Importance of Karachi and Karachiites for Pakistan

[criticalerror]

Racists are there only in one community and ethnic group? If few individual in a group or community show racism toward me then should I paint entire group or community with one brush and should start playing ethnic card? I am sure you will never consider altaf hussain as representative of all Muhajir/Urdu speaking community . similarly comment of Indus Pakistan don't mean all Pakistani Pashtun share same views as him

I agree. We shouldn’t use broad strokes and paint the entire ethnicity as bad. But such discussions do bubble up whenever ethnicity is discussed. Hence this topic is better left alone and not spoken about.

I think the mods should close out this thread since it has become a hotbed of racist chest-thumping.

@Dubious wouldn’t you agree? This thread is pointless and only fanning racial tension.

 

[SQ8]

I see where you are coming from. The sudden uptick in racism(or people climbing out of their closets) especially on this forum is sad. But at the same time , i would argue going crazy along with retards is not the way to go. For better or worse, Pakistan is our country and it’s the only one we have and will have. We can make it a better place by educating the said retards on why racism is bad.
Giving to India or the US is not a solution anyone can be ready to face. May it never reach those levels.

Not necessarily- Yugoslavia is a good example where after the whole “this country is ours” tripe now there are fairly prosperous and separate nation states.

This filth will not end and neither will the society that brings them up. There are enough apologists for such racists and racism both here and in real life that the effort to combating it makes no sense.
Moreover, unlike African Americans there is not a case of being stuck in a foreign land or having no support.
Plenty of enemies of Pakistan available with very deep pockets who would be willing to finance both media and armed campaigns.

 

[criticalerror]

Not necessarily- Yugoslavia is a good example where after the whole “this country is ours” tripe now there are fairly prosperous and separate nation states.

This filth will not end and neither will the society that brings them up. There are enough apologists for such racists and racism both here and in real life that the effort to combating it makes no sense.
Moreover, unlike African Americans there is not a case of being stuck in a foreign land or having no support.
Plenty of enemies of Pakistan available with very deep pockets who would be willing to finance both media and armed campaigns.

I can’t go along with any discussion on the merits of the Balkanisation of Pakistan. There is none . I would rather live in Pakistan in its current state then have my “derh eent ki masjid” . Unity is paramount.

 

[SQ8]

Racists are there only in one community and ethnic group? If few individual in a group or community show racism toward me then should I paint entire group or community with one brush and should start playing ethnic card? I am sure you will never consider altaf hussain as representative of all Muhajir/Urdu speaking community . similarly comment of Indus Pakistan don't mean all Pakistani Pashtun share same views as him

I don’t think the racism is limited to Pashtun, Punjab has plenty.. so has Sindh, the Muhajirs of Karachi and some Baloch as well - rather I see racism being a product of socioeconomic inequality bred over the years.
However, it clearly seems that people in general are incapable of getting along with the largest province and with each other so rather than have all these incompatible people suffer it should be either broken up or armed movements let it happen.

After all, Ayub khan being the racist he was added fuel to the fire of what was already a bubbling ethnic tension and finally led to the supposedly “martial races” in the words of these racist leaders laying down arms in front of a mix of 5 foot or vegetarian thin men.

Clearly, this Pakistan experiment will not cope with racism.

I can’t go along with any discussion on the merits of the Balkanisation of Pakistan. There is none . I would rather live in Pakistan in its current state then have my “derh eent ki masjid” . Unity is paramount.

We already have multiple religions in Pakistan who despite claiming to be the same in creed cannot stand behind each other in prayer.

 

[criticalerror]

I don’t think the racism is limited to Pashtun, Punjab has plenty.. so has Sindh, the Muhajirs of Karachi and some Baloch as well - rather I see racism being a product of socioeconomic inequality bred over the years.
However, it clearly seems that people in general are incapable of getting along with the largest province and with each other so rather than have all these incompatible people suffer it should be either broken up or armed movements let it happen.

After all, Ayub khan being the racist he was added fuel to the fire of what was already a bubbling ethnic tension and finally led to the supposedly “martial races” in the words of these racist leaders laying down arms in front of a mix of 5 foot or vegetarian thin men.

Clearly, this Pakistan experiment will not cope with racism.

Racism is not limited to any race and quite prevalent all over the world. It’s an evil. Yet it is prevalent. You might be right about it being a product of socio-economic inequality, but what you propose as a solution is not one at all.
Clearly, Pakistan has withstood it’s fault lines for decades. It is not a “failed experiment “. It has neither failed nor is it an experiment.

 

[criticalerror]

We already have multiple religions in Pakistan who despite claiming to be the same in creed cannot stand behind each other in prayer.

So this is good enough reason to further exacerbate the problem by dividing Pakistan along racial lines? I am sorry but I don’t agree.

 

[SQ8]

Racism is not limited to any race and quite prevalent all over the world. It’s an evil. Yet it is prevalent. You might be right about it being a product of socio-economic inequality, but what you propose as a solution is not one at all.
Clearly, Pakistan has withstood it’s fault lines for decades. It is not a “failed experiment “. It has neither failed nor is it an experiment.

Really?
Have you read the posts of supposed “Elite” members and others here?
Have you encountered being called “Indian”, “Dehshat gard” , “Kafir” and so on?

These aren’t isolated issues anymore - and while all over the world these exist; at the very least they come with better lifestyles.

 

[criticalerror]

Really?
Have you read the posts of supposed “Elite” members and others here?
Have you encountered being called “Indian”, “Dehshat gard” , “Kafir” and so on?

