IAF losing edge over PAF:Military Intelligence.

[Abingdonboy]

^^^ Exactly, what has PAF got in its inventory that can beat a MKI? answer- nothing!!

This is just the IAF top brass trying to get MoD to pull their fingers out for MMRCA and other AF procurements currently stuck on the desks of MoD beauracrats (Attack Helo (Apache), Heavy lift helo (Chinook), Naval helo (MH-60R), LUH (A3550), Super heavy lift cargo plane (C-17) etc).

Let's be honest the IAF has more than enough resources both in quantity, quality and resources (funds) available- the MKI is un-matched in the skies of Asia (and most of the world). Along with the UPG M2k and Mig 29 which would give any plane in PAFs inventory a good fight let alone the Bison which is a formidable beast (ask USAF). Add into the equation the Phalcon - the world's most advanced AWACS (note MKIs can act as "mini" AWACS amongst themselves) and IL 78 MKI refuellers (note MKIs can use "buddy" refuelling to extend their range) then the PAF is well and truly beaten. This is not taking into account UPG Jaguars and Mig 27.

Now if your still not convinced note future acquisitions of the IAF: 22 (although most people expect the number to increase to 40-70 units) Apache Block III (the most advanced attack Helo in the world), 15 Chinooks (again number most likely to increase), 250-300 PAK-FA/FGFA 5th Gen fighters, 200+ UCAVs, 10 (20+ is a figure floating around) C-17 strategic air lifters, 170+ LCH, 126 ( deal is almost certain to increase -especially after this fear mongering- to 200-260 units) EFT, Rafele,SH are front runners, 150+ LCA (maybe more and MK2 is going to be MUCH more powerful!)
There's probably more....

This is before you take into account IN ACC (45 Mig 29k, 50-100 N-LCA, 75+ N-MMRCA (NEFT, N-Gripen, SH,Rafel-M)) operating off upto 3 ACC by 2020. It's more than likely the IN air arm could take on the ENTIRE PAF by 2020 on its own.

Right now in 2011 the IAF's budget is 4-5 times more than Pakistan's ENTIRE defence budget! And with a healthy 8-11% economic growth rate the gap is only going to increase (especially given India's defence budget is a much smaller proportion of its GDP than Pakistan's). So come on, do you really think a country comparable in defence spending with BELGUIM can compare with a country comparable with FRANCE/GERMANY??

 

[Abingdonboy]

^^^ Is this guy serious?!!?? What planet does he live in??!

This is just the IAF top brass trying to get MoD to pull their fingers out for MMRCA and other AF procurements currently stuck on the desks of MoD beauracrats (Attack Helo (Apache), Heavy lift helo (Chinook), Naval helo (MH-60R), LUH (A3550), Super heavy lift cargo plane (C-17) etc).

Let's be honest the IAF has more than enough resources both in quantity, quality and resources (funds) available- the MKI is un-matched in the skies of Asia (and most of the world). Along with the UPG M2k and Mig 29 which would give any plane in PAFs inventory a good fight let alone the Bison which is a formidable beast (ask USAF). Add into the equation the Phalcon - the world's most advanced AWACS (note MKIs can act as "mini" AWACS amongst themselves) and IL 78 MKI refuellers (note MKIs can use "buddy" refuelling to extend their range) then the PAF is well and truly beaten. This is not taking into account UPG Jaguars and Mig 27.

Now if your still not convinced note future acquisitions of the IAF: 22 (although most people expect the number to increase to 40-70 units) Apache Block III (the most advanced attack Helo in the world), 15 Chinooks (again number most likely to increase), 250-300 PAK-FA/FGFA 5th Gen fighters, 200+ UCAVs, 10 (20+ is a figure floating around) C-17 strategic air lifters, 170+ LCH, 126 ( deal is almost certain to increase -especially after this fear mongering- to 200-260 units) EFT, Rafele,SH are front runners, 150+ LCA (maybe more and MK2 is going to be MUCH more powerful!)
There's probably more....

