Impact of current IAF

[Best of the Best]

Dear members and my fellow friends i have opened this topic to discuss with you the impact that the current IAF purchases would cause on the already weak PAF. as we all know that the IAF has rasied its MRCA contract from 126 planes to 200 that alone would cause a major impact on PAF not to mention IAF is in search of two different plat form's to be more open two different multi role machines which would give the already mighty IAF a major edge against its long standind rival PAF.

I need not to mention how many different types of weaopon's IAF would get its hands on every thing from Air to air to Air to ground.......i would like to know what our fellow members think regarding IAF's current purchases and its impact on the PAF and what should PAF do to counter or balance IAF current purchases plz i need intelligent post's and i would prefer you to have real facts in your post's rather than fantasies........

 

[Sharjeel]

if the PAF feels uncomfortable it will raise the issue. and i am certain that PAF is confident of success in its mision goal.

 

[Thunder]

You're forgettinh that pakistan is not the only country india is enemy with. China and bangladesh are also it's enemies and india needs those borders to be secured too. If IAF operates something like 600 fighters, almost 400 of them will be placed by the chinese-indian and bangladeshi- indian border. So it's not all that you thinkg it is.

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by Thunder@Nov 29 2005, 12:22 AM
You're forgettinh that pakistan is not the only country india is enemy with. China and bangladesh are also it's enemies and india needs those borders to be secured too. If IAF operates something like 600 fighters, almost 400 of them will be placed by the chinese-indian and bangladeshi- indian border. So it's not all that you thinkg it is.

[post=3977]Quoted post[/post]​

80%+ of indias assets are oriented towards us at this moment.

 

[ISI2003]

in a war, we will only get token military support but our allies will apply political support

so we have to be independlty military strong

110 f-16's and now 250 jf-17's are not enough we need at least 3 squadrans of rafales (40 planes) to form the edge

with these 400 we will have a force enoguh to defnd our territory all the time and also be able to carry out strike

this capabilities gave the PAF the ability to win the 1965 war for pakistan, and if we go for the rafale, we can be able to defend ourselves in any future war (god forbid)

 

[Thunder]

Originally posted by ISI2003@Nov 29 2005, 12:51 AM
in a war, we will only get token military support but our allies will apply political support

so we have to be independlty military strong

110 f-16's and now 250 jf-17's are not enough we need at least 3 squadrans of rafales (40 planes) to form the edge

with these 400 we will have a force enoguh to defnd our territory all the time and also be able to carry out strike

this capabilities gave the PAF the ability to win the 1965 war for pakistan, and if we go for the rafale, we can be able to defend ourselves in any future war (god forbid)

[post=3980]Quoted post[/post]​

Yaar this is a paper war. And in paper wars, it's always the guy with the strong stuff who wins. In reality do you really think PAF will send it's pilots to fight against IAF MKI's. Hell no. They would probabley first destory as many indian air feilds as possibile by cruise or ballistiac missiles. After that is the time when PAF will be told to go nuts. But then there is always a chance that the indians might do the same with our airfeilds

 

[EagleEyes]

Originally posted by ISI2003+Nov 28 2005, 07:51 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ISI2003 &#064; Nov 28 2005, 07:51 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>in a war, we will only get token military support but our allies will apply political support

so we have to be independlty military strong

110 f-16&#39;s and now 250 jf-17&#39;s are not enough we need at least 3 squadrans of rafales (40 planes) to form the edge

with these 400 we will have a force enoguh to defnd our territory all the time and also be able to carry out strike

this capabilities gave the PAF the ability to win the 1965 war for pakistan, and if we go for the rafale, we can be able to defend ourselves in any future war (god forbid)

[post=3980]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b]

Whenever we talk about getting the edge from IAF or atleast properly defend our selves Rafales come in our mind, but we all know that ACM has refused or at least he doesn&#39;t think that government will provide enough funds for Rafales. Gripen seems to be the only choice, supported by J-10, as we all read on the image of the article. Dont you guys think that Gripen supported by J-10 would be good enough for us in the future? Note on the side we will have 110 F-16s no matter even if they are delayed or not, ok fine. At least 90 F-16s will be fully operational and they a mix of MLU and new ones. And then finally on the other side we will have our JF-17s which will be pretty decent for air strikes, etc.

<!--QuoteBegin-Thunder@Nov 28 2005, 08:06 PM
Yaar this is a paper war. And in paper wars, it&#39;s always the guy with the strong stuff who wins. In reality do you really think PAF will send it&#39;s pilots to fight against IAF MKI&#39;s. Hell no. They would probabley first destory as many indian air feilds as possibile by cruise or ballistiac missiles. After that is the time when PAF will be told to go nuts. But then there is always a chance that the indians might do the same with our airfeilds

[post=3982]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]

True, PAF wont be sending its pilots to fight with MKI in Indian territory, but yeah they will send a group of modern fighters supported by AWAC&#39;s then i dont see any trouble, the only advantage MKI in my opinion is the BVR combat and once it disappears, its over for MKI, dont you think? True, the other factors should also be realized like combat range, hard points, but it seems that we can defend the threat of MKI in the war scenerio if the decent aircrafts (J-10, Gripen, Block 50) are supported by AWAC&#39;s.

