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Imran calls on President Alvi to define ‘clear operational lines’ for ISPR

What are your thoughts on a presidential system for Pakistan, instead of a parliamentary system?

Like any system, it has its pros and cons, and depends on the unique way Pakistan is likely to implement any system. But it would be impossible to change the current system in any meaningful way in the present situation.
 
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فوج نے ملک کو اندر ہی اندر کھوکھلا کر دیا ہے ۔ ہر محکمے میں گھس گئے ہیں ہر محکمے کو فوج کے نیچے رکھنا چاہیتے ہیں

وزارت خارجہ کا کام بھی کر رہے ہیں
وزارت داخلہ کا بھی

ہر محکمے میں تو یا سرونگ یا ریٹائرڈ آفیسرز لگا دیے گئے ہیں
پاک فوج ایک مافیا ہے بالکل کھلی مافیا
 
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Like any system, it has its pros and cons, and depends on the unique way Pakistan is likely to implement any system. But it would be impossible to change the current system in any meaningful way in the present situation.
@villageidiot , seriously you gonna ask him ? :P
 
فوج نے ملک کو اندر ہی اندر کھوکھلا کر دیا ہے ۔ ہر محکمے میں گھس گئے ہیں ہر محکمے کو فوج کے نیچے رکھنا چاہیتے ہیں

وزارت خارجہ کا کام بھی کر رہے ہیں
وزارت داخلہ کا بھی

ہر محکمے میں تو یا سرونگ یا ریٹائرڈ آفیسرز لگا دیے گئے ہیں
پاک فوج ایک مافیا ہے بالکل کھلی مافیا


They took the space from us or rather the civilians are equally responsible for the creation of this Mafia like working of the Military.

Civilians were brainwashed into believing Army men are the best administrators.

They are the best in management and not corrupt unlike the political appointees.

They are the doers and go getters, they can do a difficult task more efficiently than the civilians, this was all put in our minds over the years.


This all was indoctrinated into our minds by the constant hammering in the media, and a weak, pliable and corrupt political system let them take all the spaces and responsibilities from the civilians.
 
They took the space from us or rather the civilians are equally responsible for the creation of this Mafia like working of the Military.

Civilians were brainwashed into believing Army men are the best administrators.

They are the best in management and not corrupt unlike the political appointees.

They are the doers and go getters, they can do a difficult task more efficiently than the civilians.


This all was indoctrinated into our minds by the constant hammering in the media, and a weak, pliable and corrupt political system let them take all the spaces and responsibilities from the civilians.

Look at what happened on PDF to those who tried you all this over the last decade. Even now, all this outrage is only because one particular side has been booted out, not because it is wrong no matter what. As I have said before, there is now no way to unbake this cake. It is set.
 
They are the doers and go getters, they can do a difficult task more efficiently than the civilians, this was all put in our minds over the years.
Efficiently? They just put people into meat grinders and are taught to not flinch.
Awam is just tikka boti for them.
 
ہر محکمے کو چاہیے اپنے اندر سے فوج کو نکال باہر کرے ۔ اگر کسی محکمے پر فوجی کو لگانے کی کوشش کی جائے تو سب لوگ کام بند کر دیں ۔ فوج ایک کینسر کی طرح سرائیت کر چکی ہے سسٹم میں

یہ دیکھو اور سر پکڑ کر دیواروں میں مارو


Besides the mission in Riyadh going back to a general,
ambassadors in Brunei, Jordan, Syria, Sri Lanka, Ukraine, the Maldives, Nigeria and Libya are retired armed forces officers,