This is before you take into account IN ACC (45 Mig 29k, 50-100 N-LCA, 75+ N-MMRCA (NEFT, N-Gripen, SH,Rafel-M)) operating off upto 3 ACC by 2020. It's more than likely the IN air arm could take on the ENTIRE PAF by 2020 on its own.

Right now in 2011 the IAF's budget is 4-5 times more than Pakistan's ENTIRE defence budget! And with a healthy 8-11% economic growth rate the gap is only going to increase (especially given India's defence budget is a much smaller proportion of its GDP than Pakistan's). So come on, do you really think a country comparable in defence spending with BELGUIM can compare with a country comparable with FRANCE/GERMANY (and more in the future)?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

^^^ Exactly, what has PAF got in its inventory that can beat a MKI? answer- nothing!!

Let's be honest the IAF has more than enough resources both in quantity, quality and resources (funds) available

It has the resources.... but depends how u play it....Look at ur deals n progs still nowhere near completion.

-

the MKI is un-matched in the skies of Asia (and most of the world). Along with the UPG M2k and Mig 29 which would give any plane in PAFs inventory a good fight

Over confidence kills..... F-16s,Advanced JF-17s--including stealthy blocks,FC-20 and probably J-20 or F-35(in the long run).

let alone the Bison which is a formidable beast (ask USAF).

Wats the ratio of crashes? ask IAF.


P.S=Not sure when USAF got involved... it wasnt there at the red flag.

Add into the equation the Phalcon - the world's most advanced AWACS

I doubt it....... Plus how many of them do u have and how big is ur territory?Against 8+ PAF awacs.

(note MKIs can act as "mini" AWACS amongst themselves)

Do they miraculous blind other AWACS n radars?

and IL 78 MKI refuellers (note MKIs can use "buddy" refuelling to extend their range) then the PAF is well and truly beaten.

Magical tanker i presume.

This is not taking into account UPG Jaguars and Mig 27.

Obsolete.

Now if your still not convinced note future acquisitions of the IAF: 22 (although most people expect the number to increase to 40-70 units) Apache Block III (the most advanced attack Helo in the world),

Love the predictions n over exaggerations.

15 Chinooks (again number most likely to increase),

Been hearing abt those 15 helis since 2007.Yet there is not even a deal finalised.........Ans ur talking about future.

250-300 PAK-FA/FGFA 5th Gen fighters,

It is 200-250 jet.... not 250-300......and tht years ahead..... not till 2020....PAF will also field a 5th gen fighter by tht time.

200+ UCAVs,

LOL again over exaggerations.......Which UCAV???????????? aura? thts on drawing board....and ur have 200 on order already?

Dnt worry we just ordered CH-3 UCAV and have Burraq under development.

10 (20+ is a figure floating around) C-17 strategic air lifters

Yeah floating around...... These r real offensive weapons.

170+ LCH,

Over exaggerations again!!!!!!!!!!!!! as of now only 65 are on order...... i dnt know if u have even started its final manufacturing.

We will induct T-129s with joint production....... and get Super cobras............

P.S=Helis have no importance against jets......Armies fly them.

126 ( deal is almost certain to increase -especially after this fear mongering- to 200-260 units) EFT, Rafele,SH are front runners,

Dude first but the 126...... we have been hearing abt them since a decade now........And the first would reach after 2015...if u finalise them even today...

We will fielf FC-20s against them.

150+ LCA (maybe more and MK2 is going to be MUCH more powerful!)

Where the the 1st LCA?.....lol at future.........we already have a new stealthy block in the pipeline.

This is before you take into account IN ACC (45 Mig 29k, 50-100 N-LCA, 75+ N-MMRCA (NEFT, N-Gripen, SH,Rafel-M)) operating off upto 3 ACC by 2020. It's more than likely the IN air arm could take on the ENTIRE PAF by 2020 on its own.

