If the Generals knew the India role in regime change, could it be stopped, evoking some India centric Ghairat.

[VkdIndian]

Stereotyping the people and the country is churlish.

I agree with you. We weren’t discussing the entire nation. No one is judging the entire nation here.

We are discussing the decisions by a government. Those decision are counted against the entire setup and not on few individuals.

Failure as well as success is credited to everyone in the decision making chain.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

We are discussing the decisions by a government. Those decision are counted against the entire setup and not on few individuals.

This is the problem in Pakistan, the civilian military equation, there shouldn't be two different entities, military and civilian government should be complementing each other instead of fighting it out who are the boss, and who calls the shot.

There shouldn't be any confrontation between the two, under the constitution of Pakistan the roles of both are clearly defined and stipulated.

What Quaid Azam said about army?

To this end, said on August 14, 1947, “Do not forget that the armed forces are the servants of the people and you do not make national policy; it is we, the civilians, who decide these issues and it is your duty to carry out these tasks with which you are entrusted.”

Very similar role mentioned in the constitution of Pakistan.

 

[Burger_King]

This is a point very few people understand in Pak including, sadly it seems, majority of the army rank and file.

Modi is a buzdill of the highest order who can only display his mardaangi by taking on defenseless Indian muslims. There is zero chance that Modi would have the courage to launch surgical strike in Pakistan. Yet he needed some event to display his mardangi to his low self esteemed supporters. And what better way to do this than to take revenge for thousand year humiliation?

So he came up with surgical strike but he got goras involved to ensure no blowback. Some low level flunky called Mir Bajwa who agreed to do the needful. But IK, by retaliating, upset their plans. I believe NATO plus Indians never wanted IK to control Pak in the first place and response to surgical strike further confirmed their beliefs. So operation regime change got momentum. I believe lack of response to the errant Indian missile was a signal to show Pak army was back in control.

As a rational player, India wants a weak Pak. And goras and Arab sheikhs dont want azad muslim riyasath either. Hence meeting of interests. Alarm bells started to ring when IK got a handle on the economy. Russian attack on Ukraine further cemented Pak plight.

IK's crime is naivety. Global politics abhors morality. And Pak has been a target since the day it came into being. Previously, army hukaam could be counted upon to counter enemy threats. This is why enemies wanted to turn Pak army into Punjab police - task they gave to their gora agents. Nawaz almost succeeded in the 90s when he removed one army chief and wanted to hand another to the Indians. But then coup happened which resulted in Pak's isolation. 9/11 changed the scenario as Americans had no choice but to work with Musharraf. Few years later they got rid of Musharraf and now have situation which enemies always wanted which was to turn army into Punjab police.

But with the army acting on behalf of enemies, the state cannot survive. High command will take flight eventually. It is up to army rank and file to seize the moment. Not easy but what the enemies have in store is far worse.

 

[kmc_chacko]

Why Indian Establishment hates Imran Khan? | Why Khan is still the real enemy?​

There are many reasons, this was one.

27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

A lot of useless hue and cry in India Media about the MiG-29UPG being deployed after disbanding the remorseful 52 Sqn flying the MiG-21s. Defended by Barak-8 SAM & having 30 Hardened Pens, Srinagar AFS stands no chance against PAF Standoff Attack in case of any misadventure. I think you forgot...

pdf.defence.pk

Did IK shoot down the jet or PAF ? and whose orders does PAF follows Generals order or IKs ?

What is your point here exactly, according to Geneva rule about POW's pilots have to be released within a stipulated period of time.

And that was also a goodwill CBM measure, like slap hard but later be lenient and show goodwill and compassion.

Ho Halqa-e-Yaran To Baresham Ki Tarah Naram
Razm-e-Haq-o-Batil Ho To Foulad Hai Momin

by going through his body language its very much clear that IK was clueless at that situation, isn't it strange that he announced releasing of PoW without even having any sort of negotiation/condition with India.

 

[Cash GK]

Yes he was. Everyone knows this.
Later, he was cleared of all the charges by the courts and the same US uplifted the ban and welcomed him with open arms.
Now, don’t tell me that the uplifting of ban was motivated but banning him wasn’t or vice versa.

Modi was PM before IK came into limelight and is still the PM, while, IK is taking a dump in front of cameras in a jail. Who is successful? And who has bigger standing on the world stage?

IK has a fan following within your nation. For the outside world he is a small fry.

There is no comparison here.

Why you crying man killed 25 thousands people under his nose.. you are cheap defending him

Did IK shoot down the jet or PAF ? and whose orders does PAF follows Generals order or IKs ?



by going through his body language its very much clear that IK was clueless at that situation, isn't it strange that he announced releasing of PoW without even having any sort of negotiation/condition with India.

Lol indian creaps two jets one helicopter. Still in Denial

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

When will Imran Khan fangirls stop crying? Imran Khan was brought in to power by establishment and removed by same. He was not elected but selected. Pakistani people didn't vote him to power. They voted Nawaz Sharif.

Now through lying, blaming USA etc he got genuine support after playing victim card. But thats normal, public love melo drama in politics.

He was removed because he forgot who brought him to power. He literally only wanted good relations with his supposed kin terrorist taliban ruled Afghanistan. Thats why he got nill support from USA to Saudis and even China. Only Indians and taliban wish to see him back in power.

