IDF Armored corps

[Beny Karachun]

I've seen videos of Spike and it comes in at a 45 degree angle not 90 degrees . the radar can see it and countermeasure can destroy it.

Countermeasure such as?
And, really?

Look at 0:59 tell me its not a top attack

a quick question bro that i was asking other Israeli members here too
spike or javelin in top attack mode vs trophy and merkava who will win.

Trophy will.

 

[Hell hound]

Countermeasure such as?
And, really?

Look at 0:59 tell me its not a top attack


Trophy will.

yeah judging by these videos in most cases trophy will win angle of attack is not that high

 

[DavidSling]

 

[Penguin]

yeah judging by these videos in most cases trophy will win angle of attack is not that high

30 degrees minimum

 

[Hell hound]

30 degrees minimum

so whats your opinion here sir do you think trophy can intercept it or not.

 

[Penguin]

so whats your opinion here sir do you think trophy can intercept it or not.

I couldn't tell you without first doing some research. 30 degrees referred to Lahat.

 

[Hell hound]

I couldn't tell you without first doing some research. 30 degrees referred to Lahat.

oh i was talking about spike vs trophy.

 

[DavidSling]

I guess we'll see it in action

 

[Hell hound]

I guess we'll see it in action

no we will not unless there is civil war in israel. you own both remember

 

[DavidSling]

no we will not unless there is civil war in israel. you own both remember

doesn't lebanon has javelin?
I remembered they had it

 

[Hell hound]

doesn't lebanon has javelin?
I remembered they had it

i didn't knew that how did they get them.even we don't have such sophisticated missiles.

 

[Penguin]

oh i was talking about spike vs trophy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_(missile)

The Spike missile uses a tandem warhead – two shaped charges, a precursor warhead to detonate any explosive reactive armor and a primary warhead to penetrate the underlying armor.

This cross section of Spike shows both the precursor ands main HEAT warheads are forward directed. If that is correct, then the only way to conduct top attack is a flight path that ends in a (shallow or steep) dive onto the armored target.

The SPIKE warheads are clearly not directed down, as is the case with e.g. the Swedish RBS-56 BILL and TOW 2B (see below), which overfly their targets (horizontally).

See also http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3670.html

NORMAL TOW

TOP ATTACK TOW

Which would suggest a similar approach is used as with LAHAT. That missile’s trajectory can be set to match either (top attack) armoured fighting vehicle, warship, or helicopter gunship (direct attack) engagements. The LAHAT missile hits the target at an accuracy of 0.7 m (2.3 ft) CEP and an angle of over 30 degrees, providing effective penetration of up to 800 mm (31 in) of RHA armor steel with its tandem warhead to deal with add-on reactive armor.

The dimensions of LAHAT are diameter 105 mm , length 975mm, weight 13kg, warhead 10kg.
The dimensions of SPIKE-ER are 170mm diameter, length 1,670 mm, weight ground launch (missile 14 kg + 9kg command and launch unit) .

In the video above (post #46) it indeed says "lofted trajectory for top attack" at 0:57, which means 'high approach", like with LAHAT. Since Spike has a larger diameter, and this determines the punch of the main HEAT charge, I would expect Spike to have clearly greater penetration power than LAHAT

Correct me if you think I'm wrong but AFAIK there is not tank in service today that has 800mm of RHA equivalent protection on the top, not even with ERA.

Illustrated below is the difference between direct attack (METIS M) and top attack (Spike)

doesn't lebanon has javelin?
I remembered they had it

Lebanese ground forces operate the following AT weapons: M72 LAW, RPG-7, Bofors AT4, M40 recoilless rifle, BGM-71 TOW, MILAN (VAB Mephisto), ATR-14 Kornet. Jordan has Javelin. As do Saudi Arabia and all Gulf states (Bahrain, Oman, Qatar and UAE).

 

[-------]

Trophy has blind spots front and rear.

 

[Penguin]

Trophy has blind spots front and rear.

Can you be more specific? And source your claim?

I've seen videos of Spike and it comes in at a 45 degree angle not 90 degrees . the radar can see it and countermeasure can destroy it.

Spike can do a 'lofted trajectory' for top attack, which makes it come in almost vertically. That doesn't mean it can't come in at other angles. It just isn't limited to it.

 

[Hell hound]

View attachment 326529
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_(missile)

The Spike missile uses a tandem warhead – two shaped charges, a precursor warhead to detonate any explosive reactive armor and a primary warhead to penetrate the underlying armor.

This cross section of Spike shows both the precursor ands main HEAT warheads are forward directed. If that is correct, then the only way to conduct top attack is a flight path that ends in a (shallow or steep) dive onto the armored target.

The SPIKE warheads are clearly not directed down, as is the case with e.g. the Swedish RBS-56 BILL and TOW 2B (see below), which overfly their targets (horizontally).
View attachment 326530

See also http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3670.html

NORMAL TOW
View attachment 326531

TOP ATTACK TOW
View attachment 326532

Which would suggest a similar approach is used as with LAHAT. That missile’s trajectory can be set to match either (top attack) armoured fighting vehicle, warship, or helicopter gunship (direct attack) engagements. The LAHAT missile hits the target at an accuracy of 0.7 m (2.3 ft) CEP and an angle of over 30 degrees, providing effective penetration of up to 800 mm (31 in) of RHA armor steel with its tandem warhead to deal with add-on reactive armor.

The dimensions of LAHAT are diameter 105 mm , length 975mm, weight 13kg, warhead 10kg.
The dimensions of SPIKE-ER are 170mm diameter, length 1,670 mm, weight ground launch (missile 14 kg + 9kg command and launch unit) .

In the video above (post #46) it indeed says "lofted trajectory for top attack" at 0:57, which means 'high approach", like with LAHAT. Since Spike has a larger diameter, and this determines the punch of the main HEAT charge, I would expect Spike to have clearly greater penetration power than LAHAT

Correct me if you think I'm wrong but AFAIK there is not tank in service today that has 800mm of RHA equivalent protection on the top, not even with ERA.

Illustrated below is the difference between direct attack (METIS M) and top attack (Spike)
View attachment 326533


Lebanese ground forces operate the following AT weapons: M72 LAW, RPG-7, Bofors AT4, M40 recoilless rifle, BGM-71 TOW, MILAN (VAB Mephisto), ATR-14 Kornet. Jordan has Javelin. As do Saudi Arabia and all Gulf states (Bahrain, Oman, Qatar and UAE).

thanks for the detailed reply bro spike truly is a remarkable missile against tanks with ERA and RHA. just want to ask you one more thing is it or for that matter any top attack missile is effective against active protection systems.