What's new

Important: Negotiations with several countries, including Egypt, to purchase JF-17 Thunder fighter

Funny thing is, F-16 is not a cheap jet. They paid so many dollars to that and than look at the results... They could have brought Su-30 kind of Russian jets with this money... And this russian jets would be have BVR capacity... Really weird. Btw, United States wont sell F-35 to them. Su-57 isnt ready yet. Their only option is China. And I am not sure if China would be okay with that.
Only that they didnt pay a penny ...all those f16 are part of camp david agreement free of cost
 
if the situation becomes bad between Turkey and Egypt, you can always embargo Egypt for us. (It is an option, isnt it?)

No sir, we are will not place embargo on Egypt.
as both Egypt and Turkey are muslim country so we will not embargo anyone.
and IF there will actual war between Turkey and Egypt than be assured that we are not going to side with anyone, just as GCC war with Yemen.
 
The Egyptian Air Force is currently retiring large numbers of its second and third generation fighters; F-7, MiG-21, the Mirage-5, and the worn out F-16s from a fleet of more than 200 fighter jets, plus the not upgraded 15 Mirage-2000 fighter jets.

Certainly, the acquisition of new French and Russian fighter planes such as Rafale and Mig-35 in limited numbers will not suffice to bridge that large gap in the number of fighters assigned to the disengagement. The Egyptian Air Force is looking for a low-cost fighter, and given the situation of the Egyptian economy, which is still in the beginning of the stages of improvement and recovery, the Egyptian Air Force is looking for a low-cost fighter to achieve quantity and quality that it has acquired in the modern French and Russian fighter jets, which can not be purchased in large numbers because of the expensive cost factor This trend is reinforced by the fact that the third and most modern JF-17 fighter Block cost $ 30 million against more than $ 50 million for the Russian MIG 35 and more than $ 100 million for the French RAFALE.

The Egyptian Air Force has expressed interest in acquiring the JF-17 fighter since it appeared to light years ago. However, the unstable political situation, after January 25, 2011, and the unavailability of funding necessitated to stop the talks momentarily. The Egyptian Air Force expressed many reservations regarding the technical specifications of Block I and Block II of the Chinese fighter - made by Pakistan with a license - and was hoping for a more sophisticated version of its predecessors.

In the view of the Chinese side, the upcoming JF-17 Block-3 has greatly improved. It has received qualitative modifications including the AESA active radar matrix, increased internal load of fuel, weapon load, increased wing area and tail set, and integrated navigation system. A more sophisticated electronic warfare package and a new armament package that will include the medium-range PL-15E, which can have a range of up to 200 km and pose a huge threat to AWACS.

So in light of what has been said: Given the capabilities of the Chinese fighter and its presence in the category of Light Combat Aircraft LCA and not medium and heavy fighters such as F-16 and Su-35. And given the accurate information in the news board about the current situation of the Egyptian Air Force, we can say that the possibility of acquiring the fierce dragon FC-1 or JF 17 Thunder as called by Pakistan, with production and local assembly is very logical, for the following reasons:

- To replace huge numbers of Egyptian Air Force fighters due to retire with more than 200 fighters, and in the presence of a fleet of F-16 fighter jets unlikely to be upgraded to a level beyond the Block 52 and will not reach the standard Viper because of the decision of the United States since 2015 not to provide Egypt with a qualitative weapon, more directed weapon against terrorism and countering atypical threats, limiting the Egyptian F-16's capabilities compared to those operating in the service of other air weapons, especially the Israeli Air Force.

- In view of the current acquisitions of the EAF (24 fighter jets expected to increase to 36-48 fighters), the MIG-35 (52 fighters) and the S-35 (expected to be 29 fighters), these numbers are good in terms of quality given the technical development of the above-mentioned models and their allocation to specific tasks, but would not be sufficient to quantify the gap due to the enormous gap referred to earlier.

- Hence, The JF-17 won't be assessed in terms of performance and technical specifications as a first priority, as in the case of medium and heavy fighters. The evaluation will be more focused on the economic and practical aspects because it provides all the conditions mentioned as in the low cost of $ 30 million and thus the possibility of numerical density/quantity..

- The Thunder / Fierce Dragon will serve as a work horse for the Egyptian Air Force to carry out tasks that do not require the use of more expensive types of other fighters that will carry out the main and most dangerous combat tasks, as well as intensifying pilots' training to increase the number of flying hours. Flight hours will not be less than 1,000 hours, for example, as soon as possible and as low cost as possible, and thus pilots become eligible to work on other major air force fighters.

