Impeachment

[Awesome]

You guys remember how Chowdhary Shujaat and Mush were apparently fighting a lot, and the Q league seemed all but ready to disintigrate? Sheikh Rasheed openly dissed the President as well.

Musharraf brought all of them back together by promising re-elections by August. I don't think re-elections this soon is a possibility but at least dismissing the government would be a start... But such a move would only come after a failure to impeach <zardari style>GENERAL MUSHARRAF</zardari style>

 

[BATMAN]

I'd imagine the intention of these idiots is to place Nawaz as President and have Zardari become Prime minister.

Can be a termed as historical wonder!
Sharif named Zardari Mr.10&#37; and kept him in jail for all those years.
I hope they will have ample time to discuss old time stories when they will be living next doors.

 

[JK!]

Here is what may unfold over the next few weeks: BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Impeachment hopes and fears

Impeachment hopes and fears

The decision by Pakistan's new ruling alliance to impeach the country's President, Pervez Musharraf, has sparked jubilation as well as fears across the country.

If current opinion polls are anything to go by, Mr Musharraf has become the most unpopular leader in the country's history.

His public standing suffered a setback in March 2007 when he sacked Pakistan's chief justice.

It hit rock-bottom when he sacked nearly 60 judges eight months later to prevent them from overturning his re-election as president.

But he has been the chief of the Pakistan Army - the institution that has often acted as a major power broker in the country's politics during its 60-year history.

Mr Musharraf is seen as a favourite of the US. Many Pakistanis consider American political and financial support to have been a decisive factor in keeping the country's successive military rulers in power.

He also has the constitutional power to sack the government and the parliament on grounds of corruption and incompetence.

And by his own admission, he is a trained commando who never gives up without a fight.

Unwinnable vote

So has the ruling alliance left any room for Mr Musharraf to manoeuvre?

The measures announced by leaders of the alliance - which includes the Pakistan People's Party, the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz and some smaller parties - combine consensus building with legal procedures to oust Mr Musharraf.

Two simultaneous actions have been recommended.

The first is a move to get all the four provincial assemblies to adopt resolutions asking President Musharraf to seek a fresh vote of confidence from the parliamentary electoral college - which comprises the provincial assemblies and the two houses of the national parliament.

There is no way Mr Musharraf can win such a vote, given the composition of the present electoral college.

At the same time, the government says it has called the national parliament into session next Monday. That, according to Information Minister Sherry Rehman, "may start the impeachment proceedings".

Investigating committee

According to the law, half the members of either of parliament's two houses can table a motion for presidential impeachment by submitting a charge-sheet against him, which must be conveyed to the president within three days.

Subsequently, a joint sitting of both houses must be called not earlier than seven days, and no later than 14 days, to consider the charges and decide how to investigate those charges before putting the motion to a vote.

The parliament can appoint an investigation committee comprising its own members, or call upon extra-parliamentary individuals to conduct the investigation on its behalf.

Before the vote, the president can choose to appear before the parliament or the investigating committee to defend himself.

In the ensuing vote, a two-thirds majority is required from both houses to unseat the president.

Although there are no time limits, it is thought the complete impeachment process would take a minimum of eight days.

If complicated investigation procedures are involved, legal experts suggest the process could take more than a month.

Resign or fight back?

Would the process allow sufficient time for the never-say-die president to fight back?

He has two options:

Resign in the best democratic tradition, following the example of presidents faced with impeachment elsewhere in the world.
Or fight back, as he appears bent upon doing.
In the latter case, he can either indulge in horse-trading to wean precious votes away from the ruling alliance, or he can simply sack the government and the parliament.

His best bet would be to go for the horse-trading option.

While the ruling alliance is confident it will be able to muster the required vote to oust him, Mr Musharraf's parliamentary allies say they can deny his opponents the required two-thirds majority.


Sack parliament?

If the impeachment motion is defeated, that could decisively alter the political dynamics of the country in favour of Mr Musharraf and the military establishment, analysts say.

But public opinion trends suggest voters may side with the ruling alliance.

So will Mr Musharraf take the drastic step of sacking the government and the parliament?

Analysts are generally of the view that he will not.

Doing so would risk causing a major crisis in the country, where the civil society has long conducted a sustained anti-Musharraf campaign, and where the political forces opposed to him won a major election victory only four months ago.

