If an F16 Can Take Out an F35 WVR---Then a JF 17 Can as Well

[N/A]

Dude you are getting into nitty gritty, my reply was to the member who blatantly claimed that F-16 was inferior to the MiG-29.

Sir I respect you, but I just believe that your comment gave the mig29 injustice and as a person I can't stand and witness injustice being played out

 

[Windjammer]

Sir I respect you but I just didn't believe that you comment gave the mig29 any justice

In capable hands, I'm sure it's a very potent platform but looking back in the history, unlike the F-86s, Mirage-3, F-16 and F-15, despite being capable machines, no Russian aircraft left a mark in the air combat scenario.

 

[N/A]

In capable hands, I'm sure it's a very potent platform but looking back in the history, unlike the F-86s, Mirage-3, F-16 and F-15, despite being capable machines, no Russian aircraft left a mark in the air combat scenario.

In capable hands, I'm sure it's a very potent platform but looking back in the history, unlike the F-86s, Mirage-3, F-16 and F-15, despite being capable machines, no Russian aircraft left a mark in the air combat scenario.

My friend I think you have forgotten about the hailstorm the mig15 created during the Korean War and the mess the mig17 created for F4 pilots during Vietnam. Russian/Soviet jets while being capable have always were piloted by amutuers.

 

[Beta-Fighter]

In capable hands, I'm sure it's a very potent platform but looking back in the history, unlike the F-86s, Mirage-3, F-16 and F-15, despite being capable machines, no Russian aircraft left a mark in the air combat scenario.

Their is no war where Russian involved directly against weak country like US with force Multiplier against weak on.

 

[S.Y.A]

There was a very interesting article on War is Boring on F-35 everyone should go there and read it.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

I read a very interesting comment on another forum---and I was surprised at its simplicity---that how did we miss it.

The JF 17 is very close to the F 16 in a dog fight or maybe ????? SO if an F 16 can take out an F 35 in a dog fight with ease---then so what is stopping a JF 17 for doing the same.

I don't think anything---If an F16 cann do it---so can the JF17.

does it mean that Tejas can take out F-22? I always admit my ignorance re aviation so I always shudder at the generosity of such claims by our internet experts.
you didnt link the source of that gem of a comment.

Hi,

We all know that---but I thought it will be a feel good post for some---specially teenagers on this board who would be jumping up and down with excitement.

indeed this is why the source of the gem was needed

 

[al_asad_al_mulk]

i study many modern air to air fights i find out that migs specially mig-29 pitted against f-16 & 18 badly.

 

[Immanuel]

When a T-38 can effectively kill the F-22 is a dogfight, it only proves to say that any fighter can effectively kill another in a dogfight. A close in gun fight will always pit the pilot's skill against another & the better trained and tactically clever pilot will kill he other. As for the F-35, it will be the most advanced fighter to have ever flown and it represents a neat compromise, it will be a jack of all trades without being particularly good at any one particular domain.

Cross posting from BR

brilliant member named brar_w, quite knowledgeable posts from him.

^^ http://fightersweep.com/2548/f-35-v-f-1 ... e-garbage/

http://fightersweep.com/2574/f-35-vs-f- ... -thoughts/

http://fightersweep.com/2698/f-35-worst-fighter-ever/

The F-15 routinely looses to the F-16 in an energy dogfight..So does the F-18..Yet they also do well in certain other DACT conditions, not to mentions the F-15 destroys it when overall air-combat envelope is exploited. The T-38 has gun kills on the F-22A, with a video on youtube as a reference. The F-35 did not face an F-16 in a dogfight, it used an F-16 as a reference to study and analyze the CLAWS on an DEVELOPMENT test Jet so that recommendations could be provided to the development-test team in terms of making changes to an Under-development CLAWS as they go through test-points towards a full software build operational evaluation towards the beginning of 2018..There are fighters that manage energy better than others..The F-18 and F-16 are stark contrasts..simply put if you fight against an F-16 using an F-18 but tactics that would favor the F-16, you would loose...Same thing if the F-16 fights a Hornet using Hornet's tactics...As even the typhoon drivers agree too, below 15,000 feet in a pure gun-fight the Viper is pretty much as good as you are going to get if you are fighting in "its envelope"...It was designed around energy maneuverability, as a light weight no nonsense gun-fighter..However all fighters that are different or inferior to it in certain envelopes such as the F-15, and F-18 C/D and E/F still get plenty of kills on it. This particular outing was to test the F-35, not for it to go out and fight no holds barred against an F-16...That will be done elsewhere by operational folks (not test pilots) at the weapons school !!

Read the 3 articles posted above, they are written by a pilot with many hours on the F-16 and F-18..and one does not particularly like the F-35 as a program, yet understands the difference between sending a development test jet out fitted with test kit (and without mission systems and avionics) to use an aircraft as a reference in a series of BFM to test, and develop recommendations to further tweak the CLAWS and sending an operational aircraft with all its bells and whistles against another in a similar state and letting them duel out to see who comes out on top. Apparently some in the blogosphere don't see a difference but can we really blame them? I mean, one of the persons who has an extremely successfully blog (at the moment) and loves to make GIF's of about everything is in the business of selling hot dogs and ice-cream floats..thats his level of expertise

Of course the internet changes a lot

As the veteran pilot puts it -
Quote:
But at the end of the day, this aircraft has done one thing no other aircraft has ever been able to do – turn an entire generation of aviation bloggers, journalists, and commenters into overnight military aviation experts.

 

[Tipu7]

Truthfully----we won't be able to save our skies from India alone if it has the courage to absorb its losses---if it can absorb a loss of a 100 aircraft in the first few days.

