IAF losing edge over PAF:Military Intelligence.

[SR 71 Blackbird]

F-15SG
F-15K

MKI is best in the Subcontinent no doubt about that.

 

[fast]

Fast: Ain't you able to comprehend the simple English????

It's a bit difficult to comprehend lying, bending of truth, embellishing of facts, and self-delusional statements.

 

[SQ8]

That settles it..
Another case of MKItabh syndrome...

no point discussing this further..
The article itself however.. once.. looked at again also gives the impression that the Migs are aging faster than previously thought..
and that the frustration in the IAF over the GoI's dithering on the MRCA decision is reaching boiling point.

 

[rockstarIN]

Whats a third country Mig??
Arent the Migs Russian in the first place..
if you are alluding to downgraded systems..
I suppose the Yugoslav migs were downgraded as well?
and the Iraqi ones..

Or the East german migs that were tested again and again..

The MKI the F-22 of Asia?..
please.. there is a limit to being jingoistic.
Its a great plane.. there is no doubting that.. those that do are idiots.. but it isnt a complete game changer..

Well.. the col in the much hated by Indians video was one very experienced pilot.
But he boo boo'ed the MKI. how dare he..
Im starting to agree with Xeric....

Well, Mig-29s of Iraq, Yugoslav were inferior to the opposing forces + no AWS too, there is no doubt about it.

And I do not think MKI is the F-22 of South Asia though.......and about to col.., the same air force yanks praised in Cope India ....

Anybody can boo boo...remember the EF pilot who got lock on to F-22 in exercise? then they canceled the whole mock combat..

 

[Windjammer]

Let the Indians rest under Flanker protection.

 

[SR 71 Blackbird]

Let the Indians rest under Flanker protection.

Have you got only 1 picture of MKI?

 

[Black Widow]

It's a bit difficult to comprehend lying, bending of truth, embellishing of facts, and self-delusional statements.

So you are scaring me by using tongue twisting baron's English??? .. I put my words in simple British English.. I am not responsible for your illusion or dillusion...

 

[SQ8]

Well, Mig-29s of Iraq, Yugoslav were inferior to the opposing forces + no AWS too, there is no doubt about it.

And I do not think MKI is the F-22 of South Asia though.......and about to col.., the same air force yanks praised in Cope India ....

Anybody can boo boo...remember the EF pilot who got lock on to F-22 in exercise? then they canceled the whole mock combat..

Off course they praised it in Cope India..
considering the IAf wanted to play with a handicapped USAF.. but then.. they were emulating the PAF.. good for them.
The F-22 has been locked on by several other jets..
three cases where it was called off.. was when the jets broke safety rules to get a lock on the 22..
Ef's got a lock on F-15's.. Su-30MKI's outsmarted EF's.. F-16's took out EF's in WVR.. so am I to conclude that the F-16 is the best jet all around??
Gimme something better than that.

 

[Dazzler]

Which parameter you would like to discuss on??? Su37 is closest to Su30 MKI.. I didn't find good information on MKi...

And more over .. the information available are not 100% accurate, No one release such information in pamphlet... Most of the things are either speculation or leaks from insiders...

This disqualifies your statement of MKI being the best in Asia which it is far from. The truth is that MKI is a lethal weapon but has its share of short comings too. Hige RCS is the biggest drawback but extra range is an advantage. Radar is not AESA hence can be countered, jammed. In another thread, i mentioned BARS tracking range for 3ms target which is less than 130 kms as mentioned commonly. It will be detected first by blk 52 and JFT simply because of its huge RCS so there goes the notion of "best in Asia or South Asia". Both fighters are small enough and have very small RCS that will be their advantage. Alot of factors come into equation but will discuss later.

 

[SR 71 Blackbird]

You were telling that MKI never outsmarted any aircraft?

 

[rockstarIN]

F-15SG
F-15K

Can say one of the best..!!

 

[SQ8]

You were telling that MKI never outsmarted any aircraft?

sure it has.. it left RAF Typhoons in a fix..
in one engagement..

It had repeatedly outfought the RSAF F-16's ..
but then..