In these circumstances, even the army may not come to his aid, for two reasons:

Firstly, the army is not as popular an institution in Pakistan as it was in the past because of its role in stifling democracy throughout the 1990s. It will be more concerned with rehabilitating its image in the post-Musharraf period.
Secondly, having failed to subdue the militants in the north-west when Mr Musharraf was in control of the government, the army now needs popular political support to combat the insurgency.
As for the US, Washington has already indicated it might switch from its dependence on military rulers to a wider interaction with the Pakistani civilian leadership.

 

[opinion786]

All this political drama ..... a meeting b/w the two crooks.... after every one month..... hue & cry in media ..... impeachment theories.... are all efforts to divert the minds of the public from the Ata, electricity, inflation problems, economy deterioting, etc .....

With the crooks hoping, that Musharraf makes one hasty decision, and the crooks get to become innocent MAZLOOMS once again. Public memory sure is short!

 

[dabong1]

Only the problem here is that those who are trying to get rid of him are just as much of disasters as him. You have to be kidding yourself if you think that NS and Zardari can do better than him. Zardari and NS have paralyzed the country over this Musharraf deal. Why is it such a big problem? Why not focus on the judges issue first which is of real significance to the nation? The President has already been pushed to the side. He is no longer interfering (if ISI fiasco was avoided due to his interference then more power to him).

Pakistan is being played to the hilt by the two biggest opportunists (Zardari and NS). Pakistani people, living up to their reputation of being sheepish are once again being herded into another debacle with this impeachment effort.

Mushy has got us this point not NS or AZ.......They have only been in power for a couple of months so dont try to put the blame on the two for mushy's failures........are you people that pro mushy that you can find a single fault in mushy?...personality cult is what they call it.

 

[blain2]

Mushy has got us this point not NS or AZ.......They have only been in power for a couple of months so dont try to put the blame on the two for mushy's failures........are you people that pro mushy that you can find a single fault in mushy?...personality cult is what they call it.

Got us to which point? Mushy is no longer steering the boat and even then we are not moving away from "this point" so how come? This is not about Musharraf. This is about making sure that Mr.10&#37; and Mr useless (after all that is what he is after his two useless stints in the PM's office) are not left calling all the shots.

Also on the issue of Musharraf, why is impeachment all of a sudden the single most important thing facing the country? What happened to the oil crises, the strikes against Pakistan's sovereignty, terrorism in Baluchistan? How is Musharraf holding back those in office from dealing with these issues of national import?

The reality is that Zardari just got backslapped by the Army and the President for the ISI fiasco and now this is being done to put pressure on Musharraf. Musharraf has made many mistakes but none of them are unforgivable. If you can let a dunce (NS) back into the political fold after two useless tours as the PM of the country, I am sure there is room for Musharraf.

What happens after Musharraf goes? We get rid of Shamshad Akhter like we did with Munir Akram and many other able folks just because they continue to get in the way of Zardari's fiefdom (which recently has extended to all of Pakistan)? Your alternates are not looking good Dabong even after Musharraf goes.

I am not saying the above just so for Musharraf's survival. There is plenty more at stake here than one person.

 

[Interceptor]

How is what he is doing any different than what is being done now by a democratically elected government with the so called nation's "mandate"?

The lowest number of attacks on Pakistani cities, the lowest number of Pakistani dead, the lowest casualty rate of our Military, a sign of unity, a mandate made from elected alliance to defeat the problems facing Pakistan, someone listens, we can watch tv with out looking at a black screen, a lot less protest taking place, a consensus building in NWFP and Baluchistan.

We know that there is some kind of alliance with US, which in the past was made of military aid, and weapons deals, a new phase of diplomatic process with the US.

We are still using force in Baluchistan and there are no signs of rapprochement with the militants there. We are going after the Tribals in the Northwest at the behest of the US (as was claimed by Musharraf's detractors when he went after these crackpots) just as we were before and things are actually worse now because of the indecision on the part of the current government, the economy is chugging along with no new policies or efforts to better it...I mean who are you trying to kid here with this talk of damage and disaster during Musharraf's tenure?

