IAF losing edge over PAF:Military Intelligence.

[tanlixiang28776]

Blain.

I agree with your comment/asessement re F16 & SU30MKI being not to far apart in overall capability.

BUT the big advantage is the huge numerical advantage of 250+ su30mki versis 70+ F16 BLOC52/MLU.

THE OTHER ADVANTAGE is the shear nos of missles ie 8-12 on su30mki versis 4-6 on f16

MKI has 12 hardpoints and the F 16 11. Not a huge difference.

 

[Silk]

If you read about the spare parts problems of the MKI alone you would have said something else. Just count the trips of the MKI engines to Russia. Just remember the landing-wheels problem. Surely MKI is a lot more modern then the one it is replacing but is it as effective at this moment? I don't think so. You have the same problem as Pakistan with the producers. That is why Pakistan has gradually moving away form the USA and now is hitting with full force the production of JF17. Something the Indians tried with Tejas but failed.

Surely the Indians are something. But I doubt they have the easy hands down airforce. Every battle will be tough. And with the overwhelming qaulity and quantity ratio in the past they had stills serious though battles with PAF. What will happen if that becomes a lot more tougher?

 

[Storm Force]

F16 DONT CARRY 12 MISSLES EVER

REGARDLESS OF 11 HARDPOINTS

 

[sancho]

Performance in what sense? If it has TVC, it also has to contend with huge size and earlier detection as well as greater logistical challenges and more limited MTBO/MTBF characteristics compared to simpler, non-TVC engines. It has a huge radar, but the F-16 has a much smaller RCS and very effective jamming capabilities. In my view, the F-16 is a better integrated MR platform. MKI is better for long range strike due to fuel and ordnance capacity, so there are pluses and minuses here that need to be considered. The MKI is considered by many who fly the Sukhoi as the most potent Su-30 because it has some western components which supposedly are considered better than the Russian alternates. The F-16s on the whole are a better put together package in my opinion.

What do you mean by better integrated and put together?

MKI has 12 hardpoints and the F 16 11. Not a huge difference.

On paper, in reality the Flankers can carry 12 AAMs, the F16 only 8, more likely are even 6. The points you have to take to account here is, that the centerline stations are not meant for AAMs and that it has to carry external fuel tanks as well. Here is a UAE F16 Block 60 in long endurance air policing role over Libya with CFTs, 2 external fuel tanks and 6 AAMs:

 

[tanlixiang28776]

8 is maximum but is rarely seen.

 

[MilSpec]

If you read about the spare parts problems of the MKI alone you would have said something else. Just count the trips of the MKI engines to Russia. Just remember the landing-wheels problem. Surely MKI is a lot more modern then the one it is replacing but is it as effective at this moment? I don't think so. You have the same problem as Pakistan with the producers. That is why Pakistan has gradually moving away form the USA and now is hitting with full force the production of JF17. Something the Indians tried with Tejas but failed.

Surely the Indians are something. But I doubt they have the easy hands down airforce. Every battle will be tough. And with the overwhelming qaulity and quantity ratio in the past they had stills serious though battles with PAF. What will happen if that becomes a lot more tougher?

First MKI's potency is immense..I have worked in HAL and I know this for a fact how important platform it is for the IAF.

As far as spare parts are concerned these problems are inevitable when you manufacture aircrafts.

License Production and indigenousness productions are two different things. You are license producing jf17 now, we have been doing the same since 3 decades, so please do not compare tejas and Jf17.

So your statement about failing with tejas and you succeeding with jf17 is ridiculous, this is the first a/c you have licensed manufactured .. we have done the same with Gnats, Mig 21's, mig 23's mig 27's, Jaguar SEPECATS, and the MKI.... so please do not boast about producing jf17

 

[Rafi]

we are joint producers of JF17, and it is a success and not like tejas.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

we are joint producers of JF17, and it is a success and not like tejas.

When they have nothing left to say....... they start trolling... n derailing the threads.......... thts how they are... ignore em.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

15 Years ago IAF had 39.5 sqds or around 740 combat planes

From these nearly 500 where MIG21 & MIG23/MIG27 fighters (in other words obselete even in 1996)

TODAY IAF has fallen to around 32-33 sqds and we hear great noise of shrinking IAF VERSIS PAF capability.

BUT THIS IS NOT SO SIMPLE.

The lost sqds are IAF obselete fighters NOT ITS front line fighters of the 4th generation.

yes the IAF have scrapped all MIG23 & all but 120 mig21 bisons BUT look wat has arrived in its place.

ITS A SMALLER FORCE but with 4 times the PUNCH of 39SQDS...

su30mki is not invincible but it was designed to take on and defeat F16 & F15 LEGACY FIGHTERS.

PAF was in dire straits during KARGIL not a single BVR capable plane TODAY they have over 80 and AWACS to boot.

BUT in pure modern fighters IAF out numbers PAF by 3-1 ie around 250 su30mki.mig29/smt/k mirage2000 versis 80 f16/jf17.

I DON,T THINK THE INDIANS ARE THAT UNPREPARED as they are shouting to their govt/ministry of defense.

Ur post is bullshyt as usual......but wanted to correct u abt us having 73 F-16s blk52+.... n 2 sqd of JFT thts 40+... not to forget the upcomin stealthy babies with AESA, low rcs, more stealh n advanced avionics...... n more F-16s n FC-20s.

 

[Ammyy]

Ur post is bullshyt as usual......but wanted to correct u abt us having 73 F-16s blk52+.