He wanted to put every opposition in jail, now he is enjoying in jail himself with no chance of getting out anytime soon.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

If, only if the military establishment was working for the government, working for the people and country as per rules assigned under constitution of Pakistan, the US wouldn't be able to contact military directly, and force and coerce the chief by threat, carrot and stick.

Only if they were working as supportive organ for the government and people.

The direct liaison of military with US is the problem, overriding the civilian control.

If the military was under the government, they could simply be insulated from direct threat and coercion.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

If, only if the military establishment was working for the government, working for the people and country as per rules assigned under constitution of Pakistan, the US wouldn't be able to contact military directly, and force and coerce the chief by threat, carrot and stick.

Only if they were working as supportive organ for the government and people.

The direct liaison of military with US is the problem, overriding the civilian control.

If the military was under the government, they could simply be insulated from direct threat and coercion.

Military is corrupt and so is Imran Khan who used their help to become PM. No point crying now. Whole system is rotten and Imran Khan actively played part in this by doing dharnas to remove democratically elected Nawaz Sharif.

Imran Khan is the villain here. Opposition had to make amends with establishment or suffer in jails.

 

[uhuru]

Generals know it and have accepted India as their local direct in line supervisor, whom they report to and take orders from now. Several incidents since Feb 2019 clearly points to this new dynamic: failure to intercept initial IAF foray into Pakistani territory and then failure to give a proper response (swift retort's failure was masked by IAF's trademark incompetence), LoC ceasefire capitulation, no response to abrogation of 370, no response to Brahmos attack, no response to continued Indian support/sponsorship of BLA/TTP.

US is upper management and only third tiered state department bhangis get involved with Pakistani establishment, US ambassador is pretty much the viceroy these days.

Pak army GHQ - Bajwa and all others are doing business overseas and were already in bed with the indians.

Military is corrupt and so is Imran Khan who used their help to become PM. No point crying now. Whole system is rotten and Imran Khan actively played part in this by doing dharnas to remove democratically elected Nawaz Sharif.

Imran Khan is the villain here. Opposition had to make amends with establishment or suffer in jails.

Only way is the Erdogan Utrugul way.... Line these haramkhors and hang them in public.

MBS is right... he needs to send his squad... disappear these haramkhors.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

MBS is right... he needs to send his squad... disappear these haramkhors.

When MBS said this and where, on what occasion.

 

[El Sidd]

The national security council should investigate the government's role in the 2019 episode. The India loving Niazi must be trialled and investigated under military law.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

The national security council should investigate the government's role in the 2019 episode. The India loving Niazi must be trialled and investigated under military law.

The common denominator between @El Sidd, the closet patwari and the indians.

The love for Nawaz sharif and Sharif family, knowing fully the corruption and devastation they caused to the country.

Here it can be attributed to khota biryani, but Indians don't eat meat and for that matter khota biryani, except for the states out of cow belt.

 

[Menace2Society]

The Sharifs asked Modi to do the balakot strikes and remain hostile to weaken IK's government. This is not beyond them. India will go out of their way to legitimize the Sharifs and Zardaris because they know these corrupt families handicap Pakistan. I wish Pakistan had true patriots in the establishment, its sad something so obvious is being allowed.

The difference between being a corrupt 3rd world country and a 1st world developed country is 20 years without Sharifs and Zardaris in politics. Why Pakistanis can't make this step I will never understand. This sh*tshow has been going on since the 70s.

 

[El Sidd]

The common denominator between @El Sidd, the closet patwari and the indians.

The love for Nawaz sharif and Sharif family, knowing fully the corruption and devastation they caused to the country.

Here it can be attributed to khota biryani, but Indians don't eat meat and for that matter khota biryani, except for the states out of cow belt.

Neither me nor Mr. Sharif gave an hour long love speech about India and Indians at the UN. Niazi did.

The Sharifs asked Modi to do the balakot strikes to weaken IK's government. This is not beyond them. India will go out of their way to legitimize the Sharifs and Zardaris because they know these corrupt families handicap Pakistan. I wish Pakistan had true patriots in the establishment, its sad something so obvious is being allowed.

The difference between being a corrupt 3rd world country and a 1st world developed country is 20 years without Sharifs and Zardaris in politics. Why Pakistanis can't make this step I will never understand. This sh*tshow has been going on since the 70s.

In the aftermath of unilateral actions taken by India in Kashmir, Mr. Niazi went public and announced that 'Jihad' in Kashmir would be counterproductive.

Mr. Niazis government also never took up the Brahmos attack on Mian Chunnu.

Interestingly Mr. Niazi sought to harm Pakistan's standing in the Muslim world by advocating for a parallel bloc of countries to the OIC. Pakistan is the founding member of the OIC.

Mr. Sharif was let go to London for political gains and Xerderi was coalition partner in government with PTI.

 

[Menace2Society]

In the aftermath of unilateral actions taken by India in Kashmir, Mr. Niazi went public and announced that 'Jihad' in Kashmir would be counterproductive.

Isn't it though? Wouldn't that have played in the hands of India as Pakistan gets sanctioned for terrorism?

Mr. Niazis government also never took up the Brahmos attack on Mian Chunnu.

His government was pretty much finished by then, that was done for the benefit of PDM to weaken what remaining rule he had.

PDM and India is a nexus either intentionally or indirectly.

Lets see what the generals do, I hope they do what needs to be done.