There is a change, a change that shows the need to not harm our people, instead target the enemies, there is change the government sits among those leaders that were jailed on the basis that they were leaders, musharraf's reason to kill Bugti was that he use to blow up pipelines, did that stop after his death, killing leader will never resolve the issue instead it will replace it with an even crueler leader or worse a into unseeble force, force is applied but it is measured, it is thought out an used where enemy infest, it is put forward after consensus building and approached in those affected regions, if negotiation can bring peace than use them, Z.B Bhutto freed 93.000 Pakistani soldiers and land, what has it not made, it has always made crisis into disagreements, these are Politicians and they have only one weapon that is negations, Jinnah's Pakistan is now two due to force.

What was done prior to Musharraf was catastrophic in terms of harm to the country and we are lucky that something like 9/11 did not happen during the decade of 90s otherwise Pakistan would have been an invaded country not too unlike Iraq and Afghanistan.

Pakistan was split into two, that was chaotic, our army fell in enemy hands that was chaotic, but we built a better Pakistan.

It is only due to democracy that we have courage to fight and strength to build, non of your dictators could build that. You decided to side with Musharraf and I decided not that to is reason enough to show what power democracy has, the reason to choose, where was this country heading when he wasn't around, 9/11 perks have become curse to our country, look how much life we lost, in the short war we fought for WoT we lost 10.000 soldiers and 1000 citizens to provoked attacks, lead by the people who Dictators supported.

A similar incident did happen during the 90s, and only diplomacy paved understanding.

On the judiciary issue, you are missing out on facts. Why are you complaining about him replacing the judiciary and putting his hand picked ones in now? Why was the same concern not there when Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry took his oath under Musharraf's PCO of 2001? If that was not problematic then why is it problematic for him to bring in new judiciary (I am debating facts here, not public opinion which in many cases (including this one) is based on ill-informed assumptions in Pakistan) now?

That mentality just shows, we made a constitution and we want it to be supreme not an individual, you should also know the facts behind ousting of CJP, it was due to the Privatization corruption charges, missing persons cases and Musharraf's eligibility... Ring a bell. Who cares if they were PCO, they were the first to become a force that was one to be reckoned against feudal powers that control this country, why should I be picking PCO up, they them said we would tear the PCO apart, tell me did they have a choice when Musharraf imposed PCO?... did we have a choice when Marshall law was imposed, that disgraced our then PM, NO... They were given perks to do Musharrafs dirty work and they did.

Factually speaking, Musharraf's detractors have nothing of substance. What they are hoping to do is to ride the anti-Musharraf/impeachment bandwagon on emotional basis.

He is not a person that wants Pakistan to secure a future, he is person that is willing to sacrifice it for his future, he has sat for nearly decade, and could not change one thing, people like ZAB who change the world only born and brought to light by the will and wants of the People and thrive on the hearts of people, what do expect from Musharraf he used Bhutto's speeches, and in his book he called Bhutto second class, he is liar he brought chaos to this country.

While I can understand that Musharraf is only a person and not Pakistan itself, however I am extremely worried about the characters left in charge of the country once he is gone. Zardari is an opportunist who will sell his mother to get what he wants for himself...the guy has never cared about Pakistan in his entire life, I just do not see a change of heart.....Nawaz Sharif is as petty as he was the first time he was elected. He has the brains of a sparrow (Shahbaz Sharif would be a good replacement for him) and our Gilani sahib is useless. So I do not see any promising faces out there.

That is undiceded, for the last few months that this government has been in power it has only been dealing with issues that were left by th dictatorship.

1. Unprecedented militancy in Pakistan.
2. Power crisis in Pakistan.
3. Highest crime rate in Pakistan ever recorded.
4. Judges Issue.
5.Judicial people don't trust "Dogra" or "Droca".
6.WoT
7. Privatization of Pakistani organs.
8. Missing persons cases.
.....The list goes on....

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Musharraf Impeachment Bid May Prompt Army Move to Avoid Crisis

By Khalid Qayum and James Rupert

Aug. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf faces the battle of his political life after foes united yesterday on a plan to impeach him -- a fight that may prompt the army he once commanded to intervene to avert a crisis.

The two parties that dominate the National Assembly ended five months of infighting and said they have enough votes in parliament to remove Musharraf. The president canceled a planned visit to the Beijing Olympic Games, and Pakistani television said he met with aides as his allies in parliament vowed to defend him.

