IAF losing edge over PAF:Military Intelligence.

[sancho]

what are the implications for the PAF now that the IAF has 'regained' the edge by short-listing the EFT and Rafale as their mainstay weapons system along with the SU-30MKI

Not much I would say, it was clear from the begining that the MMRCA winner will add numbers, but especially quality to IAF, no matter which one would have been choosen. So in a fighter vs fighter comparison PAF would be in disadvantage anyway, but they already made a smart decision to counter this "potential" threat with the addition of AWACS aircrafts!
I always said that neither the JF 17, nor the new F16 Block 52 are real game changers, but Saab Erieye and Y8 AWACS will be, because IAF will loose the advantage of long range radar detection and first sight that they have now with MKI. That will be crucial, because it doesn't matter too much how capable the fighter itself is, it only needs to be BVR capable and able to be conected with AWACS to be a real threat for IAF fighters. Same reason why Mig 21 Bisons with R77, guided by MKI are a big threat for the more capable F16s of PAF. And even if the AWACS platforms of PAF are less capable then the A50s in IAF, as long as PAF can counter it with numbers (and the advantage of just one borderline to cover), they will have a good defence capability even against MMRCAs.

what will the US do now - it seems to be 'sulking'!
the russians have not 'commented' on the deal?
SAAB was always out-of-the-running - will they flog the Gripen to the PAF (remember it has US engine)

Except of Sweden and Saab, the loosers will get other deals anyway $30 billion FGFA for Russia, $5.8 billion C17 for the US.

 

[Zarvan]

Not much I would say, it was clear from the begining that the MMRCA winner will add numbers, but especially quality to IAF, no matter which one would have been choosen. So in a fighter vs fighter comparison PAF would be in disadvantage anyway, but they already made a smart decision to counter this "potential" threat with the addition of AWACS aircrafts!
I always said that neither the JF 17, nor the new F16 Block 52 are real game changers, but Saab Erieye and Y8 AWACS will be, because IAF will loose the advantage of long range radar detection and first sight that they have now with MKI. That will be crucial, because it doesn't matter too much how capable the fighter itself is, it only needs to be BVR capable and able to be conected with AWACS to be a real threat for IAF fighters. Same reason why Mig 21 Bisons with R77, guided by MKI are a big threat for the more capable F16s of PAF. And even if the AWACS platforms of PAF are less capable then the A50s in IAF, as long as PAF can counter it with numbers (and the advantage of just one borderline to cover), they will have a good defence capability even against MMRCAs.




Except of Sweden and Saab, the loosers will get other deals anyway $30 billion FGFA for Russia, $5.8 billion C17 for the US.

yes sir radar are really very important but at the end we fight with fighters

 

[MastanKhan]

yes sir radar are really very important but at the end we fight with fighters

No sir---not any more----

You fight with technology now----if you wrap technology around a "BRICK" persay------it will outdo the finest of the fighters and the superior most of the fighter pilots----.

Technology is the ultimate killer----intelligent technology has changed the level of the playing field----.


PAF will have to match technology for technology---weapon for weapon----not in numbers but in effectiveness----meaning---for 300 indian aircraft---pak can have 100 aircraft of similiar strength and venom to take on the adversary in their zone---.

That is a losing end game for india----it will never have enoguh numbers to annihilate paf----result would be a stalemate---as usual.

 

[Vinod2070]

The PAF is always going to be in catch up mode now. IAF has the initiative with it.

Not a bad situation to be in. As our economy grows, PAF will just run out of steam. There is no way for it to keep catching up, in numbers and in tech.

 

[foxbat]

No sir---not any more----

You fight with technology now----if you wrap technology around a "BRICK" persay------it will outdo the finest of the fighters and the superior most of the fighter pilots----.

Technology is the ultimate killer----intelligent technology has changed the level of the playing field----.


PAF will have to match technology for technology---weapon for weapon----not in numbers but in effectiveness----meaning---for 300 indian aircraft---pak can have 100 aircraft of similiar strength and venom to take on the adversary in their zone---.

