Ilya Kramnik Russian military expert call Pakistan potential buyer of SU35

[waz]

Hearsay? really ...

Links please then, and something solid. The PAF has never operated Russian aircraft, they are expensive, a pain to maintain and so on. Then you have the Indian element.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

BookMark My post If you want to confirm this the day you buy Sukhoi-35 i Will Leave PDF Happily.
Matter of the fact i confirm you better on indo-russian relations here than any other Indian Member of the PDF

I mark your post and will point you out when all that happen!

 

[Mughal-Prince]

There is an issue ... India is interested to reopen the tender hence it is about time PAF makes a right choice and chooses some thing that it wants...

At the moment all gets are open...EFT,Rafale, Su-35, Mig-35, Saab, etc...

I hope after a successful chutia drama of MMRCA India may not be able to keep the weapon manufacturers restricted to sale their systems to Pakistan only for their new Topi Drama.

After seeing what happen to France in JFT sub-systems deal and its emerging market as they have lost all of it or they would already have those 2+ Billion$ in their pocket after all of these sub-systems had been delivered I believe this restringing sh!t would be declined and they may be told that please talk about your deal and leave the others alone. I thought we would be having 100 aircrafts instead of 50 because their sub-systems are way better and matured then Chinese systems and it may not take this much time for weapons integration as their systems already compatible with the missiles and other stuff which is readily available in western market.
Tough luck but again all of that become a blessing in disguise for both China and Pakistan and when France again offered their systems later, PAC and CAC have already managed most of the Sub-Systems to bring at Par or exceeded their limits then what is offered to us earlier and even later. Although that is correct not all the systems are as good as westerns systems but a lot of them has exceeded their counterparts and become quiet respectable "unexpectedly" . In addition block 2 is even better in many ways.

And even now the lolipop of 36 Rafale purchase which they have shown to France is actually not in their hand but just being wiggled in front of them .

I would say Banias have art to play with the power of purchase as we see how French were playing in their lap for Mirage upgrade deal and Rafael. Off course where do they shove their 60 Mirage 2K if they wont upgrade it with France ??

 

[Super Falcon]

Goo

I hope after a successful chutia drama of MMRCA India may not be able to keep the weapon manufacturers restricted to sale their systems to Pakistan only for their new Topi Drama.

After seeing what happen to France in JFT sub-systems deal and its emerging market as they have lost all of it or they would already have those 2+ Billion$ in their pocket after all of these sub-systems had been delivered I believe this restringing sh!t would be declined and they may be told that please talk about your deal and leave the others alone. I thought we would be having 100 aircrafts instead of 50 because their sub-systems are way better and matured then Chinese systems and it may not take this much time for weapons integration as their systems already compatible with the missiles and other stuff which is readily available in western market.
Tough luck but again all of that become a blessing in disguise for both China and Pakistan and when France again offered their systems later, PAC and CAC have already managed most of the Sub-Systems to bring at Par or exceeded their limits then what is offered to us earlier and even later. Although that is correct not all the systems are as good as westerns systems but a lot of them has exceeded their counterparts and become quiet respectable "unexpectedly" . In addition block 2 is even better in many ways.

And even now the lolipop of 36 Rafale purchase which they have shown to France is actually not in their hand but just being wiggled in front of them .

I would say Banias have art to play with the power of purchase as we see how French were playing in their lap for Mirage upgrade deal and Rafael. Off course where do they shove their 60 Mirage 2K if they wont upgrade it with France ??

d friend awsome words right where it hurts hahaha

 

[Last Samuri]

close the thread this will end with NO PURCHASE just like

J10B x 40 planes
J31 x 50 planes
More F16/52 x 18 planes
UAE Mirage 2000/5 x 50 planes

stop punishing yourselves

 

[Abingdonboy]

So, let me get this right, Sukhoi will sell (Russia is in no economic position to offer Pakistan a soft loan) the PAF a few Su-35 and the $30 billion USD FGFA program will just, what, evaporate?

That this thread has got to 19 pages is mind blowing, some people need to engage their brains before typing.

 

[Chanakyaa]

If you are paying $ 100 million for your MKI (With serious maintenance and other platform management issues), you are wasting money. Go buy Rafale.
Second, I don't know your background, but your post above is filled with silliness that doesn't come from a person knowing this business. I suggest you ask someone on here to correct you as there was way too many things stated incorrectly. A senior Indian member might help you understand those. I don't have patience for stupidity. Fan boy is one thing, learning is another and calling others with actual knowledge "stupid" just because they didn't speak in favor of India and spoke the reality, is an entirely different thing. So how about you have one of your Indian brothers help you understand how fukking stupid the post sounds, and let me know.
I used the word stupid in response to yours. Had you remained civil, this wasn't needed

Post Reported.

