IAF Mirage 2000 upgrade: Scam of Biblical Proportions

[he-man]

Folks this is an old news but the data in the article holds.

51 mirage 2000 upgrade has cost us roughly 40 million dollars each......................cost of a brand new mig-29k

please read the article carefully and tell whether it smells of corruption or not

a single engine fighter of 80's with limited payload capability and a mediocre radar is all we get even after upgrade




the article itself----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NEW DELHI: Should India have simply gone in for new fighters rather than upgrading its 51 Mirage-2000s at an exorbitant cost? This question came to the fore once again on Monday with defence minister AK Antony telling Parliament that the upgrade cost for each jet was Rs 167 crore.

This when the last lot of the French-origin Mirage-2000s - their induction began in the mid-1980s - contracted by India in 2000 cost just Rs 133 crore apiece. However, Antony, in a written reply to Lok Sabha, said, "Applying an escalation of 3.5% per annum as per the pricing policy review committee, to the contracted cost of the year 2000, it works out to be Rs 195 crore at 2011 levels. Thus, the upgrade has been undertaken at 85% of the aircraft's escalated cost."

However, the Rs 167-crore figure does not give the full picture. The overall upgrade programme of the Mirage-2000s is pegged at Rs 17,547 crore, with the first two fighters being upgraded in France and the rest (49) by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) under transfer of technology (ToT). If this figure is taken into account, then each Mirage upgrade will cost Rs 344 crore.

India has inked two separate contracts in the upgrade programme, which kicked off last year with the help of French companies Dassault Aviation (aircraft manufacturer) and Thales (weapons systems integrator).

In July 2011, the upgrade programme was finalized at Rs 10,947 crore, which included both the French and HAL work-shares. Then, early last year, the second contract worth around Rs 6,600 crore for 490 advanced fire-and-forget MICA (interception and aerial combat missiles) systems to arm the fighters was finalized with French armament major MBDA. The overall upgrade package may even cross the Rs 20,000 crore-mark over the decade it will take to complete it, as earlier reported by TOI.

However, both MoD and IAF - down to just 34 fighter squadrons when over 44 are required to deter both Pakistan and China - maintain the upgrade will ensure the multi-role Mirages become "virtually new fighters" that will "remain current and potent" for over two decades more.

"Mirages have performed superbly since induction. IAF is going in for new acquisitions, which take a long time in our circumstances, as well as upgrades to retain its combat readiness," said an official.

Holding major upgrade decisions are "suitably negotiated" in a competitive environment, Antony admitted, "However, this (Mirage) upgrade programme also includes fitment of advanced multi-mode target radar, reconfigured glass cockpit and advance avionics, state-of-the-art electronic warfare system and capability to launch advanced missiles."

Even as it progressively inducts 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted for Rs 55,717 crore, IAF is also undertaking upgrade of its 63 MiG-29s at a cost of $964 million deal inked with Russia in March, 2008.

The force is also heavily banking upon the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters from Dassault, the final commercial negotiations for which are now in progress.
High cost of Mirage-2000 upgrade raises eyebrows - Times Of India

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I agree it smells of scam.Though i have two queries,whether this included mica purchase.Also the avionics,EW suite and radar's cost in modern aircraft takes up the bulk of its price.....so what i want to know is -could we not have invested this money in mig-35s to bulk up our squadron strength?

 

[he-man]

I agree it smells of scam.Though i have two queries,whether this included mica purchase.Also the avionics,EW suite and radar's cost in modern aircraft takes up the bulk of its price.....so what i want to know is -could we not have invested this money in mig-35s to bulk up our squadron strength?

the package without weapons is 2.4 billion for 49 planes

 

[Killswitch]

I think things could have been made easier if the M2K line had been bought. No need for rip off upgrades, or even the MMRCA. But Congress loves it kickbacks.

 

[GURU DUTT]

ram naam ki loot hai ...loot sake to loot ..ab mauka aya hai haath jai na ye bhi choot

sonia led congress will sell this nation if they come to power again ..period

 

[xyxmt]

should have asked us, we are expert in Mirage upgrade
all 51 for 40 mil

 

[he-man]

ab pachtaye hot kya jab chidiya chug gayi khet 
this chidiya is out again in rafale deal too

lol

 

[Abingdonboy]

Calm the eff down bro "scam of biblical proportions"- really?? Sensationalism me thinks.


The former ACM of the IAF quite clearly put across the case for this upgrade- either they throw away potent assets with 15+ years left of life in them or they upgrade them to a standard where they are amongst the most capable and deadly in the region. It's a fair enough point.


The IAF is one of the most professional AFs around so I think I'll take their opinions over yours mate.

 

[he-man]

Calm the eff down bro "scam of biblical proportions"- really?? Sensationalism me thinks.


The former ACM of the IAF quite clearly put across the case for this upgrade- either they throw away potent assets with 15+ years left of life in them or they upgrade them to a standard where they are amongst the most capable and deadly in the region. It's a fair enough point.


The IAF is one of the most professional AFs around so I think I'll take their opinions over yours mate.

i don't think that they qualify even remotely as one of the most lethal fighters of the region.

btw i only know that radar is lowly rdy-2 comparable to useless zhuk-me of mig-29.
what else did it get for 40 million??

dash standard,new cockpit.................!!

 

[madooxno9]

whatever the reason , i was always against this upgrade . We could have bought brand new 4.5+ gen aircraft. I think the decision was costly but this way we can keep up the dwindling numbers in IAF.

 

[Abingdonboy]

whatever the reason , i was always against this upgrade . We could have bought brand new 4.5+ gen aircraft. I think the decision was costly but this way we can keep up the dwindling numbers in IAF.