These aren’t isolated issues anymore - and while all over the world these exist; at the very least they come with better lifestyles.

Brother , i am a Pashtun . I have faced alot of racism and put a lot of these said racists in their places. I have read some posts by retards , the senior members i have not seen(apart from Indus Pakistan) make such posts. They may have made those posts, but ask yourself. Should you beat yourself about something some racist a$$hole said? Hell no. You leave them be. Sticks and stones and all that.

 

[SQ8]

Brother , i am a Pashtun . I have faced alot of racism and put a lot of these said racists in their places. I have read some posts by retards , the senior members i have not seen(apart from Indus Pakistan) make such posts. They may have made those posts, but ask yourself. Should you beat yourself about something some racist a$$hole said? Hell no. You leave them be. Sticks and stones and all that.

The issue isn’t sticks and stones - look at PTM for e.g ; the fault lines that existed fueled such movements.
The foot soldiers for such movements come from both paid assets and people who actually buy the narrative.
Those that bought the narrative are the ones you cannot always shoot or arrest, but if you let the ones that inspired them become MPA’s or spread their ideS online - especially when you do have such inequalities and so on then you may never catch up.

All that catch up is human suffering- racism is a fuel to human suffering- their bigotry causes people pain whenever they are or influence those with power: be it a passport office clerk or a chief minister.

Since we as a nation are willing to tolerate it in general because these fault lines exist in a majority; then it’s not worth trying to put through more trouble to keep it together.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Really?
Have you read the posts of supposed “Elite” members and others here?
Have you encountered being called “Indian”, “Dehshat gard” , “Kafir” and so on?

These aren’t isolated issues anymore - and while all over the world these exist; at the very least they come with better lifestyles.

But the ProudIndianGuy @Proudpakistaniguy thinks it began in 1920/1930s ~ nearly 100 years ago.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/uk-r...ll-pakistani-cuisine-with-pride.617237/page-5

I remember @Indus Pakistan calling me Indian few times because of some disagreement but I still gave likes to his others posts which I thought were excellent. We should look at people individually instead of judging them based on their ethnicity .

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[criticalerror]

The issue isn’t sticks and stones - look at PTM for e.g ; the fault lines that existed fueled such movements.
The foot soldiers for such movements come from both paid assets and people who actually buy the narrative.
Those that bought the narrative are the ones you cannot always shoot or arrest, but if you let the ones that inspired them become MPA’s or spread their ideS online - especially when you do have such inequalities and so on then you may never catch up.

All that catch up is human suffering- racism is a fuel to human suffering- their bigotry causes people pain whenever they are or influence those with power: be it a passport office clerk or a chief minister.

Since we as a nation are willing to tolerate it in general because these fault lines exist in a majority; then it’s not worth trying to put through more trouble to keep it together.

The issue is either grab the guy by the throat(communal riots and civil war) or find a better way to educate, like in the west. Granted we are animals so comparisons with the west are not very valid, but the West didn’t arrive where it is over night.

A good example is the US. Did it fall apart when African Americans were sold like cattle? It was a sh!tty time to be in the US. Civil war and economic recessions so obviously people there were also unequal . They didn’t divide into tiny pieces and they are all the better for it. I know this is not a very good example but the US did not disintegrate when conditions were way worse than what you see here.

I generally agree with your analysis of the problem, just not the solution. It’s trouble worth taking if we remain united .

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

So this is good enough reason to further exacerbate the problem by dividing Pakistan along racial lines? I am sorry but I don’t agree.

Yes we should escalate ethnic tension further and should take assistance from India if needed . I am sure they will be more than happy to add fuel to fire

 

[criticalerror]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/uk-r...ll-pakistani-cuisine-with-pride.617237/page-5

I remember @Indus Pakistan calling me Indian few times because of some disagreement but I still gave likes to his others posts which I thought were excellent. We should look at people individually instead of judging them based on their ethnicity .

​

Indus Pakistan should not have been allowed to take it as far as he did , to be ultimately banned on the 400th attempt. I believe this forum should have a similar banning system to religious abuse and other forms of abuse, for racism. Hell i was banned for replying to a racist troll in kind, but the mods were asleep before that. I agree people should be judged for their behaviour and character rather than ethnicity . As Martin Luther famously said

“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”

 

[criticalerror]

Yes we should escalate ethnic tension further and should take assistance from India if needed . I am sure they will be more than happy to add fuel to fire

Exactly the point i was trying to make. You don’t shoot yourself in the foot by succumbing to racist fault lines. You wade through the sh!t and eliminate the racist mentality.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Maybe PTM, BLA and JSQM have a point.. every other ethnicity in Pakistan seems to have to justify itself to this central province and its occupants.

However, it clearly seems that people in general are incapable of getting along with the largest province and with each other so rather than have all these incompatible people suffer it should be either broken up or armed movements let it happen.

The largest/central province and its occupants have no problem with any ethnic group. Everyone is welcome here.
Pakistan's problem is not Punjab or Punjabis... It's a complex mix of Bagehot's mob, Toqueville's tyranny of the majority and the religious right ... in a country 'actually' run by demagogic, military and bureaucratic plutocracy.....

I remember @Indus Pakistan calling me Indian few times because of some disagreement but I still gave likes to his others posts which I thought were excellent. We should look at people individually instead of judging them based on their ethnicity .

Yes, he told me once that I should change my flags to India:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/alex...graeco-bactrians.601039/page-10#post-11164301

For him, everyone who disagreed with him was an 'Indian'
But he is an excellent poster, no doubt about that