Okay.. lol

Right now in 2011 the IAF's budget is 4-5 times more than Pakistan's ENTIRE defence budget! And with a healthy 8-11% economic growth rate the gap is only going to increase (especially given India's defence budget is a much smaller proportion of its GDP than Pakistan's). So come on, do you really think a country comparable in defence spending with BELGUIM can compare with a country comparable with FRANCE/GERMANY??

Thts cool......

 

[axisofevil]

Our strategic planners in the Airforce have no vision..Period..They employ old useless tactics and never adapt or evolve new tactics. This can only be done by injecting the military with fresh 'blood" from Indians born in foreign lands. If MMS and others ask for NRI's to contribute in other disciplines in India why not the military? A college level kid has better strategic vision than this useless bastards.

 

[axisofevil]

^^^ Is this guy serious?!!?? What planet does he live in??!

This is just the IAF top brass trying to get MoD to pull their fingers out for MMRCA and other AF procurements currently stuck on the desks of MoD beauracrats (Attack Helo (Apache), Heavy lift helo (Chinook), Naval helo (MH-60R), LUH (A3550), Super heavy lift cargo plane (C-17) etc).

Let's be honest the IAF has more than enough resources both in quantity, quality and resources (funds) available- the MKI is un-matched in the skies of Asia (and most of the world). Along with the UPG M2k and Mig 29 which would give any plane in PAFs inventory a good fight let alone the Bison which is a formidable beast (ask USAF). Add into the equation the Phalcon - the world's most advanced AWACS (note MKIs can act as "mini" AWACS amongst themselves) and IL 78 MKI refuellers (note MKIs can use "buddy" refuelling to extend their range) then the PAF is well and truly beaten. This is not taking into account UPG Jaguars and Mig 27.

Now if your still not convinced note future acquisitions of the IAF: 22 (although most people expect the number to increase to 40-70 units) Apache Block III (the most advanced attack Helo in the world), 15 Chinooks (again number most likely to increase), 250-300 PAK-FA/FGFA 5th Gen fighters, 200+ UCAVs, 10 (20+ is a figure floating around) C-17 strategic air lifters, 170+ LCH, 126 ( deal is almost certain to increase -especially after this fear mongering- to 200-260 units) EFT, Rafele,SH are front runners, 150+ LCA (maybe more and MK2 is going to be MUCH more powerful!)
There's probably more....

This is before you take into account IN ACC (45 Mig 29k, 50-100 N-LCA, 75+ N-MMRCA (NEFT, N-Gripen, SH,Rafel-M)) operating off upto 3 ACC by 2020. It's more than likely the IN air arm could take on the ENTIRE PAF by 2020 on its own.

Right now in 2011 the IAF's budget is 4-5 times more than Pakistan's ENTIRE defence budget! And with a healthy 8-11% economic growth rate the gap is only going to increase (especially given India's defence budget is a much smaller proportion of its GDP than Pakistan's). So come on, do you really think a country comparable in defence spending with BELGUIM can compare with a country comparable with FRANCE/GERMANY (and more in the future)?

It doesn;t matter mate.... You gotta respect pakistan for one thing it makes the most out of its tiny budget. It invests in tech deemed as force multipliers that place a leverage on their defense. We need to sit up and take note. It this mentality that we think we are better without even actually observing and taking the time to learn and study plans and acquisitions that makes my blood boil....We are idiots to assume we are better.....We are morons for not thinking out of the box...MKI's are great and all but CHina has similar birds and can easily give PaF countermeasures or even let them take a good close look of their MK's. Sure it's a little different but every opportunity is an advantage....while we twiddle our thumbs in mindless self congratulatory remarks...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

mei tumhe pata deta hu india ki pandubbbi arihant ka.....chura lo.. hehehe

Wats a pandubbi?

---------- Post added at 07:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 AM ----------

^^^ Exactly, what has PAF got in its inventory that can beat a MKI? answer- nothing!!