1,027 civilian posts occupied by servicemen

Nasir Iqbal Published October 3, 2003









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ISLAMABAD, Oct 2: As many as 104 serving and retired Lieutenant Generals, Major Generals or equivalent ranks from other services are among the 1,027 military officers inducted on civilian posts in different ministries, divisions and Pakistani missions abroad after Oct 12, 1999 military takeover.
The number of army Brigadiers or their equivalent ranks from the Navy and Air Force is even higher at 160, according to an annexure placed before the Senate library.
There have been 14 ambassadors and a high commissioner from the military ranks during this period.
Of these 1,027 military officers inducted on civilian posts, 27 military officers have been given the prized grade of 22 while 62 officers have been adjusted in grade 21. A whopping figure of 150 officers occupy civilian positions in Grade 20. There are 276 officers between grade 20 and 22 alone. The nature of their jobs varies from deputation, secondment, re-employment to contract basis.
These military officers occupy civilian posts in a situation where, according to Incharge Cabinet Division Raza Hiraj, there are 700 ‘unabsorbed’ surplus civilian employees. There are 33 officers on special duty (OSD) just in grades between 19 and 21.
The range of fields where military officers are working on civilian posts encompasses every sector of human endeavour including communications, education, diplomacy, water and electricity management, information, post office, jails, local bodies, think tanks, industrial production, shipping, minority affairs, population welfare, health, agriculture, railways, highways, housing, labour and manpower, social and women development, law and justice and sub-sectors of sports from cricket to hockey.
A close look at the figures shows that these military personnel occupy 13 posts in the cabinet division, 5 posts in the commerce ministry, 98 in communications ministry, 113 in the defence division, 52 in the defence production division, 9 in the education ministry, 16 in the establishment division, 24 in the ministry of foreign affairs, 6 in the ministry of food, agriculture and livestock. There are 88 military officers working in the ministry of interior, 2 in the health ministry, 6 in the housing and works ministry, 29 in the industries and production ministry, 3 in the information and broadcasting ministry, 58 in the ministry of Information Technology, 25 in the Kashmir affairs and northern affairs ministry, five in the labour and manpower division, 17 in the ministry of minorities affairs, 39 in the ministry of petroleum and natural resources, just one each in the ministry of population welfare, the planning and development division and the ministry of religious affairs. There are two military officials working in the revenue division (CBR), 21 in the ministry of science and technology, 72 in the ministry of railways/railway board, 37 in the ministry of water and power, 5 in the ministry of women development, 6 in the Wafaqi Mohtasib. There are another 37 officers who have been inducted under the military’s 10 per cent quota in civilian posts over and above these appointments.
In the Foreign Affairs 13 Lieutenants and Major Generals were appointed as ambassadors in different countries, while one Brigadier and a Major also got ambassadorial positions. Lt-Gen (retd) Asad Durrani was appointed as ambassador in Riyadh (contract expired on October 2002). Vice-Admiral (retd) Shamoon Alam Khan was appointed as ambassador in Kyiv (up to August 28, 2003), Vice-Admiral (retd) Khalid M Mir was appointed ambassador in Beirut (up to July 2003), Lt-Gen (retd) Nasim Rana as ambassador in Kuala Lumpur (up to July 2003), Air Marshal (retd) Muhammad Farooq Qari as ambassador in Tripoli, Lt-Gen (retd) Agha Jehangir Ali Khan as ambassador in Mexico, Maj-Gen (retd) Shujaat Ali Khan as ambassador in Rabat (up to September 2003), Maj-Gen (retd) Fazal Ghafoor as ambassador in Tashkent (contract expired on April 2002), Maj-Gen (retd) Salim Ullah as ambassador in Abu Dhabi (up to June 2003), Lt-Gen (retd) Mohammad Shafique as ambassador in Bahrain (contract expired on October 2002), Maj-Gen (retd) Muhammad Hassan Aqeel as ambassador in Thailand (up to June 2003), Maj Gen (retd) Syed Mustafa Anwar Hussain as ambassador in Indonesia (up to August 2003) and Maj-Gen (retd) Sultan Habib as ambassador in DPR Korea (up to October 2003).