If Musharraf fights back by invoking his power to dissolve parliament, ``certainly it could lead to a civil-military crisis in the country,'' said Lisa Curtis, who researches Pakistan at the Heritage Foundation in Washington. ``The military could step back in and take over.''

Since Musharraf relinquished direct control of the army in November, the military hasn't overtly participated in politics, ordering officers to avoid contact with candidates in the February elections that put the president's opponents in control of parliament.

The military is unlikely to use force to back Musharraf, as it did in the 1999 coup that brought him to power, said Rashed Rahman, a Lahore political commentator. An order by the president to dissolve parliament would cause a political uproar the army would want to avoid, Rahman said.

Quiet Pressure

Instead the army's chief of staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, may quietly press Musharraf to step down to avoid the risk of political turmoil, said retired Lieutenant General Talat Masood, a political analyst.

An impeachment, unprecedented in Pakistan's 61-year history, would remove a central figure in the ``global war on terror'' that U.S. President George W. Bush launched after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The U.S. State Department called the impeachment move ``an issue for the Pakistani people to decide.''

Divisions between the Pakistan Peoples Party and the Pakistan Muslim League of former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif let Musharraf cling to power after those parties won parliamentary elections. As they join forces, ``the role of the army would be critical,'' said Stephen Cohen, a South Asia specialist at the Brookings Institution in Washington.

Musharraf's spokesman was unavailable after Sharif and the PPP's Asif Ali Zardari, the widower of slain former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, announced the impeachment plan. The Foreign Ministry said Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani would go to Beijing in Musharraf's place.

Musharraf's Party

Chaudhry Pervez Elahi, a leader of the party formed six years ago to back Musharraf, said it would fight impeachment, calling it ``no service to democracy.''

Sharif, ousted in Musharraf's coup, and Zardari have been at odds over how to oppose the president. The rift has stalled efforts to combat terrorism, especially along the border with Afghanistan, and improve living standards for the nation's 163 million people as food prices surged.

A Musharraf ouster would ``lead the government toward the freedom of catering to the real problems of the masses,'' said Ishtiaq Ahmed, associate professor of international relations at Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad.

Zardari said the parties will issue detailed charges against Musharraf in the coming days. They have accused him of violating the constitution with his coup and with the state of emergency he declared in November.

Two-Thirds Majority

The coalition parties say they have more than the two-thirds majority -- 295 of 442 votes in parliament's two champers -- constitutionally required to remove Musharraf. The coalition holds 294 seats and can count on support from enough independent lawmakers to muster 303 votes for Musharraf's ouster, said Ahsan Iqbal, spokesman for Sharif's party.

Zardari asked Sharif, whose ministers quit the Cabinet in May after failing to agree on impeaching Musharraf, to rejoin the government. The former prime minister said he would decide on that today.

A 64-year-old former general, Musharraf has been under pressure to quit since he fired 60 judges, including Supreme Court Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammed Chaudhry, last year as the court prepared to rule on the legality of his re-election.

Musharraf had pledged to seek a vote of confidence from the parliament elected in February, and Zardari criticized his failure to do so, citing it as a basis for impeaching him.

`Unconstitutional'

``Musharraf is an illegal and unconstitutional president,'' Sharif said. ``How can such a man remain president?''

Since January, the government has faced criticism for a slowdown in economic growth, a widening budget deficit and an inability to rein in inflation running at a 30-year high. Musharraf had been credited with steering Pakistan's economy out of trouble in 1999 when the government had less than $1 billion in foreign-exchange reserves. Those reserves rose to $14 billion in mid-2007, then fell to $9 billion in June.

``Musharraf's policies have brought Pakistan to a critical economic impasse,'' Zardari said.

Investors have also turned against the government. The rupee had its worst month since September 2000 in July in part because of surging crude oil prices. A plunge in the benchmark stock index to a two-year low triggered violent protests outside the Karachi Stock Exchange and forced authorities to place limits on trading and form a state-backed fund to buy stocks.

To contact the reporter on this story: Khalid Qayum in Islamabad at kqayum@bloomberg.net; James Rupert in Islamabad at jrupert3@bloomberg.net.

