IED Blast in Parachinar

[Sharma Ji]

That’s incorrect. The Shia tribes in Parachinar have every interest in staying with the State of Pakistan because the Afghan government certainly can’t protect them from groups like ISIS & the TTP.

Despite multiple horrible terrorist attacks on those tribes, they have remained steadfastly loyal to Pakistan.

Ok, not an expert. Only said that because I've read multiple instances of Pakistanis discussing among themselves on this forum how that's a bit of a problem area.

Also, it's ok to have certain areas in your country where the locals might not be too fond of the central authorities because cultural/religious differences etc. Don't be that insecure and defensive now.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

This is the 'Pakistan Internal Security' subforum, and not the place for derailment or Indian propaganda but facts and reality on the ground.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Part in bold— not true, it is nothing like Indian occupied Kashmir for comparison. Sure writ of the state and government administration/representation was missing historically, but that’s not due to hostility to the state of Pakistan.

In fact, tribals welcomed the recent move of FATA becoming part of KPK province, it meant better representation. And in the past Afghanistan has tried very hard to ignite a Pushtunistan insurgency here. It has never worked because locals don’t support it.

Since 1955, Afghans did this, throughout that era in FATA radio transmissions of anti-Pakistan propaganda and Pashtunistan were heard from Afghanistan. In 1960/61 Afghan militia entered the area, our own tribesman fought them back. In summer 61’, they sent regulars, then both the military and FATA tribes stomped intruders.

Yes there are multiple very serious problems, but they are not separatist movements.

Never equated it to the Kashmir thing. Like I said, just based my statement of what I've seen Pakistanis proper discussing among themselves here, that there is a bit of a sectarian divide in said region.

Very interesting to learn of the history of the region, these radio transmissions and old hostilities with Afghanistan.. had no idea.

Thanks for all the great info, as you can tell, far from an expert on these matters lol, only here to learn and understand.

Sincerely, thanks.

Yes you are that capable, and yes your agencies would and have done this and more. This capability is enjoyed at very little cost due to the use of Afghan soil as a spring board against us.

Besides this, there are multiple clear cut and blatant cases of Indian backed terror in Pakistan in the last 10 years. Even if in singular cases your culpability cannot be surmised, it’s there in the broader picture, and we even have living proof of it in Kolbhushan.

Ok, colluding with these "pashtoonistan" Afghans and even the Baloch militants.. may well be.

What about all the other sunni extremism stuff, the jundallah, TTP and groups of that sort.. on what basis do you blame India for those (arguably much more dangerous) groups and their activities against the Pakistani state ? How are they taking orders from an increasingly militant Hindu entity and BJP controlled Indian intel apparatus ?

Haven't followed the Kulbhushan case at all, can't say.

 

[Clutch]

wut ?

that area has traditionally not been fond of the Pakistani state, and also been a target of sunni extremist groups.

Balochistan, Karachi KSE, this one now.. I doubt India are that capable.

Those are illusion of Indian media. Most of the rangers are from that area. Pakistan fabric is based on a Muslim nationhood for the subcontinent population. It is not a federation based upon ethnicity. This basis fundamental foundation is something Indians cannot comprehend... It stems from an Ummah.

Indian media, Indian politicians, Indian policy makers, and Indian Military Leaders including secret services... have all PUBLICALLY stated that they are proponents and supporters of terrorism in Pakistan! How much more evidence do you want?!.. They are more public and blatant about it than even ISIS!!.. You dont see YouTube videos of ISIS sympathizers advocating for terror attacks... BUT there are countless YouTube videos of Indian leaders doing so!!!!!... They are public about it!

 

[alhindi]

This is matter of internal problems .

 

[Jungibaaz]

Never equated it to the Kashmir thing. Like I said, just based my statement of what I've seen Pakistanis proper discussing among themselves here, that there is a bit of a sectarian divide in said region.

Very interesting to learn of the history of the region, these radio transmissions and old hostilities with Afghanistan.. had no idea.

Thanks for all the great info, as you can tell, far from an expert on these matters lol, only here to learn and understand.

Sincerely, thanks.

It's perfectly fine, IMO most outsiders don't know much about 'Af-Pak' affairs and history. That applies to Americans public on whose behalf it is being occupied, and also most Indians I've spoken to, with the exception of one or two Indian members here.

Ok, colluding with these "pashtoonistan" Afghans and even the Baloch militants.. may well be.

What about all the other sunni extremism stuff, the jundallah, TTP and groups of that sort.. on what basis do you blame India for those (arguably much more dangerous) groups and their activities against the Pakistani state ? How are they taking orders from an increasingly militant Hindu entity and BJP controlled Indian intel apparatus ?

Haven't followed the Kulbhushan case at all, can't say.