- It is certain that the Thunder will bring with it a complete Chinese armament with the lowest possible political restraints compared to other countries. The Chinese ammunition and missiles themselves are the least expensive in the world (as well as the Pakistani munitions themselves based on the transfer of technical knowledge from China as "Ra'ad" . And the Chinese combat platforms are ready to integrate the Russian armament very easily, which is also characterized by the cost of less than the western counterpart, and contribute to a greater variety of ammunition and missiles, which is not available in this form in the Western platforms..

- The JF-17 will represent the last line of defense of the state in the view of large numbers with the intensive use of various types of munitions at a very economical cost, while the high accuracy and tolerance capabilities of the Western missiles will be compensated by the greater numerical intensity of the Chinese missiles.

- In the event of agreement on co-production, the thunder could be a launch pad for Egypt in the production of a fighter aircraft or even the production of precision parts and components in the aviation industry, as well as the manufacture of smart munitions and missiles, and opens up new horizons in complex military industries.

Thus, the Egyptian Air Force will achieve the required balance in the quantity and quality of high-low-mix with the possession of an air fleet of combat aircraft, which enable it to carry out all the tasks required, and a large variety of weapons systems of different nationalities, which constitute a huge burden on the opponents, which will have to prepare and equip to deal with different types of munitions, unlike if they were from a source or two at a maximum, especially if the source is the US...
 
Last edited:
Can PAF get some of the Egyptian F16's? They are no use to EAF but Pakistan
can get them upgraded from Turkey. If PAF can get 36 used F16's from EAF
it can take their numbers to over a 100?
 
offer them Block II never offer them Block III

they will end up doing bad advertisement for us
Even block III has to be good enough for Egypt to get the deal.. Egypt has its own specs.. remember who are its neighbours..
 
Can PAF get some of the Egyptian F16's?
Oh that topic again, huh.

Been discussed over a 100 times.

If its not Egypt, its Jordan.
If its not Belgium, its Holland.
If its not Venezuela, its Denmark.

Trust me, we've covered every nation and the conditions of their jets. We've covered (if) those nations are willing to sell them to us or not.

Bottom line...the US Congress will Block any sale possible. I doubt they'd even be willing to sell us their own F-16's.

Sorry...
 
No sir, we are will not place embargo on Egypt.
as both Egypt and Turkey are muslim country so we will not embargo anyone.
and IF there will actual war between Turkey and Egypt than be assured that we are not going to side with anyone, just as GCC war with Yemen.

Well, this puts us in a difficult situation. If, you guys really believe we will tolerate you to arm Egypt against us you are delusional. Muslim or not if a state become a threat to us, and if you support them, we will not forget that. Of course I am not saying we will declare war or something but, this state level brotherhood between Turkey and Pakistan will be damaged. Privileges for Pakistan will end. And I must remind you that, there is a ban againt India about export of Turkish made weapons... ''for to support Pakistan'' we Turks, banned the export of offensive weapons to India. So You understand the problem, If you export offensive weapons to an enemy of us and let them use Pakistani weapons against us. This means we can lift the ban... And India can buy everything they want.

Of course, I believe Pakistani Leaders already aware of that and they wont do such thing. But I just wanted you to see the realty. Loyalty is bilateral.
 
Last edited:
Well, this puts us in a difficult situation. If, you guys really believe we will tolerate you to arm Egypt against us you are delusional. Muslim or not if a state become a threat to us, and if you support them, we will not forget that. Of course I am not saying we will declare war or something but, this state level brotherhood between Turkey and Pakistan will be damaged. Privileges for Pakistan will end. And I must remind you that, there is a ban againt India about export of Turkish made weapons... ''for to support Pakistan'' we Turks, banned the export of offensive weapons to India. So You understand the problem, If you export offensive weapons to an enemy of us and let them use Pakistani weapons against us. This means we can lift the ban... And India can buy everything they want.

Of course, I believe Pakistani Leaders already aware of that and they wont do such thing. But I just wanted you to see the realty. Loyalty is bilateral.

Did Turkey apply the same standard to countries selling weapons to Greece or even to Egypt?

Countries don't have bilateral relations that are black and white as your post seems to indicate.
 
Did Turkey apply the same standard to countries selling weapons to Greece or even to Egypt?

Countries don't have bilateral relations that are black and white as your post seems to indicate.

Believe me, we wont forget anything. If let say one day Egypt uses Rafale against us. We will do everything we can to make France pay for that. I must say we dont have a good way to punish them of course. But the thing is, France is not our ''brother country'' so Thats why we wont care that much.

But, Pakistan... Pakistan is a ''brother country'' And I must say we have so many ways to punish you for this betrayel... we wont even do much. Believe me India will run for us, It would be a dream for them... and you will probly find yourself a little bit more ''isolated'' next day.
 
