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Imran Khan signals desire to build bridges with Washington

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Trump was talking about Pakistan's perfidy in Afghanistan. He stopped being president in 2021. Moscow visit is 2022.

Concern at the lowest level. As concerning as the "Cipher" drama.
donald duxk is that poo stain Donald loo. not Trump.

the cipher has NEVER been denied. has that mofo loo said anything remotely that it didn't threaten Pakistan?
 
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No U-Turn. He hasn't denied the conspiracy, but has said that "it is behind me". That implies "to forget and forego and move forward".
 
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As is often said about Pakistan, it is controlled by the 3 As. Goes without saying that anyone who wishes to be PM has to keep all the 3 in good humour. In that context, IK's remarks are a step in the right direction.

@epebble

The only way forward for IK is if he is standing for election when it is declared, campaign on issues (and not personalities) and win the leadership.

Correct. The Premiership of Pakistan is a poisoned chalice now given the geopolitical and economic circumstances. The Importeds made a blunder by overthrowing IK and forming a govt when they did. IK would be making a similar blunder if he seeks polls now. Best thing is to wait till scheduled poll date. By May, a caretaker govt will be formed and the tough conditions will be over. The Importeds will get all the blame and IK will get credit for the turnaround in its fortunes.

Regards
 
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IK is guilty all right...guilty of naivety. In itself, naivety is not a serious or a fatal flaw especially if displayed by a person of letters such as a poet or an author. For a statesman however, naivety can have fatal consequences both for himself and for his people.

Jinnah displayed naivety when he became an "ambassador for hindu muslim unity". After a decade of of butting his head on the wall and not getting anywhere, Jinnah saw the errors of his ways and turned into a person that would be an anathema to his younger, "liberal" self. The views he expressed would get him ostracized from polite society of our times. And even in his time, INC along with its muslim quislings portrayed Jinnah as a reactionary who was out of touch with the times when conflicts were between classes and between colonizer and its victims rather than between people with two conflicting belief systems. Jinnah refused to give in to blackmail and to shame heaped upon him by polite society and we are all better for his refusal to go along with popular opinion.

Like Jinnah, IK started as an idealist. Jinnah learnt the lesson and was courageous enough to change his view in face of reality, IK otoh sticks to his two decade mantra despite the fact that his foolishness has gotten him nearly killed and put Pakistan on verge of bankruptcy. To succeed in this world, you have to act like Churchill or Nehru or Putin or Deng....the list is endless. Cause of Pakistan cannot be fought while quoting verses from Rumi and such like.

IK wrote a letter to Obama when Obama first became president - the same Obama, who during a campaign, refused to be photographed with two hijabans because he did not want to upset American sensibilities. In the letter, IK expressed his views that Obama's rule would turn out to be different from that of GB2. Obama's response: drone strikes whose number was around 10x greater than that launched under Bush. Although its apologists claim otherwise, US did not become a super power by following dictates of Rumi. And US government officials get very upset when you show them the mirror which points to the gulf between their rhetoric and actions.

First and foremost, IK is fighting the cause of Pakistan which is a third world country with no ability to influence American policy especially with regards to war. US decided to attack Afghanistan after 9/11. There was nothing Pakistan could have done to stop the war. And US would have bombed Pakistan if Al Qaeeda/Taliban leaders took sanctuary in Pakistan.

GWOT started two decades back and is history now. What's the point of going on and on about it? If you tempt the bear, don't cry went it bites back. The fact this simple axiom has to be spelt out to a seventy year old seasoned politician is a good indication of why IK and Pak are in this position.
 
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IK is guilty all right...guilty of naivety. In itself, naivety is not a serious or a fatal flaw especially if displayed by a person of letters such as a poet or an author. For a statesman however, naivety can have fatal consequences both for himself and for his people.

Jinnah displayed naivety when he became an "ambassador for hindu muslim unity". After a decade of of butting his head on the wall and not getting anywhere, Jinnah saw the errors of his ways and turned into a person that would be an anathema to his younger, "liberal" self. The views he expressed would get him ostracized from polite society of our times. And even in his time, INC along with its muslim quislings portrayed Jinnah as a reactionary who was out of touch with the times when conflicts were between classes and between colonizer and its victims rather than between people with two conflicting belief systems. Jinnah refused to give in to blackmail and to shame heaped upon him by polite society and we are all better for his refusal to go along with popular opinion.

Like Jinnah, IK started as an idealist. Jinnah learnt the lesson and was courageous enough to change his view in face of reality, IK otoh sticks to his two decade mantra despite the fact that his foolishness has gotten him nearly killed and put Pakistan on verge of bankruptcy. To succeed in this world, you have to act like Churchill or Nehru or Putin or Deng....the list is endless. Cause of Pakistan cannot be fought while quoting verses from Rumi and such like.

IK wrote a letter to Obama when Obama first became president - the same Obama, who during a campaign, refused to be photographed with two hijabans because he did not want to upset American sensibilities. In the letter, IK expressed his views that Obama's rule would turn out to be different from that of GB2. Obama's response: drone strikes whose number was around 10x greater than that launched under Bush. Although its apologists claim otherwise, US did not become a super power by following dictates of Rumi. And US government officials get very upset when you show them the mirror which points to the gulf between their rhetoric and actions.

First and foremost, IK is fighting the cause of Pakistan which is a third world country with no ability to influence American policy especially with regards to war. US decided to attack Afghanistan after 9/11. There was nothing Pakistan could have done to stop the war. And US would have bombed Pakistan if Al Qaeeda/Taliban leaders took sanctuary in Pakistan.