Brigadier Abdul Majid Khan was appointed as ambassador in Dushambe (contract expired on June 2002), while Major Badruddin was posted as high commissioner to Bender Seri Begawen.
In the cabinet division, Maj-Gen Khalid Bashir was appointed as Member (Tech) Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) (up to November 2001), Maj-Gen Raza Hussain as chairman SUPARCO and Maj-Gen Shahzada Alam Malik as Chairman PTA. These inductions were made on regular basis.
Similarly, in the ministry of communications, Maj-Gen Tariq Javed was inducted as National Highway Authority chairman on November 11, 2000 but was later repatriated. In his place Maj Gen Furrakh Javed was appointed as NHA chief on November 5, 2001 on a secondment basis. He already had served as deputy director general (Dev) in the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA). Likewise, Maj-Gen (retd) Agha Masood Hasan was appointed as Director General Pakistan Post Office on a contract basis, Vice-Admiral Taj Muhammad Khattak was appointed as Chairman Port Qasim Authority (PQA) on secondment, Rear Admiral Muhammad Asad Qureshi was appointed as Director General PQA, Vice Admiral (retd) S Tauquir H Naqvi as Chairman Pakistan National Shipping Corporation (PNSC) on contract, Vice Admiral (retd) S Abaid Ullah Khan as chairman (PNSC) (contract terminated on October, 2000), Rear Admiral Bakhat Ali Jumani was appointed as Executive Director (Ship Management PNSC), Rear Admiral (retd) Sarfraz Khan was appointed as Chairman Gwadar Port Authority (GPA), Rear Admiral Muhammad Nashat Raffi as General Manager Karachi Port Trust (KPT),
Vice Admiral Ahmed Hayat was appointed on a contract basis as Chairman Karachi Port Trust (KPT), but prior to him Vice Admiral (retd) Khalid Mohammad Mir was serving as chairman. Maj Gen (retd) Mohsin Ahmed Vahidy was appointed as Executive Directive PNSC Karachi on a contract basis but he is not serving now, while Rear Admiral Sikandar Viqar Naqvi was appointed chairman PQA (not serving).
Similarly, in the ministry of defence, Lt-Gen (retd) Hamid Nawaz Khan was re-employed on a contract basis as secretary ministry of defence but earlier Lt-Gen (retd) Nasim Rana was serving in this capacity whose contract was terminated on July 8, 2001. Rear Admiral Irfan Ahmad was appointed as Additional Secretary (contract terminated), then Maj-Gen Muhammad Ashraf Chaudhry was made Additional Secretary, defence ministry, on secondment basis.
Maj-Gen Javed Iqbal was appointed as Director General Military Land and Cantonments (ML&C) on secondment but he was later retired. Later, Maj Gen Muhammad Jawed was appointed as DG ML&C on secondment.
Maj-Gen Mahboobul Muzaffar and Maj-Gen Sabihuddin Bokhari were appointed as Surveyor General of Pakistan. After their retirement, Maj-Gen Tariq Javed was appointed in their place on secondment basis. Rear Admiral Arshad Munir Ahmed was appointed Ex-Managing Director Karachi Shipyard (contract expired), Air Vice Marshal S Javed Raza as Director Pre Engineering PIA, AVM (retd) Niaz Hussain Director (Engineering) PIA and AVM Arshad Rashid Sethi as Deputy Director General, CAA (not working).
In the Defence Production Division, Air Marshal (retd) Zahid Anis was appointed as secretary D P Division. Earlier Lt-Gen (retd) Lehrasab was working in his place. Similarly, Maj-Gen Ali Baz was appointed as Additional Secretary D P Division. Earlier, Maj-Gen Rehmat Khan was serving as Additional Secretary D P Division. Maj-Gen M Salimuddin was re-employed after his retirement from the army as Chief Scientists and Scientific Adviser DESTO in place of Maj-Gen Akbar Saeed Awan, while Maj-Gen Syed Ali Hamid was appointed as Director General DEPO on secondment basis while AVM Aurangzeb Khan was appointed Chairman Pakistan Aeronautical Complex board, Kamra.
In the Establishment Division, Maj-Gen (retd) Rahmatullah was appointed as Managing Director Federal Employees Benevolent Fund and Group Insurance. Earlier, Maj-Gen (retd) Inayatullah Khan Niazi was working in his place. Air Marshal (retd) Shafique Haider was appointed as Chairman Federal Public Service Commission (FPSC) while Lt-Gen (retd) Arshad Hussain was appointed Member, FPSC.
