IAF losing edge over PAF:Military Intelligence.

[TEXAS BATTLESTAR]

Just curious, will India be using the future Rafales and Typhoons (carrier version) for their next aircraft carrier?

 

[mautkimaut]

yes Tejas Project was started in 80s this shows your failure and Tejas Failure that it still hasnt been included in your airforce if it would have been more advance than your airforce you have inducted it many years ago

It takes time to test everything.even with the MMRCA , the competition was supremely tough and took over 2 years.
Indian fighters are tested from Leh to Kanya kumari , in all weather conditions that is why it takes time.
Unlike PAF which has its options limited ki jo mile kharid liya

 

[Mech]

Just curious, will India be using the future Rafales and Typhoons (carrier version) for their next aircraft carrier?

i think tejas.

 

[Army Strong]

Let me expand Indian logic MKI is even better than F22 if it come with stealth tech.

I think Russian are fool that they make SU35 and now working on other project

I'm sorry, but you're not capable of judging whether Russians are fools or not. Have you heard of the History Channel? Sure they may show it in Pakistan. Education in Pakistan is scarce isn't it? To the point anyways. Youtube "Future Dogfights", should be a history Channel program conveying the future greatest aircrafts obviously engaging combat. In par to par, THEY, the U.S depicts our Su-30MKI against there F-22, very capable in dogfights. To have our airplanes being depicted at the level of the F-22 is a great deal, kiddo. And they are true, and have extensive knowledge on defense analyzing. For which you and i don't posses. So before making a harsh comment "I think Russian' are fools", think first. It may help.

 

[Army Strong]

yes Tejas Project was started in 80s this shows your failure and Tejas Failure that it still hasnt been included in your airforce if it would have been more advance than your airforce you have inducted it many years ago

Aye, project did start in the late 80's, but if you were intelligent; you would know that we didn't start acquiring scare aviation equipment until the mid 90's. You're not capable to judge whether it's a failure or not. Yes, it's in production kiddo. But you wouldn't know about how much time it consumes to acquire several hundred parts for an aircraft, on top of being sanctioned. And developing an aircraft with very limited help from other nations. Sure, you can argue we got assist from France, but receiving limited help, doesn't take you far.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

so, how many Tejas have been inducted? How many squadrons? Has it participated in any air shows (local or foreign)?

i look forward to the undigested responses

 

[Jigs]

Aye, project did start in the late 80's, but if you were intelligent; you would know that we didn't start acquiring scare aviation equipment until the mid 90's. You're not capable to judge whether it's a failure or not. Yes, it's in production kiddo. But you wouldn't know about how much time it consumes to acquire several hundred parts for an aircraft, on top of being sanctioned. And developing an aircraft with very limited help from other nations. Sure, you can argue we got assist from France, but receiving limited help, doesn't take you far.

Limited help? The majority of the aircraft (parts) is brought from foreign markets. The problem here is for decades you have been trying to put together a aircraft that is taking so long you have to keep updating to stay with the times. Now the Tejas is pointless and a pet project. It has no value because if it did it would have gotten the attention it needed. Rather then putting out foreign contracts for aircraft. The same happened with the Arjun.

It is a trend that is dangerous. India should look to fix it. Or you end up throwing money at something that is no longer viable. You can learn from Pakistan on this. Who just had China work up a light fighter aircraft through a joint venture. Except in the case of Pakistan they actually needed the JF-17. In what way does India need the Tejas ?

 

[fatman17]

ASIA PACIFIC
Date Posted: 28-Apr-2011


Defence Weekly


India shortlists Typhoon, Rafale for MMRCA competition

Rahul Bedi Correspondent - New Delhi

Additional reporting by

Jon Grevatt Asia-Pacific Industry Reporter - Bangkok


Key Points
Indian Ministry of Defence officials have told that they have downselected the Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale for the MMRCA competition

The decision eliminates the Boeing F/A-18E/F, Lockheed Martin F-16IN, Saab JAS 39 Gripen and UAC MiG-35


India's Ministry of Defence (MoD) has shortlisted the Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale from the six competing for the Indian Air Force's USD10 billion Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) contest.