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

 

[ejaz007]

Where will Fahim go from here?
Friday, August 08, 2008
By Rauf Klasra

ISLAMABAD: Why is PPP leader Makhdoom Amin Fahim making discordant noises in support of President Pervez Musharraf on TV channels? This question has started to haunt many PPP leaders and watchers.

But the more important question is which way an angry Makhdoom Amin Fahim and his sympathisers in parliament will swing?

This tricky question is being asked now with more seriousness after the dramatic announcement of Asif Zardari on Thursday to impeach Musharraf as all eyes are set on MAF, who has been a very vocal critic of PPP leader's moves in the recent months.

For many, MAF is now facing the most difficult test of his political wisdom to decide whether to go with the political forces now united to get rid of Musharraf, or stand by with his old friend who since 2002 tried on a numbers of occasions to elevate him to the office of the prime minister of Pakistan.

One political insider believes that MAF may abstain from the proceedings of impeachment of his old friend Musharraf, which may soon be started in a bid to prove that like Asif Zardari he too was a "friend of the friends" and would not vote against Musharraf with whom he shared many good moments during the last six years.

Amin Fahim has never hidden his soft corner for President Musharraf with whom he has been holding many secret meetings since 2002, first on the behest of Benazir Bhutto, then Asif Zardari and finally on his own initiative. After the MQM and the PML-Q, he was the only political leader who is still not in favour of impeachment of Musharraf. That was why, hardly two days back, he did not forget to issue a statement to justify the presence of Musharraf in the presidency and his opposition to the impeachment.

The love bond between Musharraf and Amin Fahim, both are whom are born under Leo Zodiac sign, had started before†the general elections in Pakistan in 2002, when he had started meeting the top guns of the regime in a bid to form the PPP government at the centre. Many believed that a simpleton MAF was used by the secret agencies spooks to jeopardise the possibility of an electoral alliance between the PPP and the PML-N to contest the election from a joint platform. Even, at one stage the possibility of an election alliance was almost in the sight, but MAF was convinced by the secret agencies that if the PPP contested the contest alone, it might be acceptable to the establishment forces led by Musharraf.

MAF did not disappoint his friends in agencies as he too successfully sold this theory to Benazir Bhutto, who despite her willingness to work with Nawaz, could not dare to differ with her political lieutenant, who in those days was dealing with the establishment on her behalf. After these elections in Pakistan, MAF had again played a major role in arranging several meetings between Asif Zardari and top guns of Musharraf. A detained Zardari had held many secret meetings with the top guns of ISI in dark nights along with MAF. He had even disappeared one night from his room in PIMS, Islamabad. A panicked Benazir Bhutto had created a big hue and cry in Washington that her husband was kidnapped from hospital room and his life was in danger. But, later it emerged that her spouse was actually holding key meetings with the secret agencies officials to bargain for the future government.

During these meetings, MAF was offered to become the prime minister as a major condition to let the PPP form a government at the Centre. MAF was also told he would not keep contact with Benazir Bhutto. After Benazir rejected the plan to make him the prime minister, MAF was offered to ditch the PPP and get the slot of prime minister and his son would be made chief minister Sindh. But, full marks to MAF who did not enter into any such deal with Musharraf. But, these secret meetings enabled both Musharraf and MAF to develop personal liking for each others as Musharraf felt that MAF was not a shrewd man like many politicians and he might exploit him for his continuation in office. MAF always took the credit that he enabled Benazir and Asif to get some concessions through such backdoor channels and his late night meetings with Musharraf.

In the last five years, Benazir Bhutto used MAF links with Musharraf to strike a better deal and get the NRO issued.

Even, when MAF was accused of holding secret meetings with Musharraf after the assassination of Benazir last year, he had bounced back and told his critics that he was meeting with Musharraf on the exclusive direction of both Benazir and Asif.

Where will Fahim go from here?

 

[Neo]

COUNTDOWN BEGINS: Asif, Nawaz shrug off 58(2)b threat; Musharraf to be asked by national and provincial assemblies to seek vote of confidence; impeachment to be followed by reinstatement of judges​

ISLAMABAD, Aug 7: Leaders of the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) and the Pakistan Muslim League-N (PML-N) have agreed to begin impeachment proceedings against President Pervez Musharraf, charging him with violating the Constitution, weakening the federation and other state institutions and causing a critical economic impasse.