Well, you just showed your background effectively. Keep it Up. Instead of calling me "stupid" better state facts ( if you know them ).

Real men talk on facts and "STATE FACTS" rather acting as a Moron by questioning other's background or calling Names ( "stupid" )

If you are paying $ 100 million for your MKI (With serious maintenance and other platform management issues), you are wasting money. Go buy Rafale.

You are unaware that best Fighter's in USAF ( F 22 ) , PLAAF ( J10 / J11 ) and RAF ( Mig 31 ) have the same "Maintenance Issues" ( are they ? ).

Since your post said "If" Your are paying. , it means you are really a stupid guy, not knowing the meaning and Difference of Flyway Cost and Package Cost ( Spares, Training , Weapons etc. ) of a Fighter.

, you are wasting money. Go buy Rafale.
Second, I don't know your background, but your post above is filled with silliness that doesn't come from a person knowing this business.

You are additionally , and effectively displaying ur top class "stupidity" by suggesting REPLACING , MKI ( Heavy , Air Superority Figher ) with Rafale ( Medium Multi Role ).

Instead of Hiding, Come State the facts. Talk on facts.

Agreed that it costs $ 100 Mil each but do you know that SU-30 MKI is only produced and operated by INDIA alone. Hence it could have a higher price tag because it is not produced in a very large quantity.

I agree with the first part, however with number close to 300, the quantity is definitely huge.

If you meant, that Su-35 will cost less, when bought off shelf, yes it will. But the price will be no less than $100 Mil .

Here is the clear sign. Official Figure for Su35 is $85 Million per piece, but if you add the price of Spares, Training , weapons you will go well beyond my stated figure. Incase you opt for French Avionics, add a few million more.

 

[MMG]

Pardon my ignorance but aren't PAF Pilots traditionally trained on the lines of U.S Planes?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I agree with the first part, however with number close to 300, the quantity is definitely huge.

If you meant, that Su-35 will cost less, when bought off shelf, yes it will. But the price will be no less than $100 Mil .

Here is the clear sign. Official Figure for Su35 is $85 Million per piece, but if you add the price of Spares, Training , weapons you will go well beyond my stated figure. Incase you opt for French Avionics, add a few million more.

Do not think that Pakistan would be going with French Avionics but with various European Suppliers or even US ones as long as they are comparable. This might be due to avoidance of sanctions, They might also intigrade locally produces systems as well. This might give PAF a much lower price tag then a complete package which might cost higher as it is branded.

Even all this would be close to 95-100 mil including training other wise some thing else might be bought. The systems that are Possibly looked at could also be manufactured in countries that have cheaper work force or could be provided in some sort of through away price...

The only thing that PAF is currently looking at is the AESA radar now which and from where they are going to get remains as good a guess as your or mine.

The thing that I am confused with is if the SU-35 does become part of Pakistan Defense Forces who would actually be using it. PAF does not require these aircraft unless it is going to face ISIS, though the Navy does require a long range aircraft to petrol over the EEA and territorial waters. The aircraft being a new design and new engine would only give 15-20 % more against the Su-35 MKI's that IAF operates. This is no where close to what EFT can give or for that matter F-15 SA.

The only reason I foresee for such an aircraft is that Pakistan is Aiming to have complete transfer of technology along with design improvement rights to provide a complete Hi-lo mix to those countries that can not afford to purchase western aircraft due to financial constraints and sanctions.

This brings up the question what is Russia gaining?

Historically Russia has been labeled to have poor after sales services. Maintenance facilities that used to be available have also dwindled over the last few decades.

May be you are able to some what predict the actual deal costs keeping in view all these more than what I might assume.

Pardon my ignorance but aren't PAF Pilots traditionally trained on the lines of U.S Planes?

Yes PAF has been operating Western aircraft i.e US and French. There tactics are also based on western concepts.
Though many of the other Muslim countries have been using Russian origin aircraft on which PAF pilot have flown and trained even earned aerial victories during the Arab - Israel wars.

Pakistan has also operated Russian aircraft that were licence made or copies made by China. So it is clear that PAF has been operating both Western and Eastern aircraft for the last 40+ years.