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Impeachment

This charade is entirely motivated by the lust for revenge by both Asif Zardari and Nawaz Sharif.

Sure they are in charge of two of the largest political parties but due to their criminal status they didn't take part in elections and rightly so.

Then why are they calling the shots of this new "coalition government? " They are the ones with a complete disregard for democracy not Musharraf.

They are the civilian dictators in charge of a puppet government responding to their every whim and they are set to plunge Pakistan into damnation.
 
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:rofl: Talk about paranoia. for starters: Arcelor-Mittal is a European comany. Not Indian.


I meant the Ambanis . The Indian Reliance group.


AS far as Mittal is concerned isnt Lakshmy Mittal having over 80 % of the Arcelor-???


"CEO Lakshmi Mittal's family owned 88% of the company. Mittal Steel was based in Rotterdam but, managed from London by Mittal and his son Aditya. It was formed when Ispat International N.V. acquired LNM Holdings N.V. (both were already controlled by Lakshmi Mittal) and merged with International Steel Group Inc. (the remnants of Bethlehem Steel, Republic Steel and LTV Steel) in 2004. On 25 June 2006, Mittal Steel decided to merge with Arcelor, with the new company to be called Arcelor Mittal. The merger has been successfully approved by shareholders and directors of Arcelor making L.N. Mittal the largest steel maker in the world."
 
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I meant the Ambanis . The Indian Reliance group.


AS far as Mittal is concerned isnt Lakshmy Mittal having over 80 % of the Arcelor-???


"CEO Lakshmi Mittal's family owned 88% of the company. Mittal Steel was based in Rotterdam but, managed from London by Mittal and his son Aditya. It was formed when Ispat International N.V. acquired LNM Holdings N.V. (both were already controlled by Lakshmi Mittal) and merged with International Steel Group Inc. (the remnants of Bethlehem Steel, Republic Steel and LTV Steel) in 2004. On 25 June 2006, Mittal Steel decided to merge with Arcelor, with the new company to be called Arcelor Mittal. The merger has been successfully approved by shareholders and directors of Arcelor making L.N. Mittal the largest steel maker in the world."

The company is headquartered in London.

No...Mittal is not an Indian agent.
 
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Interceptor... You should be happy it is just internet and a forum...

Why shouldn't we remember how corrupt Nawaz and Zardari are? So they might have been elected but they hardly represent democracy or peoples people... They are here ti fill pockets and bliam others. They have ruined everything rebuilded in years by others. They are the lowes ***** on can imagine. Did you see how pathetic Nawaz was looking at the press conference? And he whole answering of questions was at the pathetic level ... I hip Musharraf says away from these corrupt and failed people. I remember how Nawaz had his tail between his legs when he met Clinton... And Zardari is just a economical terrorist... :)
 
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Lets just hope that Musharraf stays in power. A check and balance system is what the country needs and specially the newly developed democracy, otherwise we might have to see another coupe in the country as we know once Musharraf is gone, the extent of corruption that will prevail in the country, army will not sit back and enjoy the show while the country is being wrecked, it will once again stand up to defend the integrity of Pakistan so lets just hope that the collation partners could take their heads out of their *** and start focusing on the real issues, issues that demand more attention not judiciary and certainly not impeachment.
 
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Revoking NRO will automatically result in arrest of many. Mr. 10% may end up with maximum term.
I would favor this move first and 58-2b next and elections will follow automatically.

BTW, Musharraf can win any refferundum now. Ruling coalition is highly unpopular among masses.

Great, thinking sir,BATMAN. :tup:
I fully, agree with you but would like to add some more points, yes i favour 58-2B immidietly, plus... NEW ELECTIONS should be delayed for the period of 3 years, all the political activities should be stopped.
no, more acceptence of MR, 10% OR MR, 100%, NAB should be allowed to run properly, no EXTERNAL PREASURE from any one should be accepted including USA at any cost
Rethinking of our AFGHAN policy, & WAR OF TERROR should be linked with KARZAI GOVTs. force full actions, against DRUG MAFIA in AFGHANISTAN ..... specially those in KARZAI admin :agree::tup:
 
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I am right in thinking that if the nawaaz/asif z try to impech mushy they accept the constitution......if thats the case then do they also accept that mushy can dissolve the parliment.

I really hope they get rid of mushy.......the guys a walking disaster

Only the problem here is that those who are trying to get rid of him are just as much of disasters as him. You have to be kidding yourself if you think that NS and Zardari can do better than him. Zardari and NS have paralyzed the country over this Musharraf deal. Why is it such a big problem? Why not focus on the judges issue first which is of real significance to the nation? The President has already been pushed to the side. He is no longer interfering (if ISI fiasco was avoided due to his interference then more power to him).