It gets taken out by good old F-15's and F-16's..

came down to knowing how to fight.. and knowing how to use your machine.

Rockstar.. been saying that all along..
ON record..
The MKI is one of the best machines operational in an Asian Air Force

That said.

It is not the F-22 of Asia(crappy term btw).. it is not the best.. all round..
and it is certainly not invincible when it comes to its potential adversaries.

 

[Black Widow]

Off course they praised it in Cope India..
considering the IAf wanted to play with a handicapped USAF.. but then.. they were emulating the PAF.. good for them.
The F-22 has been locked on by several other jets..
three cases where it was called off.. was when the jets broke safety rules to get a lock on the 22..
Ef's got a lock on F-15's.. Su-30MKI's outsmarted EF's.. F-16's took out EF's in WVR.. so am I to conclude that the F-16 is the best jet all around??
Gimme something better than that.

don't derail the discussion, rockstar's main point was inferiority of Yugoslavian MiGs were downgraded, no AWACS... So please focus on it...

@Red Flag: these kind of Games are there to fool each other. Neither USAF nor IAF was operating at 100% technical level. No one can lock F22 if it is operating under 100% ability...

Read these points, These points are applicable to F16, F22 and JF17...

"1.The Su-30MKI did not use the data link in the exercise unlike the other air forces. The reason being the HAL supplied system is not compatible with NATO data links – neither is the system required to be compatible with NATO. The speaker clearly mentions that the high fratricide ratio in the kills was because of this reason. While NATO air forces are designed to inter operate with each other and carry out joint missions, the IAF is not.

2.The aircraft were operating their radars on training mode since the actual signals with which the Bars radar operates are kept secret."


I will say it again, Rockstar main point was "Iraqi and slavian MiGs were downgraded, not well maintained (due to weapon embargo), No AWACS..." The point is It will be not easy to shoot down Indian or Russian MiGs the way they shoot down others...

 

[Jigs]

You really haven't been following threads have you, whats so great about the MKI that makes it invincible? With a huge RCS like that, PAF can see it coming from miles away.

You should read up on the SU-30MKI. I have already read up on the JF-17 and F-16 b52+.

Well it sure can take a shot, but definitely the other aircrafts will take a shot too. Considering both India and Pakistan are next to each other, most fights will take place in visual range or max distance of 40km. The multipliers cancels out MKI's huge radar range, that is the biggest asset that is placed on the MKI. For MKI to shoot multiple aircrafts is laughable at best, if our aircrafts go 1 on 1 than you have a point but fortunately wars are not fought 1 on 1. Did you see the PAF back off after the Mumbai attacks, the Indians tried to act naughty and sent an MKI to snoop around. The PAF responded with an iron fist, the MKI was locked and tailed by the F16 throughout.

Why is it laughable that it can shoot down multiple aircraft 1/1 engagements are not going to happen this is 2011 dogfighting is no longer viable. It will be BVR combat. Air forces that still emphasis dogfighting as the main part of their doctrine are now outdated.

No one is saying that MKI is a bad fighter, its good very good but its certainly not a God's Gift to Aviation as our Indian friends make it out to be. Indians must be day dreaming if they think the MKI can enter our airspace without being shot down.

Right and you are at a disadvantage against it. I mean why is hard to understand this ?

 

[rockstarIN]

Off course they praised it in Cope India..
considering the IAf wanted to play with a handicapped USAF.. but then.. they were emulating the PAF.. good for them.
The F-22 has been locked on by several other jets..
three cases where it was called off.. was when the jets broke safety rules to get a lock on the 22..
Ef's got a lock on F-15's.. Su-30MKI's outsmarted EF's.. F-16's took out EF's in WVR.. so am I to conclude that the F-16 is the best jet all around??
Gimme something better than that.

USAF F-15s and F-16s were handicapped? give me a break, whereas It was not MKI from our side, it was just basic Su-30.

I do not know what you are writing, but AFAIK, once one F-16 go a lock on on F-22, but that too was destroyed in mock fight.(Apart from EF recently)

And where is WVR regarding to F-22? then Why F-22, only F-16 with 'Fox-3' is enough.