IAF losing edge over PAF:Military Intelligence.

[blain2]

JSF having DSI has nothing to do with stealth.... it was developed to ease some restriction on turning for the air flow... having a bump and dump are part of the design and is not the source for stealth design... imagine B2 bomber doesnt have it...

Intakes are a major consideration in stealth design due to the fact that they protrude awkwardly (variable geometry) and are a major source of feedback to radar signals. The DSI not only reduces this feedback, but also allows better air flow. So the DSI inlets do help reduce the overall RCS, however just by having DSI does not make an aircraft stealth, but it definitely adds a stealth attribute to the aircraft.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Intakes are a major consideration in stealth design due to the fact that they protrude awkwardly (variable geometry) and are a major source of feedback to radar signals. The DSI not only reduces this feedback, but also allows better air flow.

So a practical question... F-22?? B-2?? F-117??? T-50???

All the above have a better stealth characteristics than JSF

 

[blain2]

Yup............that was the w-hole point.



Every hardware-maker is improving their system.........what's new in that. If they are inducting new things in JF-17; it doesn't mean it will become SU-30MKI or Typhoon one day.




Modern spec F16.............. the same plane whose most advanced version is the least capable contender in Indian MMRCA.




What was the role of PLAAF in 1962???

One more funny thing..............whenever there is a talk regarding India China; you people always talk about 1962. But when we talk about 1971......you always start crying-----ITS NOT 1971; this is 2011 and that cannot be done now.




May be............but it is not India oriented force; like PAF. Plz have a look.

Self-sufficient is a great thing; but that does not mean that JF17 can beat F22 b'coz you (China) created it yourself.



You can find answer for this in your post.........to help you; I am posting it here again.

You folks will not be convinced about the capabilities of the JF-17 unless it actually mixes it with your very best and does some damage. All of this high and mighty talk about F-16 Blk 52 being the least capable contender in your MMRCA project and the JF-17 not being in the same league of other modern fighter aircrafts is all talk to assuage your insecurities gents. We are flying these platforms and know what they are capable of. Your downplaying the threat here does not change the fact that the JF-17 would be capable of precision attacks against your sites as well as launching standoff weapons against your very best aircraft in any future conflict. Since we have seen the past few wars and the conduct of your very best with very capable platforms for the time, we are fine taking our chances with the JF-17s and blk-52 F-16s. (and I say this respecting the IAF professionalism and aircraft).

In general, we have flown more Western aircraft than the IAF and have a pretty good idea as to where things stand right now with the JF-17. Its an aircraft which is competent enough to tackle the threats developing in the region currently. Lets leave it at that.

 

[blain2]

So a practical question... F-22?? B-2?? F-117??? T-50???

All the above have a better stealth characteristics than JSF

Based on what? Anything factual to go by or just Internet forum based opinion? Has a neutral source stated this?

 

[krash]

So a practical question... F-22?? B-2?? F-117??? T-50???

All the above have a better stealth characteristics than JSF

Answer this does the F-22 use the same radar avoidance principles as the F-117????

 

[kingdurgaking]

Based on what? Anything factual to go by or just Internet forum based opinion? Has a neutral source stated this?

DSI contributing to stealth is a accidental thing.. it is not developed for the purpose... if DSI reduces it is an advantage...

---------- Post added at 08:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 PM ----------

Answer this does the F-22 use the same radar avoidance principles as the F-117????