Maj-Gen (retd) Sikander Shami was appointed as Director General of Head of Institute of NIPA, Lahore, while Lt-Gen (retd) Sardar Ali as Director NIPA, Lahore, both on a contract basis.
Maj-Gen Muhammad Iqbal Khan was appointed as Managing Director PASSCO on contract in the ministry of food, agriculture and livestock, Maj-Gen Ahsan Ahmad as Director General health on secondment but was replaced by Maj-Gen (retd) Muhammad Aslam also on secondment/contract in the health ministry.
In the interior ministry Maj-Gen (retd) Zahid Ehsan was appointed as Chairman Nadra (posted out) while in the ministry of industries and production Maj-Gen (retd) M Mohsin was appointed as chairman NFC (national finance commission) on contract. AVM Azhar Maud was appointed National Telecommunication Corporation (NTC) chairman.
In the ministry of information and broadcasting Maj-Gen (retd) Jamshed Ayaz Khan was appointed as president Institute of Regional Studies, Islamabad, on contract.
In the minorities, culture, sports, Maj-Gen (retd) Inayat Ullah Khan Niazi was appointed Chairman ETPB (contract expired), while Maj-Gen Anis Ahmad Bajwa was appointed as Managing Director PTDC Islamabad on contract. He had already served as Deputy Chief of Staff to Chief Executive in the Prime Minister’s secretariat.
Lt-Gen Hamid Javed was appointed as Chief of Staff to the President in the president’s secretariat.
Similarly in the Prime Minister’s secretariat Lt-Gen Ghulam Ahmad was appointed as chief of staff to Chief Executive in place of Lt-Gen Hamid Javed.
Maj-Gen Abdul Jabbar Bhatti, Maj-Gen Shafaatullah Shah and Maj-Gen Muhammad Yousaf were also appointed as deputy chief of staff to chief executive. Maj-Gen Haroon Sikandar Pasha was appointed as Director Chief Executive’s secretariat. Maj-Gen Nadeem Taj had also served as Military Secretary (MS) to Chief Executive (posted as MS to the president from January 2002).
Lt-Gen Khalid Maqbool (now Governor Punjab) and Lt-Gen Syed Muhammad Amjad were appointed as Chairman National Accountability Bureau (NAB), while Maj-Gen Abdul Jabbar Bhatti, Maj-Gen Ijaz Ahmed Bakhshi and Maj-Gen Ovais Mushtaq Qureshi, AVM (retd) M Saleemud Din, Maj-Gen Muhammad Sabir, Maj-Gen Nazakat Ali Khan, Maj-Gen Shujaat Zamir Dar, Maj-Gen Syed Usman Shah and Maj-Gen Tariq Bashir, Rear Admiral Ihsanul Haq, Real Admiral Ubaid Sadiq, AVM Masood Akhtar, AVM Zakaullah Khan and AVM (retd) Khuda Dad were subsequently appointed as Director General, NAB
Maj-Gen (retd) Syed Asif Riaz Bokhari was appointed as Member, NRB on a contract basis.
Maj-Gen Parvez Akmal was appointed as Managing Director Oil and Gas Development Company (OGDC) (not working) while Maj-Gen (retd) Syed Usman Shah was appointed as Director General Intelligence and Investigation.
In the railways ministry Lt-Gen (retd) Javaid Ashraf Qazi was appointed as secretary/chairman Pakistan Railways. After his contract was terminated Lt-Gen (retd) Saeeduz Zafar replaced him. On termination of his contract, Maj-Gen (retd) Hamid Hassan Butt was appointed as General Manager M&S PR but his contract too was terminated.
Lt-Gen (retd) Zulfiqar Ali Khan was appointed as Wapda Chairman on secondment/contract while Maj-Gen (retd) M Aslam Zuberi was appointed Adviser in the Wafaqi Mohtasib secretariat (contract expired).
Those who were appointed in the attached departments include Air Marshal (retd) Sharbat A Changazi who was appointed as Director State Life Insurance Corporation of Pakistan and Rear Admiral (retd) Ejaz Husain appointed as General Manager Special Project, Pakistan State Oil Company Ltd.


 
Efficiently? They just put people into meat grinders and are taught to not flinch.
Awam is just tikka boti for them.

They are being taught and instructed that they are superior and better than the average civilians, and ironically civilians are indoctrinated that they are lesser mortals and inferior to Gernails and Kernails.

And the funny thing is a large part of poor masses believed that. It's only now that people are waking up to the reality and this includes village folks and lower middle class too.
 
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