Pakistan is being played to the hilt by the two biggest opportunists (Zardari and NS). Pakistani people, living up to their reputation of being sheepish are once again being herded into another debacle with this impeachment effort.
 
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Easy solution line them up then:

:sniper: Zardari

:sniper: Bhutto Zardari

:sniper: Sharif

(apologies for the low quality post just venting anger)
 
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US hopes pinned on Musharraf
By Syed Saleem Shahzad

KARACHI - Since assuming office at the beginning of the year, Pakistan's coalition civilian government has gone to extreme lengths to develop a consensus for the impeachment of President Pervez Musharraf, the general who until February had ruled the country after staging a coup in 1999.

The coalition, led by the Pakistan People's Party (PPP) and former prime minister Nawaz Sharif's Pakistan Muslim League-N (PML-N), want Musharraf to be held accountable for last year imposing a state of emergency and sacking the judiciary.

To reassure Washington and secure its continued support, the politicians even tried to clip the wings of the powerful Inter-Services Intelligence, and sent Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on an unscheduled visit to the United States in an attempt to convince the George W Bush administration that the "war on terror" could be fought without Musharraf.

Washington, however, has other ideas, and Musharraf remains central to them as the point man for smooth and direct coordination between Pakistani and American forces to sort out the Taliban's and al-Qaeda's sanctuaries in North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) and beyond on the border areas with Afghanistan. These sanctuaries are vital in supporting the Taliban-led insurgency in that country.

Bickering between the PPP and the PML-N has to date prevented them from agreeing on Musharraf's impeachment, but intense negotiations over the past few days are expected to result in a united move to have him removed from office. In this tense situation, Musharraf canceled a trip to Beijing to attend the opening of the Summer Olympic Games on Friday, but then reports emerged that he would attend the ceremony.

Washington will be watching developments with acute interest. Since the US-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, Musharraf has sided with the US in its "war on terror", and Washington believes he is still the man to deliver.

Musharraf stepped down as chief of the army last November and officially holds few executive powers - these reside in the prime minister's office.

However, Musharraf retains support in the military and in the civilian bureaucracy. Beyond loyalty to the man himself, he is a force to be reckoned with as American economic and military aid worth billions of dollars flows though the president's office.

Washington has gone as far as telling the new army chief, General Ashfaq Parvez Kiani, and Premier Gilani that its contact is Musharraf, through whom the money flows. Major General Mehmood Ali Durrani, the national security advisor and immediate past Pakistani ambassador to Washington, is second overseer of the aid money and looks after operational matters related to their distribution.

It is these men the Bush administration wants in a renewed effort to once and for all deal with the militancy in NWFP and the tribal areas.

Acting US Central Command commander Lieutenant General Martin Dempsey and Central Intelligence Agency deputy director Stephen Kappes recently visited Pakistan. Contacts familiar with these developments tell Asia Times Online that several approaches to the NWFP were discussed.

One was that "extraordinary measures" might be adopted, under which the president would exercise extraordinary powers embedded in the constitution to abandon all provincial assemblies and instead of holding fresh elections impose a state of emergency in the country, citing militant-led violence in the NWFP.

Another approach would be to use the existing democratic system and somehow install the sub-Pashtun nationalist and secular Awami National Party (ANP), led by Asfandyar Wali Khan, in the government.

First, though, the ANP, which rules the NWFP, would have to be given special powers to deal with the militancy in its province. This would be done through the president's office in Islamabad. The relatively liberal ANP is anti-Taliban and supported the pro-Russian government in Afghanistan in the 1980s and early 1990s.

Much then depends on Musharraf retaining his position, and how the Taliban and al-Qaeda respond to any increased powers that the ANP administration might turn against them.

Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can be reached at saleem_shahzad2002@yahoo.com

Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan
 
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He wanted to be President, than let him be.:lol:

By constitutional terms the President should present himself to the newly elected Parliamentarians, what is complaining now for.:lol:

Now you see Pakistan being destabilized:tsk:. You wont have stability when you have traitors among you, I warned you that killing leader will not resolve the issues in Baluchistan or NWFP, what did Musharraf end up doing was Murdering Bugti and other prominent leader, he discarded the Judiciary, he put in a new Judiciary that was made of yes sir's and goonda agenda, he did this all for his stay in power. I cant even start on the mess he left in Baluchistan, NWFP, Sindh, Punjab and Azaad Kashmir:frown:, he needs to leave quietly as he has done enough damage.