All the stealth principle lies on same fact radar avoidance.. F-22 uses more technology apart from this like cancelling the signal etc etc

 

[MastanKhan]

"To make a stealthy aircraft, designers had to consider five key ingredients: reducing the imprint on radar screens, muffling noise, turning down the heat of its infrared picture, stifling radio transmissions and making the plane less visible. The leading and trailing edges of the wing and tail have identical sweep angles (a design technique called planform alignment). The fuselage and canopy have sloping sides. The canopy seam, bay doors and other surface interfaces are saw-toothed. The vertical tails are canted. The engine face is deeply hidden by a serpentine inlet duct and weapons are carried internally. "

Sir,

Stealth is not based on radar avoidance-----global security dot org has a wonderful article about it---please invest some time and read it. Thank you.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan still needs to act more and get some more plane Pakistan should go fo J-10 B and also should try to get some other fighter planes because India later or sooner go ahead with EuoroFigther or Rafale

 

[All-Green]

DSI contributing to stealth is a accidental thing.. it is not developed for the purpose... if DSI reduces it is an advantage...

I guess this was discussed amongst the technical members on this forum on multiple threads, i can understand the context when a group was adamant that DSI was not developed for stealth.
However that particular argument was limited only to the initial development of DSI in context of JSF and the original motivation to go the DSI way.
Nobody can deny that DSI actually reduces RCS and that is a benefit any modern aircraft designer shall consider.

In current scenario however, the designer is aware of the benefits of DSI in terms of RCS reduction on top of the improvement in thrust etc. due to weight reduction and lesser maintenance due to removal of movable parts.

You my friend are really not making a point anymore going on about why DSI was envisioned...we are not discussing the why but how it has helped JF-17.
The relevance in terms of JF-17 is not the initial development of DSI during F-35 program but the benefits of having DSI in a modern aircraft design like JF-17.
The DSI on JF-17 have indeed reduced its RCS thus improving its chances in combat.

 

[KingOfGods]

u are asking like there is a theory for war that war should be fought by the foreign weapons self made weapons are not good for war he is trying to say self made thingy have no problem in supply in case of war.

Self made things = Foreign design, foreign engine, foreign avionics, foreign weaponary, foreign radar..................SELF ASSEMBLED is the right word.

yes we made this super duper air craft serving better than ur tejay we made it with help of our chinese brothers

WOW..................kya baat hai. Even your Chinese brothers won't agree with you. Claiming someone's creation as own is as bad as steeling. You are only assembling/manufacturing it. THIS IS A CREATION OF CHINA..............NOT OF PAKISTAN. Pakistan only arranged money and things which either cannot be made by both countries or not accepted by PAF due to quality or other things. We all know how good you are as a country in producing something.

we didnt wasted money and time like u guys did with ur arjunk n tejas

Yes. You don't waste money and time, and just steal.

Please don't compare Tejas and JF. JF17 and Tejas are same in specifications; but not in origin.

JF is "Kahin ki Eent, kahi ka Roda, Bhanumathi ne Kunba Joda" whereas Tejas is a self-made plane, which was started from scratch.

Good things take time to happen. Eurofighter program started in 1983; Gripen in 1982, Dassault Rafale in 1982-82, and F22 in 1986. So if the countries with rich past experience can take time in developing new fighter jet, then country like India without such experience will obviuosly take more time.

we didnt wasted money and time like u guys did with ur arjunk n tejas; which are still dreaming to become part of IAF from last 30 years .

Success Comes To Those Who Dare To Dream............not to them who buy/borrow/steal them.

 

[KingOfGods]

Pakistan still needs to act more and get some more plane Pakistan should go fo J-10 B and also should try to get some other fighter planes because India later or sooner go ahead with EuoroFigther or Rafale

Very True and very logical.

 

[Zarvan]

Self made things = Foreign design, foreign engine, foreign avionics, foreign weaponary, foreign radar..................SELF ASSEMBLED is the right word.



WOW..................kya baat hai. Even your Chinese brothers won't agree with you. Claiming someone's creation as own is as bad as steeling. You are only assembling/manufacturing it. THIS IS A CREATION OF CHINA..............NOT OF PAKISTAN. Pakistan only arranged money and things which either cannot be made by both countries or not accepted by PAF due to quality or other things. We all know how good you are as a country in producing something.



Yes. You don't waste money and time, and just steal.

Please don't compare Tejas and JF. JF17 and Tejas are same in specifications; but not in origin.

