km (more than double)

Of course India is clear about technology and codes for radar, stealth, detection, and many other fields including critical engine tech. ANd hence the offer is far from a proper matured offer.

and yes DM MP is still not convinced on LM offer.. especially since such upgrades may come via Singapore F16s which you know train with IAF

 

[Abingdonboy]

I am just speculating. However, F35 and FGFA are in different categories. AMCA is long long way to go.

The AMCA and F-35 are in the same catergory and with 34-40 year life spans it is a certainty that any F-35 inducted into the IAF would operate alongside the AMCA and this would lead to a reduction in AMCA numbers- it just isn't worth it. The FGFA should be fast tracked but the IAF and IN can afford to wait for the AMCA, there is no room for the F-35.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

HAL have their hands full with ramping up LCA production not to mention on going projects like the LCH, ALH, LUH, MKI, Hawks and in the future FGFA. They are already in the process of outsourcing sub-assembly production to the private sector so I doubt they will be that bothered.

Sure, that still didnt stop them from acting up in the C295 deal, did it?

 

[ito]

The AMCA and F-35 are in the same catergory and with 34-40 year life spans it is a certainty that any F-35 inducted into the IAF would operate alongside the AMCA and this would lead to a reduction in AMCA numbers- it just isn't worth it. The FGFA should be fast tracked but the IAF and IN can afford to wait for the AMCA, there is no room for the F-35.

I think you are looking from an operational perspective, as I said, we want US on our side for UNSC and other important membership. Unless, there is a common geostrategic interest in which military angle is quite important, US may not push India into those elite clubs.