Last edited:
Well, this puts us in a difficult situation. If, you guys really believe we will tolerate you to arm Egypt against us you are delusional. Muslim or not if a state become a threat to us, and if you support them, we will not forget that. Of course I am not saying we will declare war or something but, this state level brotherhood between Turkey and Pakistan will be damaged. Privileges for Pakistan will end. And I must remind you that, there is a ban againt India about export of Turkish made weapons... ''for to support Pakistan'' we Turks, banned the export of offensive weapons to India. So You understand the problem, If you export offensive weapons to an enemy of us and let them use Pakistani weapons against us. This means we can lift the ban... And India can buy everything they want.

Of course, I believe Pakistani Leaders already aware of that and they wont do such thing. But I just wanted you to see the realty. Loyalty is bilateral.
Whoa man, slow your roll. You're practically pulling a gun at us with that, "...we will tolerate you arm Egypt against us".

I think the word 'enemy' is pretty harsh for a nation you have bilateral relations with. Sure, they aren't great at the moment, but its not as if you do not recognize either State or do not have flights, tourism etc.

You guys certainly don't have what we have with India...

As for selling weapons to Egypt..., well that ship sailed a long time back when we sold them the K-8 Trainer. By the way, there are methods the United States has perfected in selling Military Hardware across the Globe & having restrictions while doing so. Enter the: End User Agreement

Pakistan can do the exact same, meaning we sell them the jet, but they cannot use it against Turkey - unless used for Defense, meaning you stay out of their Airspace or a repeat of 27th February could occur in your parts.

Personally, I do not think the Turkish Government will even raise an eyebrow if Egypt takes an interest.

Believe me, we wont forget anything.
We will do everything we can to make France pay for that.
And I must say we have so many ways to punish you for this betrayel... we wont even do much.
I gotta say, your (poor) choice of words are on the offensive.

Just curious, what exactly can Turkey offer India (against Pakistan) that India can't get off Russia & the US at this moment?

You are currently speaking on behalf of an entire Nation - who probably do not share your thoughts.
 
Whoa man, slow your roll. You're practically pulling a gun at us with that, "...we will tolerate you arm Egypt against us".

I think the word 'enemy' is pretty harsh for a nation you have bilateral relations with. Sure, they aren't great at the moment, but its not as if you do not recognize either State or do not have flights, tourism etc.

You guys certainly don't have what we have with India...

As for selling weapons to Egypt..., well that ship sailed a long time back when we sold them the K-8 Trainer. By the way, there are methods the United States has perfected in selling Military Hardware across the Globe & having restrictions while doing so. Enter the: End User Agreement

Pakistan can do the exact same, meaning we sell them the jet, but they cannot use it against Turkey - unless used for Defense, meaning you stay out of their Airspace or a repeat of 27th February could occur in your parts.

Personally, I do not think the Turkish Government will even raise an eyebrow if Egypt takes an interest.

I write that because one of Pakistani guys thought Pakistan can sell offensive weapons, and wont do anything even if there is a fight between Turkey and Egypt. Just because Egypt is muslim... It looks like for him, killing Turks with Pakistani made jets is fine if you are a muslim country. And I showed him the truth. Trainer is not a problem but let say one day Egypt or any other state uses Pakistani offensive weapons against us with the support of Pakistan, muslim or not doesnt matter, we will not tolerate it. Enemy might be a big word for Egypt but I was talking about a possibility as you can see.

I know I was a little bit harsh, but it is necessary to Show you the truth. Like I said I dont believe Pakistani leaders would do such thing. They know what loyalty means.

Whoa man, slow your roll. You're practically pulling a gun at us with that, "...we will tolerate you arm Egypt against us".

I think the word 'enemy' is pretty harsh for a nation you have bilateral relations with. Sure, they aren't great at the moment, but its not as if you do not recognize either State or do not have flights, tourism etc.

You guys certainly don't have what we have with India...

As for selling weapons to Egypt..., well that ship sailed a long time back when we sold them the K-8 Trainer. By the way, there are methods the United States has perfected in selling Military Hardware across the Globe & having restrictions while doing so. Enter the: End User Agreement


I gotta say, your (poor) choice of words are on the offensive.

Just curious, what exactly can Turkey offer India (against Pakistan) that India can't get off Russia & the US at this moment?

You are currently speaking on behalf of an entire Nation - who probably do not share your thoughts.

Well our options are unlimited. Best way would be to stop Supporting Pakistan in world forums, close your access to western weapons permanently and for the exchange having ''offensive- defence equipment agreements with India. They have enough money to make it happen.

Of course I already told you Pakistani leaders wont support any threat against us. But if they do...

Btw, what I said wasnt abnormal, support any country Against China in a fight and the same thing will happen.
 
Last edited:

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom