If PAF had accepted the offer of A7 in the 80s

[redgriffin]

That an A8 and not A7. They were related but not the same.

You probably meant F-8 Crusader which was an out and out carrier based light fighter. The A-7 was derived from the F-8 as a carrier based strike and CAS machine which later on also served in land based airforces.

 

[ali_raza]

Agha sahb? Do you mean Agha Shahi?

My hunch is just about the same. PAF might have been better off with Mirage 2000. But this is only as far as sanctions & maintenance of aircraft inventory goes. French generally don't give a hoot about the US foreign policy - though they did buckle and cancelled the reprocessing plant deal with Pakistan back in the 70s. But as long as you have the cash they'll keep you entertained.

agha hasan abdi
the banker

Agha sahb? Do you mean Agha Shahi?

My hunch is just about the same. PAF might have been better off with Mirage 2000. But this is only as far as sanctions & maintenance of aircraft inventory goes. French generally don't give a hoot about the US foreign policy - though they did buckle and cancelled the reprocessing plant deal with Pakistan back in the 70s. But as long as you have the cash they'll keep you entertained.

nuclear is always radioactive material and very sensitive
it was obvious that pakistan was doing this for nuclear weapons
that wasn’t the time for the plant but thank fully we got the whole blueprints for the plants which we later used to creat our own khushab plant with some external help
but non the less a huge blunder which we did was not acquiring canndu reactors in 50s when they were offered dirt cheap and were pushing pakistan to take it and we just half heartedly got a small heavy water plant.

 

[araz]

Na it was based on USN last gun interceptor F-8
View attachment 650507
A-7
View attachment 650508

Looks Fugly!! Glad we did not get it. However, in spite of limited utility I would have liked a few squadrons of A10s in paf FOR a2g ROLES

 

[YeBeWarned]

Looks Fugly!! Glad we did not get it. However, in spite of limited utility I would have liked a few squadrons of A10s in paf FOR a2g ROLES

haha I was about to say the exact thing, the plane is hideous looking .. A-10's

 

[HAIDER]

Looks Fugly!! Glad we did not get it. However, in spite of limited utility I would have liked a few squadrons of A10s in paf FOR a2g ROLES

I am surprise how our armed forces refused A10. The most deadly weapon in AG role. It roast the terrorist in FATA mountains... US army has no plan to retire next 20 years..

 

[Gripen9]

Correct but there are few discrepancies. Let me summarise them in pointers instead of telling a long story

1. Ford/Kissinger had 'carrots & sticks' strategy of 110 A-7 for $500 million in exchange for Pak giving up the French reprocessing plant.

2. Carter only had sticks strategy. Virtually no aircraft to offer (except for relics), & threat to invoke Glenn Amendment if Pak did not give up on the French reprocessing plant. In the end, he did invoke Glenn-Symington Amendments.

3. A-4s were never officially offered but recommended to Carter by his team as carrots for Pakistan to give up on the reprocessing plant.

4. F-5E was on offer during Ford period (if I am not mistaken) & thereafter only when Soviet invasion of Agh began. Pakistan rejected it.

5. Carter offered $400 million when the Soviet invasion of Agh began. Pak rejected it.

6. F-16 was first offered by Carter but Zia decided to wait it out until Reagan came to power.

7. With F-16 the A-7 purchase made no sense (until we got slapped with the sanctions).

PAF wanted 110 A-7 and the Peacegate Agreements I, II, III & IV also added up to a total of 110 F-16. The difference is that PAF might have been able to get all 110 A-7 in one go. With F-16s we had to wait & clearly that nibbed us in the end. But overall I think we got the better aircraft.

F-16s offered to Pakistan under Carter were the watered down versions with J-79 turbojet. PAF rejected those outright.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

i wish Pakistan insisted on the sale of F 15 at the time.
Americans needed Pakistan desperately to break up USSR.
Our people are never good negotiators. They gave up too early. F 15 is the real fighting machine.

You're right. Our negotiators missed a trick. Had we all simply converted to another abrahamic faith we would have gotten f15 no sweat.

 

[Gripen9]

agha hasan abdi
the banker


nuclear is always radioactive material and very sensitive
it was obvious that pakistan was doing this for nuclear weapons
that wasn’t the time for the plant but thank fully we got the whole blueprints for the plants which we later used to creat our own khushab plant with some external help
but non the less a huge blunder which we did was not acquiring canndu reactors in 50s when they were offered dirt cheap and were pushing pakistan to take it and we just half heartedly got a small heavy water plant.

Yup Agha Hasan Abdi - Head of BCCI.
Most of Pakistani Military deals and clandestine projects were funded through it.

That was one of the main reasons the bank was taken down.

 

[SABRE]

F-16s offered to Pakistan under Carter were the watered down versions with J-79 turbojet. PAF rejected those outright.

Yes. It was called the F-16/79. Carter offered it on 3rd October 1980, and the last reports that I have seen on the aircraft (along with F-20) being flight tested by PAF are from April 1981. Reagan approved F-16A/B deal in December 1981.

 

[ali_raza]

Yup Agha Hasan Abdi - Head of BCCI.
Most of Pakistani Military deals and clandestine projects were funded through it.

That was one of the main reasons the bank was taken down.

one of many thorns in west eyes
nuclear and agha sahb were considered same lethality
coupled with isi

 

[araz]

one of many thorns in west eyes
nuclear and agha sahb were considered same lethality
coupled with isi

I think more than anyone else Agha Hasaan Abidi's illness became more of a liability for him and us. His Cardiac transplant and subsequent strokes did not help. Rather than anyrhing else BCCI was done in by their own sheer stupidity and overconfidence. They were specifically told not to enter US bankong market. They went ahead and bought a Bank on Capital Hill which had all the accounts of the Congressmen under false pretences and if I remember through a third party. This raised alarms in the US. Their situation was still salvageable but Sheikh Zaid's advisors got scared of US pressure and advised him to stop supporting the Bank. Otherwise 625 million was considered peanuts and Sh Zaid could have covered it himself.
I had a long conversation with someone who was fairly high in the heirarchy of the Bank and hence got this information. At the end of the day this is his account which I think is correct.
A

 

[Bossman]

BCCI went down primarily because of its involvement in the Iran Contra Affair, which was much bigger than public ever found out. They never financed any weapon purchases for Pakistan

 

[Raider 21]

I am surprise how our armed forces refused A10. The most deadly weapon in AG role. It roast the terrorist in FATA mountains... US army has no plan to retire next 20 years..

Not a multirole platform

Looks Fugly!! Glad we did not get it. However, in spite of limited utility I would have liked a few squadrons of A10s in paf FOR a2g ROLES

Strongly agreed. It was called the SLUF for a reason.

 

[THE DESERT FOX]

It was called the SULF(Short ugly little F**ker) by the pilots. though it was a good attack aircraft for its time it would be easy pickings for the enemy nowadays also PAF aint got funds to operate a dedicated ground attack aircraft. ALSO THE MAJOR MISTAKE HERE IS THAT THE A7 WAS OFFERED ON THE CONDITION THAT PAKISTAN ROLLED BACK ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM SO THAT PAKISTAN COULD COVER UP ITS CONVENTIONAL UNBALANCE BUT WE IT REJECTED NOT FOR THE F 16S BUT BECAUSE OF OUR NUCLEAR PROGRAM WHILE F16S WERE GIVEN TO PAKISTAN DUE THE RUSSIAN INTRUSIONS

 

[JPMM]

Problem was engine