These militancies are very diverse, and their leadership often takes help from anti-Pakistani state elements in Afghanistan. This has been the case for a long time. They take help from the Afghan NDS where they can get it. If you think India helping groups like TTP is a mysterious clash of ideology, you should know the taliban and pakhtuns of Afghanistan they represented were literally at war at one time with the Northern Alliance that is in power today, TTP have had no problem whatsoever taking support from them.

Common ideology really isn't needed, a common purpose is more salient IMO. What's the common purpose from India's perspective? Weaken the Pakistani state, the army, undermine security, open a new front, tie Pak army resources in the West. Then there are those blatant cases I talked about, Kulbhushan basically admitted his crimes openly, the reason your government is obfuscating even with consular access is that his case is a very damning one, and very one-sided. I think the government of India has decided to conduct damage control on PR, and is resting assuredly that eventually he'll be released/exchanged.

Then there are the examples of specific terror attacks like those on PNS Mehran, PAF Minhas. These supposed religious lunatics, and rag tag terrorists had the wisdom somehow to penetrate well defended bases within sensitive areas. Then in their incredible intellectual capacity, they sought out high value targets like P-3C Orions in the case of the former attack, and Saab 2000 Erieye awacs in the case of the latter attack. How is it that these TTP militants knew to attack these points and then specifically chose those targets that are Pakistan's biggest force multipliers vs India, and provide unique capabilities, not to mention the highest value targets whereby hundreds of millions of dollars of damage was inflicted? Suicide bombers we capture from years worth of campaigning against terrorism often they are just street kids, refugees, uneducated and lost youth, they aren't even sure why they were doing what they were doing. How is it that groups of terrorists like these are able to co-ordinate and plan elaborate raids on heavily defended military bases and have the knowledge to go after the most sensitive targets? Taliban don't fear PAF awacs, and TTP last I checked don't have any submarines (I hope), these things don't just happen, they were made to happen, and India was the only beneficiary. It's another matter that years after, we've found a clear smoking gun in the form of Kulbhushan.

 

[newb3e]

A new Zarb-e-Azb is needed in the region. The effects of the old one are wearing off.

Better act fast.

last was useless because MaslihatHQ protecting terrorist leaders and only eliminating foot soldiers!

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Old animosities between Pakistan and Afghanistan were based on Afghan royal family, which also was a puppet of British. When Pakistan was made, they saw a chance to obtain territory but failed to convince Pukhtoons in Pakistan, due to previous backstabbing they did to them.

These Afghan royals also sided with India, which earned anger of Pukhtoons and further decreased their legitimacy in the eyes of Pakistanis and Afghans alike.

 

[Muhammed45]

Never equated it to the Kashmir thing. Like I said, just based my statement of what I've seen Pakistanis proper discussing among themselves here, that there is a bit of a sectarian divide in said region.

Very interesting to learn of the history of the region, these radio transmissions and old hostilities with Afghanistan.. had no idea.

Thanks for all the great info, as you can tell, far from an expert on these matters lol, only here to learn and understand.

Sincerely, thanks.


Ok, colluding with these "pashtoonistan" Afghans and even the Baloch militants.. may well be.

What about all the other sunni extremism stuff, the jundallah, TTP and groups of that sort.. on what basis do you blame India for those (arguably much more dangerous) groups and their activities against the Pakistani state ? How are they taking orders from an increasingly militant Hindu entity and BJP controlled Indian intel apparatus ?

Haven't followed the Kulbhushan case at all, can't say.

There is no Shia Sunni divide in Islamic World and also Pakistan as a part of it. Don't make up stories, Your audience are not fools. The only Groups responsible for these attacks against innocents are TTP and the likes. They never represents 200 million Pakistanis.

This lame propaganda to prove that Pakistan is insecure and full of sectarians is promoted by Indian and the minority of sectarians and separatists.

I'm sure that Pakistani Army can bring peace to the area. However, no One can stop sectarianism and the border attacks from 'free for all' Afghanistan. No One can stop Flow of Saudi money to the area. The much Pakistan gains power and independence especially financially the more the possibility of these terrorist will Fade. Inshallah

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

@Malik Alpha Let us save this topic for another thread. We should honor the people affected by this attack. They are our citizens.

There is no Shia Sunni divide in Islamic World and also Pakistan as a part of it. Don't make up stories, Your audience are not fools. The only Groups responsible for these attacks against innocents are TTP and the likes. They never represents 200 million Pakistanis.

This lame propaganda to prove that Pakistan is insecure and full of sectarians is promoted by Indian and the minority of sectarians and separatists.

I'm sure that Pakistani Army can bring peace to the area. However, no One can stop sectarianism and the border attacks from 'free for all' Afghanistan. No One can stop Flow of Saudi money to the area. The much Pakistan gains power and independence especially financially the more the possibility of these terrorist will Fade. Inshallah

Indian terrorism apparatus is responsible for the deaths of Sunni and Shias all over Pakistan, desecration of Shia maddaris and imam bargah in Kashmir, and Sunni jamia there.

Indian terrorists do not see any difference between us, so why should we?