That is a losing end game for india----it will never have enoguh numbers to annihilate paf----result would be a stalemate---as usual.

Sir.. You assume that the goal of India is to annihilate PAF.

On the other hand, it all boils down to staying power. If Pakistan is forced to maintain 1/3rd the military power but has only 1/8th the spending power, the war (heaven forbid) is won before it starts.

 

[IceCold]

The PAF is always going to be in catch up mode now. IAF has the initiative with it.

Not a bad situation to be in. As our economy grows, PAF will just run out of steam. There is no way for it to keep catching up, in numbers and in tech.

That is only if you imagine Pakistan's economy to remain in a downward spiral while India's to remain booming. Other wise i don't see how PAF will run out of steam.

 

[IceCold]

Buddy....you are too logical to write here. Mind you; its Defence PK.

We can't catch Pakistan's speed in "manufacturing." Look their record in missile development; they only successfully test fire missiles; never failed. Even USA and Russia will envy of their record. After all, "paint work and giving a name" is less time-consuming work than developing something from scratch.

why did you felt the need to troll? To answer your post, let me ask you something will it matter in war whether the missile is made in Pakistan or just has its name on it. Will it make it any less effective? So spare us the sarcasm and focus on the topic at hand. By the way nice choice made by India in selection of mrca.

 

[Silk]

why did you felt the need to troll? To answer your post, let me ask you something will it matter in war whether the missile is made in Pakistan or just has its name on it. Will it make it any less effective? So spare us the sarcasm and focus on the topic at hand. By the way nice choice made by India in selection of mrca.

Any nation that wants to show its products will only show the final or good tests. It is rocket science. You need to crash now and then. In some nations showing the tests means it is in serial production. And sometimes you do not even hear about serial production unless you spy (J10). But the big difference between Pakistan and India is that both are busy with lots of programs. Pakistan succeeds and shows the end results. India is so busy with shouting and screaming about their products that it never becomes a reality. The excuse that the technology is the latest is cheap. As if other nations are not developing high tech. Like Babur/Ra'ad or Nasr are cheap tech imported from China/NK and repainted in Pakistan. That alone makes you wonder how India is busy in acting very cheap.

 

[Storm Force]

Silk.

We all know what the state is of both indian & Pakistan indengious weapons programmes.

There is a big difference between indengious, license manufacture, and total import

ie LCA, DHRUV, AND LAH are indian indengious

SU30MKI is license build. so will be Rafael or typhoon. and even FGFA

JF17 is license build the patent (ownership)of that machine belongs to chengdu of china.

Pakistan does not have a single helicopter or fighter programme that is indengious yet.

PAKISTANS INDENGIOUS WEAPONS ARE ITS as you mentioned cruise missles raaad and babur and the Al khalid tank.

There is no Pakistan indengious naval ship programme either.

Only license build if any at all.

In INDIA they have

Aircraft carrier vikrant iac2 in construction
Destroyers Kolkatta in construction & delhi class in service
Frigates type 17 in construction
Arihant nuke subs sea trials

all in production as we speak.

I wont mention missles for both sides the post is getting long and off TOPIC.

But i thought i had to challenge yet another PDF myth about i quote again "indengious weapons" programme

 

[Luftwaffe]

I am sorry 75% of your equipment is license built and purchased with patents belonging to someone else.

Gripen has many of the components and equipment patents belonging to US.

 

[mjnaushad]

Silk.

We all know what the state is of both indian & Pakistan indengious weapons programmes.

There is a big difference between indengious, license manufacture, and total import

ie LCA, DHRUV, AND LAH are indian indengious

SU30MKI is license build. so will be Rafael or typhoon. and even FGFA

JF17 is license build the patent (ownership)of that machine belongs to chengdu of china.

Pakistan does not have a single helicopter or fighter programme that is indengious yet.

PAKISTANS INDENGIOUS WEAPONS ARE ITS as you mentioned cruise missles raaad and babur and the Al khalid tank.

There is no Pakistan indengious naval ship programme either.