How is what he is doing any different than what is being done now by a democratically elected government with the so called nation's "mandate"?

We are still using force in Baluchistan and there are no signs of rapprochement with the militants there. We are going after the Tribals in the Northwest at the behest of the US (as was claimed by Musharraf's detractors when he went after these crackpots) just as we were before and things are actually worse now because of the indecision on the part of the current government, the economy is chugging along with no new policies or efforts to better it...I mean who are you trying to kid here with this talk of damage and disaster during Musharraf's tenure?

What was done prior to Musharraf was catastrophic in terms of harm to the country and we are lucky that something like 9/11 did not happen during the decade of 90s otherwise Pakistan would have been an invaded country not too unlike Iraq and Afghanistan.

On the judiciary issue, you are missing out on facts. Why are you complaining about him replacing the judiciary and putting his hand picked ones in now? Why was the same concern not there when Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry took his oath under Musharraf's PCO of 2001? If that was not problematic then why is it problematic for him to bring in new judiciary (I am debating facts here, not public opinion which in many cases (including this one) is based on ill-informed assumptions in Pakistan) now?

Factually speaking, Musharraf's detractors have nothing of substance. What they are hoping to do is to ride the anti-Musharraf/impeachment bandwagon on emotional basis.

While I can understand that Musharraf is only a person and not Pakistan itself, however I am extremely worried about the characters left in charge of the country once he is gone. Zardari is an opportunist who will sell his mother to get what he wants for himself...the guy has never cared about Pakistan in his entire life, I just do not see a change of heart.....Nawaz Sharif is as petty as he was the first time he was elected. He has the brains of a sparrow (Shahbaz Sharif would be a good replacement for him) and our Gilani sahib is useless. So I do not see any promising faces out there.
 
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I'd imagine the intention of these idiots is to place Nawaz as President and have Zardari become Prime minister.
 
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We will loose nothing! Musharraf is not any more employee of army!
Musharraf is civilian President and 58-2b is the constitutional right of any President.
Next parliament will be civilian, majority support Musharraf, so what’s the problem?

If Musharraf hold refferundum on one simple question:
Please choose your leader:
1- Sharif
2- Zardari
3- Khan
4- Qazi
5- Fazal ur Rehman
6- Wali
7- Amin fahim
8- Musharraf

choice number 8 will have maximum votes.

Bat,

Somehow the outside powers will punish Pakistan and the Army even if the President of Pakistan dismisses the govt. What you say can be used technically but most other countries wont buy it.

As far as the list goes, in this unfortunate land of ours, nobody remembers the past. Currently the most immature politician of them all is the most popular (I.E. Nawaz Sharif). Musharraf would come in 2nd, however 2nd most popular is not good enough and even Amin Fahim may be able to manage that.

Ideally I would like to see Musharraf wait things out. Lets see what "Zardari Sharif" duo can manage. If things look serious then by all means can NRO as that by itself would be a popular decision and may win more friends for Musharraf (even though it would be a late step...people really do want to see all these thieves behind bars).

If NRO is repealed, I think the political landscape will change so much that the question of impeachment will not remain there.

Obviously there remains a possibility that the anti-Musharraf crowd may just steamroll through these obstacles...at that point I think Musharraf should leave. Article 58-2B would actually set us back further. I hope that there is no need for it.
 
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Crisis? What crisis?

Guys, did anyone catch Ameen Fahim on Capital Talk. He made a phone appearance.

Hamid Mir(in Urdu of course): We're hearing this rumor that you're not so happy about this impeachment move
MAF: See, actually Pakistan is not in a good shape right now, this is not the time for such confrontationalist actions, I want to see people working towards feeding the hungry, restoring power, etc.
HM: You see you're again indicating that you won't be voting against Musharraf
MAF: You know you can't just impeach a president you need to prove that he is unfit for office, physically or mentally and so many other complicated things
HM: Ok ok, MAF I'll ask you this, do you support impeaching the President at all, when the time comes will you do it?
MAF: Well I've not made up my mind and when the time comes I'll tell you.

That's a NO in political talk. His reputation in PPP was at stake but he still wouldn't outright deny it!

The coalition has 303 votes, they need 295 (even if you go by the coalition formula of joint senate and parliament impeachment vote).

So 6 votes will be taken out by Pir Pagara. And if Ameen Fahim throws the gauntlet, then he'd probably take out 10-20 more votes along with him.

Especially Sindh Government will fall to Musharraf with Ameen fahim and MQM at the helm.

I don't think Musharraf can invoke 58-2b now. Once the impeachment vote fails, then he can. Not now.
 
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