If an F16 Can Take Out an F35 WVR---Then a JF 17 Can as Well

[Peaceful Civilian]

Y, With the help of Awacs

 

[SP!TF!R3]

Take your pick.

Pentagon say F35 fighter jet lost against F16 because it had no stealth paint | Daily Mail Online

US latest F-35 stealth jet is beaten in dogfight by F-16 from 1970s | Daily Mail Online

In any case, PAF F-16s have repeatedly shot down EF Typhoons during mock combat, the Typhoons on the other hand have made mince meat of the SU-30 MKI. .... F-35 should be least of your worries.

that F-35 was "AF-2",you may say it is a empty airframe,which just can fly and make some maneuver..

and Typhoons are best 4++ gen aircraft..whenever I see similar stuff like F-16 shot down EF,I laugh..In actual combat,it'll be like 10:1 kill ratio between EF and F-16 C/D..

now comes SU-30 MKI VS EF..SU-30 is inferior in comparison of EF when in terms of technology.and why not??EF is best WVR/BVR Fighter,next to F-22.but nobody believes that "Salesman" said about EF in Indradhanush to push EF.Even he said that it is always about man,but tech does give a leap in capabilities.

on a funny part,do you know that T-38 downed a F-22 once.I wonder whether F-22 is any good at all(by your logic).

 

[Jungibaaz]

Which army will be entering Israeli air space?
the F 35 is not an interceptor. It will not be fielded against planes directly above it and it is not meant to be used in that context.

Read on the direction the drone plus the F 35 is taking and you will understand how it is meant to be fielded. . I agree that the decreased radar signature is not going to make it invisible but will give it significant advantages.

Yes, I agree that our borders are very close together and 5th generation jets will be useless if they are flying into the other country directly or flying in from a forward base, but rather the purpose of 5th generation fighters in this context is to fly at a distance using their BVR's to take out enemy planes without getting in their range. As the radar signature decreases the distance needed for enemy fighters to lock on to the jet increases also.
With BVR's missiles moving above 100 KM range and radar detection being difficult 5th generation planes will be far away from the actual fighting but still giving air cover.

The F 35 have not been designed to partake in close combat, and there is no situation where America will have to field it in that purpose. Yes, it may not suit the nations which buy it but will make American Air force much more capable and for the American purposes is a very potent jet.

Again, what you're saying is fine, but the premise of it is not true at all, especially the part highlighted in bold. This simply false. The argument that it is not a natural dogfighter is somewhat valid, that is not its preferred arena. Part of the argument is that test pilots confirm this in their trials of it's flight characteristics, and that it is bulky. This is somewhat true. However, they ignore the fact that the WVR engagement ability as a whole was not being judged, its extensive RAM coating was not applied, the software and technology that it would make use in a dogfight was not used, its IRST, JHMCS, and other sensors were not tested. And as for the argument of it being bulky, it is, however the internal weapons bays, reduces its signature and its drag coefficient, thus improving its flight characteristics in full configuration vs its opponent.

What you've suggested here from the start makes some sense, and has some arguments in its favour, but it is false, simply put, such sweeping statements are usually not applicable.

 

[C130]

Corrected for you

correct, alright. Mig-29 had BVR F-16 didn't.

 

[amir_31]

Awesome thunder..

 

[MastanKhan]

Dammmmnnnnn----I just can't believe that this troll thread is 5 pages long----. It was started for the sake of fun.

Keep dreaming though. JF 17 will be shot down before it could even come near a F-35. This won't be your first and your last delusion on PDF.

Dude---this is just a troll thread

so at last owr very own mastan saheb has been struck by "trolling bug"

View attachment 242455

Yeah---I cannot believe that it has gone 5 pages----over 2000 views and close to 70 posts

 

[Haroon Qureshi]

Dammmmnnnnn----I just can't believe that this troll thread is 5 pages long----. It was started for the sake of fun.



Dude---this is just a troll thread




Yeah---I cannot believe that it has gone 5 pages----over 2000 views and close to 70 posts

Sir, would be able to save our sky with JF17 ? I am a big fan of your. We don't have a huge budget but we are a defensive force. Can we take America and India if it come to war ? It won't be difficult for us to produce JF17 if we come to war. Thanks in advance.

 

[Gufi]

However, they ignore the fact that the WVR engagement ability as a whole was not being judged, its extensive RAM coating was not applied, the software and technology that it would make use in a dogfight was not used, its IRST, JHMCS, and other sensors were not tested. And as for the argument of it being bulky, it is, however the internal weapons bays, reduces its signature and its drag coefficient, thus improving its flight characteristics in full configuration vs its opponent.

What you've suggested here from the start makes some sense, and has some arguments in its favour, but it is false, simply put, such sweeping statements are usually not applicable.

Part of a book on future air to air combat envisioned by American think tanks...

 

[Neptune]

...says the F-35

 

[Mrc]

WVR even mig 21 can kill f 35...with thermal seekers and off bore shots
F 35 is being marketed as a fighter of BVR combat

 

[danger007]

Do you understand what exercises are?

Common man.. don't expect better from him... He can claim anything and he knows everything... he got several credible sources(for him)..

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir, would be able to save our sky with JF17 ? I am a big fan of your. We don't have a huge budget but we are a defensive force. Can we take America and India if it come to war ? It won't be difficult for us to produce JF17 if we come to war. Thanks in advance.

Sir,

Why do you think that you have to fight the U S? We are the only sane and stable muslim state left in the region. The oncoming of isis has given us a new life.