I thought you have only 18 or you start production in your country ???

If talking about MLU upgrade so they will just gonna reach to block 30 level

... n 2 sqd of JFT thts 40+...

those need to be upgrade very badly

not to forget the upcomin stealthy babies with AESA, low rcs, more stealh n advanced avionics.....

first lets China make these stuffs stelthy baby with AESA WTF

. n more F-16s n FC-20s.

more F16s ohh second hand ???

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I thought you have only 18 or you start production in your country ???

Uncle drdo we started it long time ago..

If talking about MLU upgrade so they will just gonna reach to block 30 level

With MLU STAR kits they would reach blk 52 standard not 30... use google.... its worth it.

those need to be upgrade very badly

Not really.... they can kick some mig,mirage as*

first lets China make these stuffs stelthy baby with AESA WTF

WTF...... hahha... its already underdevelopment...... believe me... it will come before super shikty LCA ..or the super duper mk2

more F16s ohh second hand ???

18 new ones and rest might be the ones embargoed........U dnt worry.. they would be all teaked to kick some mki azz.


And thts a promise.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Source - The Deadly Charmers - Air Forces Monthly

The Typhoons only showed up one day for the photo op and flew in formation with the participants.

What is your point? Why are you trying so hard to prove.something so pilotless? Because in the most RECENT ex in Oct 2010 held in India the RAF DID bring the EDT aswell as VC-10 and E-3 AWACS. S are you saying the RAF didn't allow the EFT to fly against MKI again?

The final phase of Indo-UK Air Exercise Indradhanush began today i.e. on 28 Oct 2010 at AF Station Kalaikunda with increased number of launches and full scale Large Force Engagement (LFE) missions. So far over 120 missions of the exercise have already been flown successfully achieving the mission objectives.

Ex Indradhanush joint air exercise between The IAF and RAF (Royal Air Force) began on 18 Oct 2010 at Kalaikunda Airbase in West Midnapur district, West Bengal . The flying missions commenced on 20 Oct, with aim to enhance mutual operational understanding and refine the procedures. The RAF is participating with its Eurofighters, VC-10 mid air refuellers and E 3 D Sentry Airborne Early warnings and control systems (AWACS). The IAF on the other hand has fielded the SU 30s, Mirage 2000s, Mig-27s and the newly acquired AWACS which are taking part in a Joint exercise for the first time.

In the final phase of the exercise a large number of aircraft in offensive and defensive roles are expected to be launched in ‘Waves’ in a limited airspace. The AWACS of both the air forces would also be launched, and with large no of aircraft in a limited airspace the skills of both fighter pilots and the controllers would be put to test. Thus the extent of difficulty would be a few notches up than the previous phases of Ex Indrdhanush.

The High value Air Asset (HVAA) protection missions would also be carried out simultaneously drawing a large number of aircraft of participating forces together, increasing the challenge further more. The exercise Indradhanush 2010 would conclude on 03 Nov 2010.

http://*****************/final-phas...dhanush-begins-over-120-missions-flown-so-far


And what's it to you whiter MKI and EFT went 1 v1 against each other? The PAF will NEVER have either a/c so how does it concern you?

 

[Ammyy]

Uncle drdo we started it long time ago..

Chahchajan when you made a single nut bolt for F16 ???

Not really.... they can kick some mig,mirage as*

thts why initially only 50 ordered

With MLU STAR kits they would reach blk 52 standard not 30... use google.... its worth it.

source for that ???

WTF...... hahha... its already underdevelopment...... believe me... it will come before super shikty LCA ..or the super duper mk2

I know you can make it tomorrow but like your present J17 it worth nothing. Even developer dnt want this low quality low price plane

18 new ones and rest might be the ones embargoed........U dnt worry.. they would be all teaked to kick some mki azz.
And thts a promise.

Our MKIs waiting for that

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Chahchajan when you made a single nut bolt for F16 ???

Uncle im not old yaar..

P.S=U asked abt JFT not F-16...i think ur memory is it well..

thts why initially only 50 ordered

Yes
Initial | Define Initial at Dictionary.com

source for that ???

Should read more:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...6-mlu-specifications-36-blk-52-prospects.html

I know you can make it tomorrow but like your present J17 it worth nothing. Even developer dnt want this low quality low price plane

U know better.... armchair generals usually do....... lol did russia induct su-30s in their af..? no... i guess ur logic is correct..

Our MKIs waiting for that

Just like gnats vs Sabres.

 

[Ammyy]

Uncle im not old yaar..

Then Chchajan how you guess my age???

P.S=U asked abt JFT not F-16...i think ur memory is it well..

from my previous post

I thought you have only 18 or you start production in your country ???

and thats your post which was quoted

but wanted to correct u abt us having 73 F-16s blk52+.

short term memory loss

Yes
Initial | Define Initial at Dictionary.com

I think almost 40 completed by now no further order for current version

Should read more:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...6-mlu-specifications-36-blk-52-prospects.html

there are no improvements to the Block 15s mission range and loiter time;
there are no engine improvements; and,
there are no improvements to payload capacity

It has other things that come with blk 52 like APG-68v9 radar, JHMCS, JDAM, AGM-84 Harpoon capability, etc

U know better.... armchair generals usually do....... lol did russia induct su-30s in their af..? no... i guess ur logic is correct..

I thought you miss some thing
Sukhoi Su-30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I am sure you can read that