Thanks for your post brother. I greatly admire your knowledge of Islam and your non-sectarian attitude. Allah swt bless you.

 

[Muhammed45]

You again, you don't ever learn, the people of Khurrum agency have always been loyal to Pakistan, they contribute huge volunteers for the FC and Armed Forces.

Shias have Great respect to Abu Bakr RA family. His son, Imam Ali's son in law, is One of the outstanding figures in Shia World. Mother Ayisha also, don't let these sectarians exhaust you brother. These hardships will end soon, soon enough.

 

[Sharma Ji]

It's perfectly fine, IMO most outsiders don't know much about 'Af-Pak' affairs and history. That applies to Americans public on whose behalf it is being occupied, and also most Indians I've spoken to, with the exception of one or two Indian members here.




These militancies are very diverse, and their leadership often takes help from anti-Pakistani state elements in Afghanistan. This has been the case for a long time. They take help from the Afghan NDS where they can get it. If you think India helping groups like TTP is a mysterious clash of ideology, you should know the taliban and pakhtuns of Afghanistan they represented were literally at war at one time with the Northern Alliance that is in power today, TTP have had no problem whatsoever taking support from them.

Common ideology really isn't needed, a common purpose is more salient IMO. What's the common purpose from India's perspective? Weaken the Pakistani state, the army, undermine security, open a new front, tie Pak army resources in the West. Then there are those blatant cases I talked about, Kulbhushan basically admitted his crimes openly, the reason your government is obfuscating even with consular access is that his case is a very damning one, and very one-sided. I think the government of India has decided to conduct damage control on PR, and is resting assuredly that eventually he'll be released/exchanged.

Then there are the examples of specific terror attacks like those on PNS Mehran, PAF Minhas. These supposed religious lunatics, and rag tag terrorists had the wisdom somehow to penetrate well defended bases within sensitive areas. Then in their incredible intellectual capacity, they sought out high value targets like P-3C Orions in the case of the former attack, and Saab 2000 Erieye awacs in the case of the latter attack. How is it that these TTP militants knew to attack these points and then specifically chose those targets that are Pakistan's biggest force multipliers vs India, and provide unique capabilities, not to mention the highest value targets whereby hundreds of millions of dollars of damage was inflicted? Suicide bombers we capture from years worth of campaigning against terrorism often they are just street kids, refugees, uneducated and lost youth, they aren't even sure why they were doing what they were doing. How is it that groups of terrorists like these are able to co-ordinate and plan elaborate raids on heavily defended military bases and have the knowledge to go after the most sensitive targets? Taliban don't fear PAF awacs, and TTP last I checked don't have any submarines (I hope), these things don't just happen, they were made to happen, and India was the only beneficiary. It's another matter that years after, we've found a clear smoking gun in the form of Kulbhushan.

alright, fair enough.

that's a handful to chew on.

thanks.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Shias have Great respect to Abu Bakr RA family. His son, Imam Ali's son in law, is One of the outstanding figures in Shia World. Mother Ayisha also, don't let these sectarians exhaust you brother. These hardships will end soon, soon enough.

This is an important distinction, thank you for bringing it up.

More that we speak about it, the more we can clear misconceptions on all sides.

Do you know that Sunni ulema (4 imams) declared that cursing Yazid is not a sin? We are not so different. Our historical views are very similar.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Indeed. Our problem is Sufyanis and sons of Umayyads.

Imam Ali AS, for sake of Unity of Muslims, kept us in one line. He threatened the ones that insulted mother Ayisha after Jamal incident with capital punishment. Refer toNNahjul Balagha for proof. He apologized her and in our word bowed to her husband's place. The ones insulting Sunnis are not a part of us for sure.

I saw one video of a reenactment of Ottoman oath, they praise Hazrat Ali RA and curse Yazid LA as part of their oath. They said, there is no sharper sword for justice than Zulfiqar, and no one braver than Hazrat Ali RA.

I believe Dilli Sultanat and Mughal empire had similar beliefs, also our ties with Safavi empire were amiable, most of the time.

When I was in Pakistan, I remember that they used to take a horse dressed as Zuljannah throughout the city (as a kid I used to think how cool,) many Sunnis like us would go to Shia Imam bargah to pay respects to Imam Hussain RAA on Ashura and listen to lectures, and we would join parades too for Ashura.

In most of the Muslim world, Sunni and Shia live in absolute peace, actually Pakistan does not even differentiate Sunni and Shia by law, we are all counted as the majority Muslim population.

Anyone who says that there is Sunni Shia problem, they exaggerate it for their own means. Vast majority of Muslims are at peace, regardless of sect.

The proof is that India has failed to divide Kashmiris on the basis of sect, both Sunnis and Shias are united for merger with Pakistan.

GB which is Ismaili majority is one of the most patriotic of Pakistani provinces. They give many troops also. We won half of Kashmir because of their sacrifice.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Going to leave some of the good posts that help sectarian harmony, but back to the topic please folks.