“The coalition believes that it has become imperative to move for impeachment under Article 47 (of the Constitution),” PPP co-chairman Asif Zardari said at a news conference he addressed here on Thursday along with his partners in the ruling coalition, including PML-N chief Nawaz Sharif, after three days of hectic dialogue.

On the other hand, President Pervez Musharraf again cancelled his visit to China where he was due to attend the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics.

Hours before the announcement of the impeachment decision, the foreign ministry announced that Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, instead of President Musharraf, would attend the Olympics ceremony.

Mr Zardari read out a ‘joint communique’ issued after the final round of talks with his coalition partners and said he had asked the PML-N to rejoin the cabinet — to which Mr Sharif would respond after consultations.

The communique contains a complete plan for impeachment proceedings and an outline of the charge-sheet that will be presented along with a resolution for impeachment in a joint sitting of parliament.

All the four provincial assemblies will adopt resolutions demanding that President Musharraf should seek a vote of confidence immediately in accordance with a commitment made in the Supreme Court.

The coalition decided to initiate the process if the president failed to take a confidence vote.

Mr Zardari did not give dates for convening the sessions of the national and provincial assemblies.

However, according to sources, the government is planning to convene the sessions on Aug 11 because it wants to complete the process of impeachment by the end of the current month.

The coalition claimed to have the required strength in parliament to impeach the president.

“We have the numbers and we have the courage and will to do it,” was Mr Zardari’s reply to a question.

However, at one point he said that he had 90 per cent hopes that the plan would succeed.

The coalition leadership resolved to reinstate “strictly in accordance with the Murree Declaration” all the judges removed through “extra-constitutional means” by Gen Musharraf on Nov 3 (last year).

The step would be taken immediately after the president’s impeachment, said Mr Zardari.

“I don’t think the coalition and democracy are so weak that any person can use Article 58-2(b),” said Mr Zardari in response to a question about the possibility of the president dissolving the assemblies.

He warned that if the president invoked the article it would be his “last act against Pakistan and its people”.

Mr Sharif, in an apparent reference to the dissolution of the assemblies in the past, said it was not the 1980s and 1990s. He said frequent military takeovers had weakened the country.

When asked whether the coalition wanted to hold a trial of President Musharraf after his ouster, Mr Zardari said the matter would be decided by parliament.

In response to a question if the coalition had the backing of the United States and the army for the move, Mr Sharif said they did not require any NOC (no-objection certificate) from any country or person for impeaching the president.

According to the communique, the coalition felt that the people had given a clear mandate in the Feb 18 elections in favour of democratic forces and voted for a change through the ouster of Gen (retd) Musharraf by defeating his ‘King’s party’. In spite of his clear commitment that he would resign if his party was defeated in the elections, he continued to cling on to the office of the president. Notwithstanding the constitutional position of his election on Oct 7 (last year) from an outgoing parliament, he made a clear-cut commitment through his attorney before the Supreme Court that he would get a vote of confidence from the newly-elected assembly, which he failed to do.“He also failed to address the new parliament as required under Article 56 of the Constitution,” Mr Zardari said.

“The economic policies pursued by Gen Musharraf over the past eight years have brought Pakistan to the brink of a critical economic impasse. The incompetence and failure of his policies have thrown the country into its worst power shortage in history.

“His policies have weakened the federation and eroded the trust of the nation in national institutions. He has worked to undermine the transition to democracy through collusion with the King’s party, which was rejected by the people of Pakistan,” the communique said.

The coalition partners resolved to implement the Charter of Democracy signed by Mr Sharif and late PPP chairperson Benazir Bhutto to work together to steer the country onto the path of constitutional governance; to restore the supremacy of the Constitution, independence of the judiciary and rule of law; to avert the impending economic crisis which the coalition inherited on March 31 and to fight the menace of price hike, unemployment, poverty, and loadshedding.

“The coalition also agreed to address the volatile situation in Fata and the NWFP with policies shaped by the legitimacy of a consensus in parliament,” it said.

Haji Adeel of the Awami National Party (ANP), Rehmatullah Kakar of the Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam (JUI-F) and MNAs Noorul Haq Qadri and Hamidullah Afridi from the Federally Administered Tribal Areas were also present.