Only license build if any at all.

In INDIA they have

Aircraft carrier vikrant iac2 in construction
Destroyers Kolkatta in construction & delhi class in service
Frigates type 17 in construction
Arihant nuke subs sea trials

all in production as we speak.

I wont mention missles for both sides the post is getting long and off TOPIC.

But i thought i had to challenge yet another PDF myth about i quote again "indengious weapons" programme

You still dont understand different countries have different needs......


And for teh bolded part... Get over it stormforce .... Its been years

 

[Luftwaffe]

Someone has to remind sf that we are equal partners in JFT program...storm force try interpreting indigenous from global perspective not from an india eye.

 

[Tumba]

FATMAN 17 your projected Strength of IAF is way out.

For a start The remaing 125 mig21 bisons will be phased out by 2017 by tejas & more su30mki nos

jaguars will go on arrival of mmrca from 2014 onwards

SU30 MKI x 272 by 2017 (Surely gonna be around 300+ by the time of 2022... the biggest production line wont be just turned OFF..])
rafael/typhoon x 126 by 2014-2022 (IAF will order 60+ more of these beauties for sure ... by going to recent histories.. IAF always exercises the OPTIONS )
Tejas mk1 x 40 by 2016 (By 2022 these will be UPG to same level as MK2)
Tejas mk2 x 83 2016- 2022 (the nos will be around 100 by 2022 for sure...)
mirage2000-5 x 51 may not be upgraded (no way that these most potent strike fighters wont be Upgraded ... IAF will negotiate and finalize the deal with some MMRCA linkage )
mig29smt x 63 by 2013


NO mention of PAK/FA FGFA ... around 2 Sqs will be in place by 2022... PAK/FA will start arriving from Russia by 2017/18 and FGFA will start rolling out by 2020 ...in India

AMCA will have a few prototype and wil be in test run by 2022...

NAVY will greatly enhance its capabilities..

with
3 Acs ... minimum Fighters strength should be around 150+

i suspect

aroun 100 Mig-29K by 2022
N-Tejas .. 40+
N-MRCA or N-PakFA or may be F-35 ... 20 +

 

[krash]

The PAF is always going to be in catch up mode now. IAF has the initiative with it.

Not a bad situation to be in. As our economy grows, PAF will just run out of steam. There is no way for it to keep catching up, in numbers and in tech.

Sir.. You assume that the goal of India is to annihilate PAF.

On the other hand, it all boils down to staying power. If Pakistan is forced to maintain 1/3rd the military power but has only 1/8th the spending power, the war (heaven forbid) is won before it starts.

Yup cant wait..........been more than 60 years since we've been waiting for that.........C'mon already!

 

[TEXAS BATTLESTAR]

Silk.

We all know what the state is of both indian & Pakistan indengious weapons programmes.

There is a big difference between indengious, license manufacture, and total import

ie LCA, DHRUV, AND LAH are indian indengious

SU30MKI is license build. so will be Rafael or typhoon. and even FGFA

JF17 is license build the patent (ownership)of that machine belongs to chengdu of china.

Pakistan does not have a single helicopter or fighter programme that is indengious yet.

PAKISTANS INDENGIOUS WEAPONS ARE ITS as you mentioned cruise missles raaad and babur and the Al khalid tank.

There is no Pakistan indengious naval ship programme either.

Only license build if any at all.

In INDIA they have

Aircraft carrier vikrant iac2 in construction
Destroyers Kolkatta in construction & delhi class in service
Frigates type 17 in construction
Arihant nuke subs sea trials

all in production as we speak.

I wont mention missles for both sides the post is getting long and off TOPIC.

But i thought i had to challenge yet another PDF myth about i quote again "indengious weapons" programme

Perhaps, BUT you got to give Pakistan some credit for trying hard with the budget they have and the successes that they have so far. Meanwhile, India has a huge economy and can afford to do more R & D research in depth. Pakistan lately are getting good military equipments from both the USA and China, just like India are getting it from mostly Russia, some US, and some European.