 

[ISI2003]

Originally posted by Thunder@Nov 28 2005, 09:06 PM
Yaar this is a paper war. And in paper wars, it&#39;s always the guy with the strong stuff who wins. In reality do you really think PAF will send it&#39;s pilots to fight against IAF MKI&#39;s. Hell no. They would probabley first destory as many indian air feilds as possibile by cruise or ballistiac missiles. After that is the time when PAF will be told to go nuts. But then there is always a chance that the indians might do the same with our airfeilds

[post=3982]Quoted post[/post]​

we might not want to engage a MKI or a bunch of them, we would would go after their bases

but what if 15 MKI&#39;s enter Pakistani airspace and try to bomb sargodha

if they have advanced jamming, they could avoid SAMs

what would PAF do against an attack like that, 5 rafales and 10 f-16 could do decent against these planes

and on a CAP mission, a rafale coud monitor the borders passively and could act as a Mini awacs even without using its radar as it would detect RF signals, along with a decent radar
--------------

40 rafales as the top tier, 110 f-16 as the middle tier and 250 jf-17 as the lower tier would all work great, especially with the awacs would be perfect

-------------
consider the opposition; 190 MKIs, 210 MRCAs, 126 LCAs, 100 Mig-29s, 100 Mirage 2000s (so far)

the MRCA is probably an AESA Equipped fighter with advanced ECM
-----------
no other plane can handle this as well as the rafale

40 Rafales are equal to about 75 J-10, and the rafale can do the job
---------------
psycholocally indian pilots will fear the rafale, and in defense and offense we need that edge to maintain the balance

PAF fears the MKI and probably the MRCA as it is shaping up

 

[Kashif]

Originally posted by ISI2003@Nov 29 2005, 08:01 AM
we might not want to engage a MKI or a bunch of them, we would would go after their bases

but what if 15 MKI&#39;s enter Pakistani airspace and try to bomb sargodha

if they have advanced jamming, they could avoid SAMs

what would PAF do against an attack like that, 5 rafales and 10 f-16 could do decent against these planes

and on a CAP mission, a rafale coud monitor the borders passively and could act as a Mini awacs even without using its radar as it would detect RF signals, along with a decent radar
--------------

40 rafales as the top tier, 110 f-16 as the middle tier and 250 jf-17 as the lower tier would all work great, especially with the awacs would be perfect

-------------
consider the opposition; 190 MKIs, 210 MRCAs, 126 LCAs, 100 Mig-29s, 100 Mirage 2000s (so far)

the MRCA is probably an AESA Equipped fighter with advanced ECM
-----------
no other plane can handle this as well as the rafale

40 Rafales are equal to about 75 J-10, and the rafale can do the job
---------------
psycholocally indian pilots will fear the rafale, and in defense and offense we need that edge to maintain the balance

PAF fears the MKI and probably the MRCA as it is shaping up

[post=3989]Quoted post[/post]​

Mattey all games start from money if Pakistan have enough money then they can buy any fighter.
All which PAF needs if a good radar on its F-16s i.e., AESA its has a range more then the MKI range may be in this way MKI would avoid to go offencive they would try to be defencive.PAF has same old fationed ACs which have same 9 hardpoints and again PAF is going to aquire the same planes i.e the thunders and F-16s.J-10s are ok but they can only accompany the Thunders not the F-16s there must be a fighter which can go infront of the F-16s or in line of F-16s

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Thunder@Nov 29 2005, 05:22 AM
You&#39;re forgettinh that pakistan is not the only country india is enemy with. China and bangladesh are also it&#39;s enemies and india needs those borders to be secured too. If IAF operates something like 600 fighters, almost 400 of them will be placed by the chinese-indian and bangladeshi- indian border. So it&#39;s not all that you thinkg it is.

[post=3977]Quoted post[/post]​

I don&#39;t agree with the author at all.

400 jets on the eastern border????

Dear Thunder with Sino-India never gonna have any air war. The neares Chinese airbase to India is Lhasa and there also PLAF haven&#39;t deployed advance jets like Su-27/30. Besides China dosen&#39;t have any base near India and launching an air offence from Lhasa against IAF will cause a too much damage for the PLAF.

IAF Eastern sector has quite a good airbases and decent aircrafts to look after the Dalladeshi&#39;s. Even if Dalladesh goes for Su-30 with advance avionics, IAF pilot skills and air defences all the Dalladeshi aircrafts will be taken care off.

Check the below map of IAF airbases in India.