MoD officials said that, based on the technical evaluation of the six aircraft conducted by the IAF in 2010, on 28 April it would invite the Typhoon and Rafale to extend their commercial bids by 12 months. This was confirmed to by the Indian offices of Dassault and EADS, which is marketing the Typhoon in India. The bids were due to expire at month-end.

The bids will be opened in the next few weeks, after which price negotiations will start to finalise a deal that is expected to increase from 126 to 200 fighters at an estimated cost of USD15 billion-USD16 billion.

The IAF submitted trial reports on all six MMRCA contenders to the MoD in July 2010 after evaluating them on 643 technical aspects in desert, coastal and high-altitude conditions across India and in the respective vendors' countries.

Senior MoD officials in New Delhi told that they had informed the manufacturers of the other four contenders - the Boeing F/A-18E/F, Lockheed Martin F-16IN, United Aircraft Corporation MiG-35 and Saab JAS 39 Gripen - of their decision.

Saab issued a statement on 27 April in which it said that it was "not on the shortlist for the Indian MMRCA programme".

Lockheed Martin, which sold six C-130J Super Hercules military transport aircraft to India in March 2008, said in a statement that it "remains committed to our relationship with the IAF, MoD and the other services". Boeing said it was "obviously disappointed with this outcome," and after a review would "make a decision concerning our possible options, always keeping in mind the impact to the Indian Air Force."

Representatives from the other competing contractor, Russia's United Aircraft Corporation, which was bidding with its MiG-35 aircraft, had not responded to enquiries as went to press.

Sources at the Indian MoD said it had considered asking all six competitors to extend their commercial bids for another year beyond 30 April 2011 but taking into account the keenness of the countries involved and incessant lobbying for their respective fighters it had opted to downselect to two aircraft.

In contrast to previous procurement decisions, the price negotiating committee comprising MoD, IAF, industry and finance officials will base their decision on the fighters' life cycle costs over 40 years and 6,000 flying hours.

The IAF will acquire 18 aircraft off the shelf within 36 months of signing the deal. The remaining initial 108 will be built by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Bangalore.

The MMRCA deal also entails a mandatory 50 per cent local offset investment, so far exclusively in India's defence sector - up from the stipulated 30 per cent required for all military purchases over INR3 billion (USD71.42 million).

US ambassador Timothy J Roemer, who had lobbied hard on behalf of Boeing and Lockheed Martin's MMRCA contenders, said in a statement: "We are ... deeply disappointed by this news. We look forward to continuing to grow and develop our defence partnership with India and remain convinced that the United States offers our defence partners around the globe the world's most advanced and reliable technology."

Roemer, who announced his resignation on 27 April citing "personal reasons", said at a seminar in New Delhi on 9 March that the selection of either US fighter for the MMRCA contest would have been the "next logical step in taking the bilateral relationship forward. This will be a very important indicator of where this relationship goes in the 21st century".

The Eurofighter Typhoon has been downselected for India's MMRCA competition.

The Dassault Rafale has been downselected for India's MMRCA competition.

 

[Army Strong]

so, how many Tejas have been inducted? How many squadrons? Has it participated in any air shows (local or foreign)?

i look forward to the undigested responses

Participated in one of the biggest air show premiers, Aero India. Fourteen? Maybe ten? Insufficient resources, can't be answered jet. Does Jf-17 have an advanced beyond visual range system? Can the Jf-17 equip next generation missiles, or will it strive with the basic SD-10's. Ask me this question again in a few years, when India acquires aircrafts such as the PAK-FA, and then we'll both happily discuss whether the Tejas was a success, or not. I hope you do realize, the Tejas isn't a front line fighter, and was mainly produced to replace the aging soviet aircrafts, and to relentlessly acquire India with the proficient basis of building a supersonic combat aircraft.

 

[Jigs]

Who said India needed the Tejas?

Like i said pet project.