Let's be honest the IAF has more than enough resources both in quantity, quality and resources (funds) available

It has the resources.... but depends how u play it....Look at ur deals n progs still nowhere near completion.

-

the MKI is un-matched in the skies of Asia (and most of the world). Along with the UPG M2k and Mig 29 which would give any plane in PAFs inventory a good fight

Over confidence kills..... F-16s,Advanced JF-17s--including stealthy blocks,FC-20 and probably J-20 or F-35(in the long run).

let alone the Bison which is a formidable beast (ask USAF).

Wats the ratio of crashes? ask IAF.


P.S=Not sure when USAF got involved... it wasnt there at the red flag.

Add into the equation the Phalcon - the world's most advanced AWACS

I doubt it....... Plus how many of them do u have and how big is ur territory?Against 8+ PAF awacs.

(note MKIs can act as "mini" AWACS amongst themselves)

Do they miraculous blind other AWACS n radars?

and IL 78 MKI refuellers (note MKIs can use "buddy" refuelling to extend their range) then the PAF is well and truly beaten.

Magical tanker i presume.

This is not taking into account UPG Jaguars and Mig 27.

Obsolete.

Now if your still not convinced note future acquisitions of the IAF: 22 (although most people expect the number to increase to 40-70 units) Apache Block III (the most advanced attack Helo in the world),

Love the predictions n over exaggerations.

15 Chinooks (again number most likely to increase),

Been hearing abt those 15 helis since 2007.Yet there is not even a deal finalised.........Ans ur talking about future.

250-300 PAK-FA/FGFA 5th Gen fighters,

It is 200-250 jet.... not 250-300......and tht years ahead..... not till 2020....PAF will also field a 5th gen fighter by tht time.

200+ UCAVs,

LOL again over exaggerations.......Which UCAV???????????? aura? thts on drawing board....and ur have 200 on order already?

Dnt worry we just ordered CH-3 UCAV and have Burraq under development.

10 (20+ is a figure floating around) C-17 strategic air lifters

Yeah floating around...... These r real offensive weapons.

170+ LCH,

Over exaggerations again!!!!!!!!!!!!! as of now only 65 are on order...... i dnt know if u have even started its final manufacturing.

We will induct T-129s with joint production....... and get Super cobras............

P.S=Helis have no importance against jets......Armies fly them.

126 ( deal is almost certain to increase -especially after this fear mongering- to 200-260 units) EFT, Rafele,SH are front runners,

Dude first but the 126...... we have been hearing abt them since a decade now........And the first would reach after 2015...if u finalise them even today...

We will fielf FC-20s against them.

150+ LCA (maybe more and MK2 is going to be MUCH more powerful!)

Where the the 1st LCA?.....lol at future.........we already have a new stealthy block in the pipeline.

This is before you take into account IN ACC (45 Mig 29k, 50-100 N-LCA, 75+ N-MMRCA (NEFT, N-Gripen, SH,Rafel-M)) operating off upto 3 ACC by 2020. It's more than likely the IN air arm could take on the ENTIRE PAF by 2020 on its own.

Okay.. lol

Right now in 2011 the IAF's budget is 4-5 times more than Pakistan's ENTIRE defence budget! And with a healthy 8-11% economic growth rate the gap is only going to increase (especially given India's defence budget is a much smaller proportion of its GDP than Pakistan's). So come on, do you really think a country comparable in defence spending with BELGUIM can compare with a country comparable with FRANCE/GERMANY??

Thts cool......

 

[axisofevil]

I hope same. Let MRCA die for 2 more years. Amen.