This is entirely point is entirely moot. Firstly what 4.5+ gen a/c could you have gotten for this price? The only ones would be Russian. And then most people forget that the life-cycle costs are far greater than the initial unit costs and in the case of the Russians MUCH, MUCH more. Western a/c are about 2-3 times more the Russians are easily 4-5.

This is before you start factoring in training costs, delivery delays and the all round added logistical head-ache that comes from inducting an entirely new platform.

As such the actual cost difference would be significant and that actually this Mirage upgrade was a CHEAP option comparably and keeps the IAF's SQD numbers up and keeps a familiar and well respected fighter within the IAF in service for a few more years.

 

[acetophenol]

whatever the reason , i was always against this upgrade . We could have bought brand new 4.5+ gen aircraft. I think the decision was costly but this way we can keep up the dwindling numbers in IAF.

Buying brand new aircraft and what? Spend another 5-10 years for completing the deliveries,another 5 years properly equipping them,training the aircrews,ground staff,getting in house facilities for repair and maintenance, and most of all Pilot expertise. On the other hand,M2k is a aircraft that we have already mastered and known like the back of our hands. We have everything we need related to this aircraft,whats wrong in adding teeth to it?
Remember,the cost include ToT and setting up of facilities in India. (@Abingdonboy,@he-man)Remember when all hell broke loose over the internet when reports of a large some came up for upgrading production of Pinaka rockets. That large sum included upgrading a good no.of OFB factories that led to one of them (don't remember names) developing in house versions of charges for naval arty and charges.

 

[he-man]

Calm the eff down bro "scam of biblical proportions"- really?? Sensationalism me thinks.


The former ACM of the IAF quite clearly put across the case for this upgrade- either they throw away potent assets with 15+ years left of life in them or they upgrade them to a standard where they are amongst the most capable and deadly in the region. It's a fair enough point.


The IAF is one of the most professional AFs around so I think I'll take their opinions over yours mate.

i don't think that they qualify even remotely as one of the most lethal fighters of the region.

btw i only know that radar is lowly rdy-2 comparable to useless zhuk-me of mig-29.
what else did it get for 40 million??

dash standard,new cockpit.................!!

This is entirely point is entirely moot. Firstly what 4.5+ gen a/c could you have gotten for this price? The only ones would be Russian. And then most people forget that the life-cycle costs are far greater than the initial unit costs and in the case of the Russians MUCH, MUCH more. Western a/c are about 2-3 times more the Russians are easily 4-5.

This is before you start factoring in training costs, delivery delays and the all round added logistical head-ache that comes from inducting an entirely new platform.

As such the actual cost difference would be significant and that actually this Mirage upgrade was a CHEAP option comparably and keeps the IAF's SQD numbers up and keeps a familiar and well respected fighter within the IAF in service for a few more years.

just compare it with mig-29 upg in any respect and mirage 2000 loses

in anything 

Buying brand new aircraft and what? Spend another 5-10 years for completing the deliveries,another 5 years properly equipping them,training the aircrews,ground staff,getting in house facilities for repair and maintenance, and most of all Pilot expertise. On the other hand,M2k is a aircraft that we have already mastered and known like the back of our hands. We have everything we need related to this aircraft,whats wrong in adding teeth to it?
Remember,the cost include ToT and setting up of facilities in India. (@Abingdonboy,@he-man)Remember when all hell broke loose over the internet when reports of a large some came up for upgrading production of Pinaka rockets. That large sum included upgrading a good no.of OFB factories that led to one of them (don't remember names) developing in house versions of charges for naval arty and charges.

yaar 40 million is impossible for upgrade that too of a modest aircraft like mirage 2000

its toooooo much 

This is entirely point is entirely moot. Firstly what 4.5+ gen a/c could you have gotten for this price? The only ones would be Russian. And then most people forget that the life-cycle costs are far greater than the initial unit costs and in the case of the Russians MUCH, MUCH more. Western a/c are about 2-3 times more the Russians are easily 4-5.

This is before you start factoring in training costs, delivery delays and the all round added logistical head-ache that comes from inducting an entirely new platform.

As such the actual cost difference would be significant and that actually this Mirage upgrade was a CHEAP option comparably and keeps the IAF's SQD numbers up and keeps a familiar and well respected fighter within the IAF in service for a few more years.

yes u are right............we had no option here i guess

but this is a poor planning by iaf

if they needed they could have got a new dedicated bomber like su-34 by signing deal 3-4 years ago

its just a shitty planning,nothing else and in a bomber role su-34 destroys mirage 2000

 

[Abingdonboy]

yes u are right............we had no option here i guess

but this is a poor planning by iaf

if they needed they could have got a new dedicated bomber like su-34 by signing deal 3-4 years ago

its just a shitty planning,nothing else and in a bomber role su-34 destroys mirage 2000

So if you accept this is merely poor planning then to call this a "scam of biblical proportions" is, you'll accept, a complete reach and actually a pretty malicious allegation. 
I in no way think the IAF needs the SU-34 nor would this be a cost-effective fit for the IAF as I have outlined.

 

[he-man]

So if you accept this is merely poor planning then to call this a "scam of biblical proportions" is, you'll accept, a complete reach and actually a pretty malicious allegation. 
I in no way think the IAF needs the SU-34 nor would this be a cost-effective fit for the IAF as I have outlined.

that amounts to scam only

and honestly what did we get for 40 million??
how can u defend this?

on the other topic,,su-34 is a dedicated bomber and will kick mirage 2000 arse