JF is "Kahin ki Eent, kahi ka Roda, Bhanumathi ne Kunba Joda" whereas Tejas is a self-made plane, which was started from scratch.

Good things take time to happen. Eurofighter program started in 1983; Gripen in 1982, Dassault Rafale in 1982-82, and F22 in 1986. So if the countries with rich past experience can take time in developing new fighter jet, then country like India without such experience will obviuosly take more time.



Success Comes To Those Who Dare To Dream............not to them who buy/borrow/steal them.

sir our engineers were also involved in the same numbers as of chinees we always call it joint project but mainly developed by looking forward the needs of Pakistan Airforce and yes dont compare TEJAS with JF-17 because JF-17 is father of TEJAS wo kia hay na kay baap lagta hay

 

[KingOfGods]

So i guess the MKI upgrade is a fail upgrade because the orignal manufacturer is not upgrading its plane to MKI ....

Rest of your post doesn't value enough and is off topic.

Means??? What was the logic and how is it relevant to the post, it answered?

 

[krash]

Self made things = Foreign design, foreign engine, foreign avionics, foreign weaponary, foreign radar..................SELF ASSEMBLED is the right word.



WOW..................kya baat hai. Even your Chinese brothers won't agree with you. Claiming someone's creation as own is as bad as steeling. You are only assembling/manufacturing it. THIS IS A CREATION OF CHINA..............NOT OF PAKISTAN. Pakistan only arranged money and things which either cannot be made by both countries or not accepted by PAF due to quality or other things. We all know how good you are as a country in producing something.



Yes. You don't waste money and time, and just steal.

Please don't compare Tejas and JF. JF17 and Tejas are same in specifications; but not in origin.

JF is "Kahin ki Eent, kahi ka Roda, Bhanumathi ne Kunba Joda" whereas Tejas is a self-made plane, which was started from scratch.

Good things take time to happen. Eurofighter program started in 1983; Gripen in 1982, Dassault Rafale in 1982-82, and F22 in 1986. So if the countries with rich past experience can take time in developing new fighter jet, then country like India without such experience will obviuosly take more time.



Success Comes To Those Who Dare To Dream............not to them who buy/borrow/steal them.

I would advise all our respectable members here not to take that bate........let the troll jump around a little and then settle out of fatigue......Idiocy deserves ignorance not attention.

 

[KingOfGods]

You folks will not be convinced about the capabilities of the JF-17 unless it actually mixes it with your very best and does some damage.

JF17 is a good plane.....yes; possibly is.

JF17 is a super-duper unmatched or invincible plane.........not TRUE (period).

All of this high and mighty talk about F-16 Blk 52 being the least capable contender in your MMRCA project and the JF-17 not being in the same league of other modern fighter aircrafts is all talk to assuage your insecurities gents.

Insecurities............about what?

We are flying these platforms and know what they are capable of. Your downplaying the threat here does not change the fact that the JF-17 would be capable of precision attacks against your sites as well as launching standoff weapons against your very best aircraft in any future conflict.

How do you know all that? We are yet to decide the brand of our 126 planes; and you still know that JF17 can beat all of them plus some 180-200 SU-30 MKI plus 69 Mig-29 plus 51 Mirage 2000.....................Astrology........I believe.

Since we have seen the past few wars and the conduct of your very best with very capable platforms for the time, we are fine taking our chances with the JF-17s and blk-52 F-16s. (and I say this respecting the IAF professionalism and aircraft).

In general, we have flown more Western aircraft than the IAF and have a pretty good idea as to where things stand right now with the JF-17. Its an aircraft which is competent enough to tackle the threats developing in the region currently. Lets leave it at that.

You had flown Sabre; so you know what the Eurofighter, Rafle, or Gripen are capable of..........right?

I am a bit confused..........can you please explain - JF17 is so great of a plane, but you still consider F16 (even block 15) your best fighter........why?