Meanwhile, senior PPP leader Makhdoom Amin Fahim once again warned his party’s leadership against taking the ‘extreme step’. Talking to DawnNews TV, he said the “coalition is playing with fire”. He was of the view that the move would result in confrontation among state institutions.

Senator Nisar Memon of the PML-Q said his party had voted for Mr Musharraf and it would fully defend him in parliament. He alleged that the coalition had announced the impeachment plan only to divert the attention of the nation from the real issues and to hide its failure.

When asked about the options available with the president, the senator said he would do whatever was in the nation’s interest.

Expressing ‘disappointment’ over the joint communique, a lawyer said a similar pledge had been made on March 9 after the signing of the Murree Declaration and the real test would be whether it would be implemented in letter and spirit.

COUNTDOWN BEGINS: Asif, Nawaz shrug off 58(2)b threat; Musharraf to be asked by national and provincial assemblies to seek vote of confidence; impeachment to be followed by reinstatement of judges -DAWN - Top Stories; August 08, 2008

 

[Awesome]

The lowest number of attacks on Pakistani cities, the lowest number of Pakistani dead, the lowest casualty rate of our Military, a sign of unity, a mandate made from elected alliance to defeat the problems facing Pakistan, someone listens, we can watch tv with out looking at a black screen, a lot less protest taking place, a consensus building in NWFP and Baluchistan.

The long march happened under your government, long march II happened, Karachi serial bombing happened, 156 schools got burned, SWAT II is happening...

Musharraf's chaos is chaos, and your chaos is nothing? You're actually going to sit there and say that Pakistan is even an inkling of improvement since Feb 18?

We know that there is some kind of alliance with US, which in the past was made of military aid, and weapons deals, a new phase of diplomatic process with the US.

Don't even talk about the US. Yesterday NS was asked "Have you taken permission from the US for Musharraf's impeachment". NS was so embarassed and went on a self-righteous diatribe "Yeh sawaal hi mazaak hai, boohoo".

The whole country knows our leaders are tied to puppetteer strings that go through UAE and Saudi all the way to America.

There is a change, a change that shows the need to not harm our people, instead target the enemies, there is change the government sits among those leaders that were jailed on the basis that they were leaders, musharraf's reason to kill Bugti was that he use to blow up pipelines, did that stop after his death, killing leader will never resolve the issue instead it will replace it with an even crueler leader or worse a into unseeble force, force is applied but it is measured, it is thought out an used where enemy infest, it is put forward after consensus building and approached in those affected regions, if negotiation can bring peace than use them, Z.B Bhutto freed 93.000 Pakistani soldiers and land, what has it not made, it has always made crisis into disagreements, these are Politicians and they have only one weapon that is negations, Jinnah's Pakistan is now two due to force.

Look murderers have to be killed. If you've killed ONE Pakistani, then there's no point of talking peace. That is the trouble with your party. You guys are ready to sleep with scum as that's the easy way out.

Pakistan was split into two, that was chaotic, our army fell in enemy hands that was chaotic, but we built a better Pakistan.

It is only due to democracy that we have courage to fight and strength to build, non of your dictators could build that. You decided to side with Musharraf and I decided not that to is reason enough to show what power democracy has, the reason to choose, where was this country heading when he wasn't around, 9/11 perks have become curse to our country, look how much life we lost, in the short war we fought for WoT we lost 10.000 soldiers and 1000 citizens to provoked attacks, lead by the people who Dictators supported.

A similar incident did happen during the 90s, and only diplomacy paved understanding.

Look Musharraf has his own clear evils. I don't think no one sides with him without knowing that it's like siding with several demons as well. The thing is you've sided with the devil himself!

That mentality just shows, we made a constitution and we want it to be supreme not an individual, you should also know the facts behind ousting of CJP, it was due to the Privatization corruption charges, missing persons cases and Musharraf's eligibility... Ring a bell. Who cares if they were PCO, they were the first to become a force that was one to be reckoned against feudal powers that control this country, why should I be picking PCO up, they them said we would tear the PCO apart, tell me did they have a choice when Musharraf imposed PCO?... did we have a choice when Marshall law was imposed, that disgraced our then PM, NO... They were given perks to do Musharrafs dirty work and they did.