<div class='bbimg'></div>

Thanks,

Miro

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Yahya@Nov 29 2005, 05:40 AM
80%+ of indias assets are oriented towards us at this moment.

[post=3978]Quoted post[/post]​

I agree. Previously IAF was only having Western Command to look after PAF.

Now IAF has also created a South-Western command which was derived from the Southern and Western command of IAF.


<div class='bbimg'></div>

Map of IAF South-Western Command

<div class='bbimg'></div>

MAP of IAF Western Command.

<div class='bbimg'></div>

MAP of IAF Central Command which will be backing both of the above commands in case of war.

Thanks,

Miro

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Thunder@Nov 29 2005, 06:06 AM
Yaar this is a paper war. And in paper wars, it&#39;s always the guy with the strong stuff who wins. In reality do you really think PAF will send it&#39;s pilots to fight against IAF MKI&#39;s. Hell no. They would probabley first destory as many indian air feilds as possibile by cruise or ballistiac missiles. After that is the time when PAF will be told to go nuts. But then there is always a chance that the indians might do the same with our airfeilds

[post=3982]Quoted post[/post]​

I am sorry but I don&#39;t agree with your Cruise/Ballastic missile idea.

If PAF launch offensive against the IAF with cruise missiles or SRBM&#39;s then it will be an invitation for the IAF/IA to retaliate with the same manner.

Also see the above maps in previous post. All the forward IAF bases has mostly MiG-21/23/27.

Only Ambala have some MiG-29 and Bhuj has some Jaguars.

All the other Flankers/Fulcrums and Vajra&#39;s are in the Southern or Central part of India and to take them out you need to use ICBM&#39;s which is an invitation for more danger against Pakistan.

Thanks,

Miro

 

[Best of the Best]

Well i dont believe in making up wish list&#39;s but i do believe that PAF as we have seen clearly is now going to buy 250 JF-17&#39;s and some amount of F-16&#39;s but i believe PAF will buy another 4.5 generation after IAF MRCA contract what i believe PAF should do is rasie the number&#39;s it which its is plaining to buy when IAF is done with all it&#39;s purchase&#39;s i would like PAF to get it&#39;s hands on as many advance Air 2 air weapons as it can or when options are avaliable........

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Best of the Best@Nov 29 2005, 04:23 PM
Well i dont believe in making up wish list&#39;s but i do believe that PAF as we have seen clearly is now going to buy 250 JF-17&#39;s and some amount of F-16&#39;s but i believe PAF will buy another 4.5 generation after IAF MRCA contract what i believe PAF should do is rasie the number&#39;s it which its is plaining to buy when IAF is done with all it&#39;s purchase&#39;s i would like PAF to get it&#39;s hands on as many advance Air 2 air weapons as it can or when options are avaliable........

[post=4017]Quoted post[/post]​

apart from MRCA&#39;s of IAF the PAF should not forget that IAF is scrapping around 9 Squadrons with old junk and have repeat orders of Jaguar&#39;s and some MiG&#39;s.

Also ACM Tyagi has stated that IAF is also gonna procure some 120 LCA.

Thanks,

Miro

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by Thunder+Nov 29 2005, 01:06 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thunder &#064; Nov 29 2005, 01:06 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Yaar this is a paper war. And in paper wars, it&#39;s always the guy with the strong stuff who wins. In reality do you really think PAF will send it&#39;s pilots to fight against IAF MKI&#39;s. Hell no. They would probabley first destory as many indian air feilds as possibile by cruise or ballistiac missiles. After that is the time when PAF will be told to go nuts. But then there is always a chance that the indians might do the same with our airfeilds

[post=3982]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b]

Rafale my boy would have MKI as a light snack.

<!--QuoteBegin-ISI2003@Nov 29 2005, 03:01 AM
we might not want to engage a MKI or a bunch of them, we would would go after their bases

but what if 15 MKI&#39;s enter Pakistani airspace and try to bomb sargodha

if they have advanced jamming, they could avoid SAMs

what would PAF do against an attack like that, 5 rafales and 10 f-16 could do decent against these planes

and on a CAP mission, a rafale coud monitor the borders passively and could act as a Mini awacs even without using its radar as it would detect RF signals, along with a decent radar
--------------

40 rafales as the top tier, 110 f-16 as the middle tier and 250 jf-17 as the lower tier would all work great, especially with the awacs would be perfect

-------------
consider the opposition; 190 MKIs, 210 MRCAs, 126 LCAs, 100 Mig-29s, 100 Mirage 2000s (so far)

the MRCA is probably an AESA Equipped fighter with advanced ECM
-----------
no other plane can handle this as well as the rafale

40 Rafales are equal to about 75 J-10, and the rafale can do the job
---------------
psycholocally indian pilots will fear the rafale, and in defense and offense we need that edge to maintain the balance

PAF fears the MKI and probably the MRCA as it is shaping up

[post=3989]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]

wouldnt it be better to have atleast 60-80 rafales?