GWOT started two decades back and is history now. What's the point of going on and on about it? If you tempt the bear, don't cry went it bites back. The fact this simple axiom has to be spelt out to a seventy year old seasoned politician is a good indication of why IK and Pak are in this position.

IK is neither Jinnah nor Obama, just as surely as Pakistan is not USA. Clearly.
 
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As is often said about Pakistan, it is controlled by the 3 As. Goes without saying that anyone who wishes to be PM has to keep all the 3 in good humour. In that context, IK's remarks are a step in the right direction.

@epebble

The only way forward for IK is if he is standing for election when it is declared, campaign on issues (and not personalities) and win the leadership.

Correct. The Premiership of Pakistan is a poisoned chalice now given the geopolitical and economic circumstances. The Importeds made a blunder by overthrowing IK and forming a govt when they did. IK would be making a similar blunder if he seeks polls now. Best thing is to wait till scheduled poll date. By May, a caretaker govt will be formed and the tough conditions will be over. The Importeds will get all the blame and IK will get credit for the turnaround in its fortunes.

Regards
For all we know, IK could be the second coming of Mahatir. But people of Pakistan would still have voted against IK in the next election if IK had stayed on as PM. Reason: people believe rulers have jadoo kee charee that will make Pakistan into South Korea in five years. I saw a vlog by a Pakistan media personality where his guest made the point that South Koreans went to work everyday like they were going to war against the Japanese - their erstwhile colonizer. Meanwhile in Pakistan, awam feels it is doing favour to humanity by staying in the office for five hours.

This RCO is a godsend for Pakistan notwithstanding the three bullets that hit IK's leg and the loss of AS. But even Jinnah was a target of assassination by a fellow muslim. Took over a decade of Mahatir's rule before Malaysians started seeing results on the ground. Will take a similar period before people see any improvement in Pak. By taking the poisoned chalice, opposition has signed its own death warrant, Their action is similar to what INC did when they left state legislatures and launched quit India movement in the aftermath of Hitler's invasion of Poland. Like Jinnah, IK will have the field to himself for the next four to five years. Question is if he adapts to reality of Pakistan or whether he holds on to delusions that he has the ability to influence American foreign policy. Such thoughts will be good for his ego but unfortunately for people of Pak, that course will lead Pak to a blind alley.
 
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People saying this is a U-turn are stupid and don't realize what geopolitical realities are.

IK will HAVE to work with the US regardless of what happened. Better to mend the fence now, before he comes back to power.
 
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reminds me of that one song from 1989…




1,2 ka 4…4,2 ka 1…
 
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IK will HAVE to work with the US regardless of what happened. Better to mend the fence now, before he comes back to power.

The real question here is not whether IK has to work with USA or not, but whether USA has to work with IK or are there other choices?
 
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The real question here is not whether IK has to work with USA or not, but whether USA has to work with IK or are there other choices?
IK is the most popular leader in Pakistan, and his return to power is inevitable. The US has no other choice.
 
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IK is the most popular leader in Pakistan, and his return to power is inevitable. The US has no other choice.

That may eventually come true, sure, but let us wait for the elections, the results and just how the next IK government will work on the "same page", or not, to be able to see whether US has other choices or not.
 
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IK is neither Jinnah nor Obama, just as surely as Pakistan is not USA. Clearly.
Clearly Lincoln was not Washington. Yet countless words have been written by historians comparing personalities of these two great figures from US history. Similarly when looking at British response to rise of Hitler it is standard to compare response of Chamberlain with that of Churchill. So it's perfectly appropriate to study IKs policy with regards to great power of it's time with that of Jinnah. This is basic level analysis.
 
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donald duxk is that poo stain Donald loo. not Trump.

the cipher has NEVER been denied. has that mofo loo said anything remotely that it didn't threaten Pakistan?
You are welcome to post in my thread and I might even like your posts but kindly consider better choice of words in your posts. You are using words that are literally CRINGE to read. It is unfortunate to see adults conversing in this manner - then members wonder why standards of talks are in decline here on PDF. I hope you will take my advice in good faith.
 
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Clearly Lincoln was not Washington. Yet countless words have been written by historians comparing personalities of these two great figures from US history. Similarly when looking at British response to rise of Hitler it is standard to compare response of Chamberlain with that of Churchill. So it's perfectly appropriate to study IKs policy with regards to great power of it's time with that of Jinnah. This is basic level analysis.

And just what are IK's policies?

During his premiership, he now admits that the real authority (and hence the policies) belonged somewhere else. Right now, he seems to be saying everything and anything that he thinks might help him get back into power. Yes, he makes great promises, but there is absolutely no clarity, or durability, in what policies might actually achieve any of what he is promising, just like his first time around.

Even a pretty basic look at the record shows this to be the worrying case.
 
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US strongly condemns shooting of Imran Khan, says Ned Price​



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Imran Khan signals desire to build bridges with Washington​



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US urges India to restore political rights in IIOJK


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Talking points:

1. Positive signals from both sides. Rapproachment is possible.

2. US is important for Pakistan's economy, and can help rebuild Pakistan's economy. Khan understands as much.

3. Lobbying efforts in US shall be revisited. Pakistani Americans can play a constructive role.

Related discussion in following thread:


Constructive dialogue is the way forward. Let us see.

Not going to happen.

The principle difference is IK wants an independent policy, which will naturally drag us closer to china and Russia; not to mention Iran.
Americans are not having any of that; they are on a war footing to alienate the above mentioned countries; economically and diplomatically.
 
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