As I have stated many a times that Paf has deceived the nation for its preparedness to take on IAF. Amongst many a things----to fight an enemy is a mental thing as well.

Sir how will you compare PAF &IAF by 2020?
Considering their future plans?
Suppose IAF retire all its fleet of old Mig21 & Mig 27 and replace them with Tejas or Gripen? Also Rafales and more MKI will be on their way and not to mention the "super sukhoi" upgrade.....
Similarly Suppose PAF get rid of its F7 & Mirages and replace them with Blk2,3 Thunders? Considering J10 and Su35 may be inducted to arm two squadrons At least???

i study many modern air to air fights i find out that migs specially mig-29 pitted against f-16 & 18 badly.

Mig29 lost all dog fights against F15, F16 & Su27....... it has yet to attain a single "kill"...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

My friend such 1vs1 dogfight only existed during the world wars...A technically superior plane in the hands of an inferior pilot does not equalize the fight. An equally capable plane in the hands of an inferior pilot is at a severe disadvantage.

sorry wrong premise bordering blasphemy.

a pilot who would get to fly a technologically superior plane will have years of service and hundreds if not thousands of flight hours under his belt. he will be chosen among the best pilot candidates and only then he will make the grade to fly a multi million dollar plane so using "inferior" and pilot together with a modern jet is a little ill-informed ... to put it mildly

for an argument sake, if an "inferior" pilot is entrusted to fly a modern jet in the air then he should also have been exposed to the training of using the stand off weapons against a relic of a cold war era plane and let the missile do all the work for him.
I trust that if a 12 year old can pull off some impressive flying skills on a flight simulator then so can that "inferior" pilot.

 

[IrbiS]

sorry wrong premise bordering blasphemy.

a pilot who would get to fly a technologically superior plane will have years of service and hundreds if not thousands of flight hours under his belt. he will be chosen among the best pilot candidates and only then he will make the grade to fly a multi million dollar plane so using "inferior" and pilot together with a modern jet is a little ill-informed ... to put it mildly

for an argument sake, if an "inferior" pilot is entrusted to fly a modern jet in the air then he should also have been exposed to the training of using the stand off weapons against a relic of a cold war era plane and let the missile do all the work for him.
I trust that if a 12 year old can pull off some impressive flying skills on a flight simulator then so can that "inferior" pilot.

Janab there's a diffirence in training by country so each's Inferiors have different quality levels. Like U.S pilot Dan Hampton writes in his book that he was in the backseat of Dual-seat F-16 with an Egyptian student at controls. On landing, the glide angle was a little low ( as you keep the nose up and put back wheels 1st and front wheel later ) so he asked the sheikh '' Nose Up '', nothing happened so he repeated again but still nothing. He did it himself only to discover later that the Egyptian DID his NOSE UP, literally

Is it expected from a PAF student?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Janab there's a diffirence in training by country so each's Inferiors have different quality levels. Like U.S pilot Dan Hampton writes in his book that he was in the backseat of Dual-seat F-16 with an Egyptian student at controls. On landing, the glide angle was a little low ( as you keep the nose up and put back wheels 1st and front wheel later ) so he asked the sheikh '' Nose Up '', nothing happened so he repeated again but still nothing. S o he did it himself only to discover later that the Egyptian DID his NOSE UP, literally

Is it expected from a PAF student?

please

quoting Arab airforces as an example is a criminal offence
(pun intended).....

 

[xyxmt]

Hi,

We all know that---but I thought it will be a feel good post for some---specially teenagers on this board who would be jumping up and down with excitement.

look like you needed it more than some teenager

 

[MastanKhan]

does it mean that Tejas can take out F-22? I always admit my ignorance re aviation so I always shudder at the generosity of such claims by our internet experts.
you didnt link the source of that gem of a comment.


indeed this is why the source of the gem was needed

@Irfan Baloch

Okay---I just posted it on my own after reading a comment from another poster----.

But guess what---someone else is using my line in an article posted on yahoo . com . Here is the link

How China's expert fighter jet designer avoids America's mistakes

And here is a little quote of this article on JF 17


" But if an F-16 can beat an F-35 in a dogfight, then so can a JF-17 ".

Does it look familiar----.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir how will you compare PAF &IAF by 2020?
Considering their future plans?
Suppose IAF retire all its fleet of old Mig21 & Mig 27 and replace them with Tejas or Gripen? Also Rafales and more MKI will be on their way and not to mention the "super sukhoi" upgrade.....
Similarly Suppose PAF get rid of its F7 & Mirages and replace them with Blk2,3 Thunders? Considering J10 and Su35 may be inducted to arm two squadrons At least???


Mig29 lost all dog fights against F15, F16 & Su27....... it has yet to attain a single "kill"...

Hi,

Before we get into the aircraft numbers and types---we need to look into the geography of Pakistan in relation to India..

Pakistan does not have to match the numbers. It needs an air force numbering 450--550 aircraft---ie---4th gen capability and above at the minimum.

Paf has decided to strengthen from bottom up and that is why we do not see a visible air dominance type of aircraft---and on the other side we also see a confusion---indecision---uncertainty---lack of focus and a choice of many a fighter aircraft waiting in line for their turn.

But whatever happens---Pakistan needs a medium sized bomber strike aircraft---there are no ifs and buts about it----.

New JH7B's or used refurbished SU 27's or a new SU 35---a decision needs to be made to fill up that hole in the frontal attack.

So---by 2020 IAF will be a very potent air force----. And as with PAF we don't know what they are getting in the future---we cannot make the judgement call.

But if it is what we see what it is----then Paf is in big trouble.