The Tejas arguably was innovated to apply our needs and to understand the conceptual creation of a supersonic combat aircraft after the Marut. Decades? I'm sorry but do you know what SANCTIONED means? Should i spell it out? We didn't receive many parts from foreign nation due to the sanctioning, and India at the time wasn't capable of producing it's spares and parts.

Sanctioning has nothing to do with it. The aircraft is almost all foreign and still not operational India obviously has not been sanctioned for a long time. It is only viable to invest in domestic aircraft production for two reasons as a technology demonstrator (which the Tejas isn't unless you want to know how to throw money at something for decades since it has no technology to demonstrate) the other is if it is the only way to fill your requirement for combat aircraft. (India can just put out contracts for better aircraft) So it is simply a failed project.

This obviously delayed us. We aren't like China who manufacture "stolen" unlicensed parts, and then build up from there.

I would actually view that as against your argument as when a country that can legally procure parts and international support from vendors still can't put out its own aircraft. Like i said Pakistan had the right approach with this. The way the Tejas is going you will have Turkey as another example soon enough.

 

[Army Strong]

Like i said pet project.



Sanctioning has nothing to do with it. The aircraft is almost all foreign and still not operational India obviously has not been sanctioned for a long time. It is only viable to invest in domestic aircraft production for two reasons as a technology demonstrator (which the Tejas isn't unless you want to know how to throw money at something for decades since it has no technology to demonstrate) the other is if it is the only way to fill your requirement for combat aircraft. (India can just put out contracts for better aircraft) So it is simply a failed project.





I would actually view that as against your argument as when a country that can legally procure parts and international support from vendors still can't put out its own aircraft. Like i said Pakistan had the right approach with this. The way the Tejas is going you will have Turkey as another example soon enough.

Sanctioning has nothing to do with it? This topic is useless and a never-ending debate. Rethink what you said, it's pointless for me to waste energy in steering my fingers for clearing an issue that i had posted in my earlier posts. Oh, mentioning this too. If a country produces and manufactures unlicensed technology, they capably have more "freedom" and "inequity" to explore that unmarked object that they are manufacturing illegally, because of the no restricted policy. If India produces manufactured parts, under licence, they are limited to what they can, and can't do with that technology. It's all under a contract.

 

[Jigs]

Sanctioning has nothing to do with it? This topic is useless and a never-ending debate. Rethink what you said, it's pointless for me to waste energy in steering my fingers for clearing an issue that i had posted in my earlier posts. Oh, mentioning this too. If a country produces and manufactures unlicensed technology, they capably have more "freedom" and "inequity" to explore that unmarked object that they are manufacturing illegally, because of the no restricted policy. If India produces manufactured parts, under licence, they are limited to what they can, and can't do with that technology. It's all under a contract.

Whatever you say.

 

[fatman17]

Just curious, will India be using the future Rafales and Typhoons (carrier version) for their next aircraft carrier?

they have ordered the MiG-29 and it is in the process of delivery (i think)

 

[KS]

Just curious, will India be using the future Rafales and Typhoons (carrier version) for their next aircraft carrier?

Given that EFT/Raffy have been down-selected and Rafale already has a operational carrier borne version (Rafale-M) it makes sense for the Rafale to fill the roles for N-MRCA.

they have ordered the MiG-29 and it is in the process of delivery (i think)

Fulcrums are for INS Vikramaditya (Gorshkov) and the INS Vikrant (the first of the three planned indigenous AC ).

The second and third (named tentatively INS Viraat and INS Vishal) will be larger CATOBAR carriers for which new combat aircraft (Naval-MRCA) will be procured.

 

[KS]

For all those thinking Tejas is a failed project think again.

The only reason the IAF has not inducted it so far is because IAF is no hurry or is desperate need for them to induct first and then test. The Tejas is NOT a front line fighter or will never be - there are the MKIs,Rafale/EFT and the FGFA for it.

It will just be a 4th gen point defence/intereceptor filling in the shoes of the aging Mig-21s and the boost the numbers for which they are admirably suited.

This is about the present MkI, the MkII will be much more than just that.