Haha, your party won't allow CJP because of the corruption angle as well. He will come and disband the NRO! CJP wasn't sidelined for the corruption charges against PML-Q, Musharraf won't put in his neck for the sake of PML-Q, but its because of the missing persons cases. He started freeing known terrorists!

He is not a person that wants Pakistan to secure a future, he is person that is willing to sacrifice it for his future, he has sat for nearly decade, and could not change one thing, people like ZAB who change the world only born and brought to light by the will and wants of the People and thrive on the hearts of people, what do expect from Musharraf he used Bhutto's speeches, and in his book he called Bhutto second class, he is liar he brought chaos to this country.

That is undiceded, for the last few months that this government has been in power it has only been dealing with issues that were left by th dictatorship.

1. Unprecedented militancy in Pakistan.
2. Power crisis in Pakistan.
3. Highest crime rate in Pakistan ever recorded.
4. Judges Issue.
5.Judicial people don't trust "Dogra" or "Droca".
6.WoT
7. Privatization of Pakistani organs.
8. Missing persons cases.
.....The list goes on....

When will you take ownership of these issues? It's been a long time you've been in power. What have you STARTED to do about these issues? I'm not talking about resolution but what have you even discussed as a resolution of these issues?

Look all things aside, impeach him if you can! You can't! Your own party President, Ameen Fahim has shined his rear end in your face. Pir Pagara will quit the alliance as well.

Even if you go by the Joint vote of Senate and the NA you guys have 303 votes of a needed 295. That means Mush just needs to trade 9 horses, which already seem more than willing to do so.

One side there's a union of:

PPP, PML-N, ANP who are not united

On the otherside there is:

Musharraf, PML-Q, MQM, Army, ISI who are all united.

who do you think is gonna win?

Are you so sure that 9 of your party members won't quit this unholy alliance? Given Fahim's comments yesterday? Hamid Mir kept pounding him "Kya aap impeachment ki tehreek ka saath deinge?" and he couldn't say yes!

It's gotta really hurt, that PPP's band bajaing will be done by its own President!

 

[cactuslily58]

Can someone educate me on the option of Musharraf not doing anything at all.

Will the required Nos be garnered to impeach him ?

 

[BATMAN]

^^Dear Asim, what is you opinion about any chances of US supported horse trading, same what we have witnessed in indian confidence vote!
We know the in Pakistan's every protester is paid based on his background, sex and age.
Infect some times same people protest from both sides.

IMO, it is a small minority trying to hijack the majority.
Look at Jamat-islami they secured smallest number of votes/seats but when it comes to protests they always managed to amass people equal to much larger parties and when it comes to make noise they never stop.
Type of voilence we have witnessed from other parties after the death of BB is relatively new.
We need to crush this minority with force in respect to majority peaceful population.

 

[EagleEyes]

Amin Fahim does not support the impeachment process. Nor does he think that impeachment will help Pakistan in the time of crises when national interest are more important than the party's interests. Pakistan first is the call here.

 

[Awesome]

Technically Musharraf has no future in Pakistan till he's ousted and comes back as a political opponent.

He has the lowest popularity out of Nawaz, Zardari, Asfandyar, Musharraf group.

Our's is a nation that changes popular leadership like fashion. "Let's try him on, now let's try him on".

We've got no national agenda. Zombies, ready to follow the next carrot and stick.

The US CAN help him out if they still think he's IT. But Zardari's the one trickster whom Musharraf hasn't been able to size up fully. He handled BB and NS quite well, but not Zardari. Zardari may already be in the American bag himself.

Remember horse trading would commence in both ways, PML-Q leaders would start lining up for the "coalition" as well.

Ameen Fahim only has the Sindh government, it would take strong efforts on his behalf to steal some votes from the NA.

They have 303 out of 295.

Best bet is for Musharraf to argue that the impeachment process is to be from Senate separate and NA separate. Musharraf today anounced that he would address the Parliament and fight for his case. This would have been beneficial for Musharraf since record has it he's never lost a public debate.

However in the parliament there would be so much of desk thumping, hooting and shouting that it would be of no use. They won't let him speak. Remember the last time Farooq Leghari addressed the National Assembly... Twice? It's going to be a similar scene.

illiterates ke bachon ko hakoomat milgai hai.