Truthfully----we won't be able to save our skies from India alone if it has the courage to absorb its losses---if it can absorb a loss of a 100 aircraft in the first few days.

As I have stated many a times that Paf has deceived the nation for its preparedness to take on IAF. Amongst many a things----to fight an enemy is a mental thing as well.

WHEN DOUBTS & CONCERNS CREEP UP---MISTAKES HAPPEN. And you may ask how to create doubts and concerns----. In our case---you need to have a potent weapon---something that may create concern in the enemy. So---when there is concern---there are doubts---when there are doubts---mistakes happen---courage comes into question.

At this time---PAF does not have any air craft in its arsenal that can make that claim going into the battle from day one.

But--if its aircraft make a decisive strike at the enemy in the first 48 hours and come out ahead----then you can say---okay---now the enemy has concerns----but that is after the fact----. It is like a maybe----it is like betting on a cricket game---. You just cannot build a nations strength on maybe alone or on bets---you should never take the enemy of being stupid and weak and you should never doubt their courage.

Now there is a way to use the strength of the JF 17---you have to compliment it with the presence of a heavy aircraft to give it cover and position it for air defense.

That could be a euro fighter, SU 35, a J 11, F 16 BLK 60 or an F 18 super hornet.

And to those---who want to say cost is a factor---please---this discussion is not for you. Paf has been hijacked by a fighter mafia which believes in smaller aircraft.

It has been 14 years since 9 / 11. Paf had every opportunity to strengthen its assets---it has tragically failed to meet that target---it is full of excuses, excuses and more excuses.

 

[Haroon Qureshi]

Sir,

Why do you think that you have to fight the U S? We are the only sane and stable muslim state left in the region. The oncoming of isis has given us a new life.

Truthfully----we won't be able to save our skies from India alone if it has the courage to absorb its losses---if it can absorb a loss of a 100 aircraft in the first few days.

As I have stated many a times that Paf has deceived the nation for its preparedness to take on IAF. Amongst many a things----to fight an enemy is a mental thing as well.

WHEN DOUBTS & CONCERNS CREEP UP---MISTAKES HAPPEN. And you may ask how to create doubts and concerns----. In our case---you need to have a potent weapon---something that may create concern in the enemy. So---when there is concern---there are doubts---when there are doubts---mistakes happen---courage comes into question.

At this time---PAF does not have any air craft in its arsenal that can make that claim going into the battle from day one.

But--if its aircraft make a decisive strike at the enemy in the first 48 hours and come out ahead----then you can say---okay---now the enemy has concerns----but that is after the fact----. It is like a maybe----it is like betting on a cricket game---. You just cannot build a nations strength on maybe alone or on bets---you should never take the enemy of being stupid and weak and you should never doubt their courage.

Now there is a way to use the strength of the JF 17---you have to compliment it with the presence of a heavy aircraft to give it cover and position it for air defense.

That could be a euro fighter, SU 35, a J 11, F 16 BLK 60 or an F 18 super hornet.

And to those---who want to say cost is a factor---please---this discussion is not for you. Paf has been hijacked by a fighter mafia which believes in smaller aircraft.

It has been 14 years since 9 / 11. Paf had every opportunity to strengthen its assets---it has tragically failed to meet that target---it is full of excuses, excuses and more excuses.

Sir thanks for a detailed reply. It means it is all hoax and we are not at all prepared to take on our arch enemy. Yes i agree with you that we have not done anything in last 10 to 15 years but your first post made me optimistic. Thanks for clarifying it though.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir thanks for a detailed reply. It means it is all hoax and we are not at all prepared to take on our arch enemy. Yes i agree with you that we have not done anything in last 10 to 15 years but your first post made me optimistic. Thanks for clarifying it though.

Hi,

In the last 14 years--the Air force Air chief---the air marshall should have been charged for high treason----the first time was that he did not procure a potent air superiority fighter in the first 3 to 4 years after the sanctions came off---2. after the strike on the base in Karachi that destroyed the surveillance planes---that would be the naval chief as well 3. when the terrorists destroyed the aircraft at Kamra---that would include the base commander as well as the air chief.

If these guys had received the same treatment as Kim Jon Unh gave to his defense minister for drowsing---ie execution by an anti air craft gun----paf would have been running like a smooth running Toyota corolla.

There is one incidence before that----that was the shooting down of the navy aircraft after Kargil. Both naval chief---naval base commander----the PAF base commander should have been executed for fisrt letting that aircraft fly on its own---second for not providing it air cover.

PAF has not proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it is its brothers keeper yet.

 

[Haroon Qureshi]

Hi,

In the last 14 years--the Air force Air chief---the air marshall should have been charged for high treason----the first time was that did not procure a potent air suoeriority fighter in the forst 3 to 4 years after the sanctions came off---2. after the strike on the base in Karachi that destroyed the surveillance planes---that would be the naval chief as well 3. when the terrorists destroyed the aircraft at Kamra---.

If these guys had received the same treatment as Kim Jon Unh gave to his defense minister for drowsing---ie execution by an anti air craft gun----paf would have been running like a smooth running Toyota corolla.

There is one incidence before that----that was the shooting down of the navy aircraft after Kargil. Both naval chief---naval base commander----the PAF base commander should have been executed for firt letting that aircraft fly---second for not providing it air cover.

PAF has not proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it is its brothers keeper yet.

Sir I am as angry as you after reading your post. I knew that things are not on track but the way our media or armed force show us is all together different. We have not contributed anything on science and technology, health institution or education, still we are lacking on something which we were concentration since our birth. Hope we will see some change InshaAllah though it is really difficult to think about it.