Shakti wake up ...your complaints fall on deaf ears. Let me point out why.....the extra 10 billion dollars that could be pumped into out defense R&D could easily be attained if we kept a stricter watch on corruption that permeates the country. Remember one example Koda....or Fodder Scam or take your pick of the endless choices. We need these new weapons to keep the forces aware of each and every capability by exploiting it in our arsenal. LCA, Arjun, etc are greatly needed and I support them, but they need to be top notch and their continuous improvement needs to be pushed .....while we arm ourselves with the best. We lack really vision in our military and defense research....why aren;t we developing mini subs with superior capabilities yet? Why aren;t we emphasizing more development in deep sea rescue which could lead to more innovations in the future. ........why did it have to take so long to realize that we need to establish a radar defense around every inch of our borders or that we should arm kashmir and vital installations with the latest S400's or S-500's? Come on bro.....this should been in place 3 decades ago. Wtf was our military thinking then? Huh? Wake up and smell the Chai.....

 

[Pfpilot]

The PAF has done well with limited resources. With a relatively small area to defend, it makes no sense to compare the airforces on a one on one basis. We are talking about a majority of engagements taking place within or near the Pakistani border, we have the assets to defend the nation, and will operate in a friendly environment with an awacs and SAM network. We don't need to take out 200 su-mkis, we just need to deny them air superiority within our territory, virtually eliminating any Indian advancement deep into Pakistani territory. For that role, jf-17s and f-16s are more than enough, we don't need overly long range radars, because we have AWACs for that and we don't need a plane with a massive payload because these planes will operate close to their bases.
Completely illogical to compare the two forces...The IAF is an awesome force, but ours provides us with a comprehensive defense, which is exactly what we need. If we were India, then the current PAF would not suffice, but we are 1/3 the size.

 

[angeldemon_007]

why did it have to take so long to realize that we need to establish a radar defense around every inch of our borders or that we should arm kashmir and vital installations with the latest S400's or S-500's?

Because S400 or S500 were not there 3 decades ago....and these batteries of BMD are too expensive, we cannot cover each and every inch of our country with BMD....but i think you meant normal SAMS and i there must be some SAM batteries in J&K.....Apart from this new SAMS are being inducted like Akash (5.2 billion$), Spyder by both IAF and IA and new SAMS are coming like MAETRI and BArak 2 and akash 2 and recently a new RFI was also issued for MRSAM....not to mention the huge order for brahmos worth billions of $ which is most likely to be placed closed to the borders....India is also looking to purchase BMD for US or Russia or Israel.....there is plan to develop a whole THAAD like infrastructure, so i think in a 3-4 of years the situation in atleast this field will drastically change....

 

[lkozhi]

if we had taken this decision 10 years back we would be sitting with 10 year old planes

 

[rajusri]

Google uncle tells me IAF has over 142 Su-30MKI alone as of now. Is not this bragging from Aroor?

 

[Shinigami]

Eurofigher is also a air superiority fighter . Get your facts right

MKI is only lack in radar with Rafale but in dog fight my pick is still MKI

you fanboys disgust me.

have u seen an MKI move? I went to aero india 2011. each time it does a stunt, it loses altitude.

trust me F16 can beat MKI in a dogfight any day

 

[Shinigami]

With what ?



What are these multipliers exactly that cancel out the MKI's radar range. Are you implying meeting a SU-30MKI with multiple aircraft at once would neutralize its advantages somehow ? It would just shoot all of them down. Then turn around and leave.

DO i need to remind some people here that at its induction the SU-30MKI was one of the most advanced aircraft in the world ? That was on 04 it is still a very capable aircraft now. Underestimating it wouldn't be a wise choice. Objective thinking would entitle this.

SU30mki is a truck that loses altitude evrytime it turns, and its got a huge a$$(radar Cross section). otherwise its great

 

[lepziboy]

Google uncle tells me IAF has over 142 Su-30MKI alone as of now. Is not this bragging from Aroor?

I don`t know why but I think its not enough especially considering china.I dont want any flames from this comment just saying

 

[rajusri]

I don`t know why but I think its not enough especially considering china.I dont want any flames from this comment just saying

Aroor is talking about Pakistan not China. India-China relation is not that bad.