IAF kicks off contest to make single-engine fighters in India

[ghauri05]

As the Indians are buying all kind of weapons...I think PAF is sleeping...I mean RAFAEL was under discussion for mre than a decade...and our leaders didn't take any decision....everyone feels the need of a heavy fighter in our fleet...but PAF has not made any serious effort in this regard...This lethargy, lack of motivation or whatever it is...it might cost Pak in the long run.

 

[nang2]

As the Indians are buying all kind of weapons...I think PAF is sleeping...I mean RAFAEL was under discussion for mre than a decade...and our leaders didn't take any decision....everyone feels the need of a heavy fighter in our fleet...but PAF has not made any serious effort in this regard...This lethargy, lack of motivation or whatever it is...it might cost Pak in the long run.

it is not PAF that is sleeping. It is Pakistan's economy. Of course, only comparatively with Indian economy. In early 80's, China had to suppress her military ambitions, simply because her economy was very weak then.

 

[ssethii]

RIP, Teja Bhai.

 

[ghauri05]

it is not PAF that is sleeping. It is Pakistan's economy. Of course, only comparatively with Indian economy. In early 80's, China had to suppress her military ambitions, simply because her economy was very weak then.

But there must be some planning..some way forward....and there is no decision making visible.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

As the Indians are buying all kind of weapons...I think PAF is sleeping...I mean RAFAEL was under discussion for mre than a decade...and our leaders didn't take any decision....everyone feels the need of a heavy fighter in our fleet...but PAF has not made any serious effort in this regard...This lethargy, lack of motivation or whatever it is...it might cost Pak in the long run.

It's the lack of money- not lack of motivation.

It's the lack of money- not lack of motivation.

 

[Ali Zadi]

But there must be some planning..some way forward....and there is no decision making visible.

Advanced JF-17 and maybe 2nd hand F16's

 

[spectribution]

Tejas is more of a pet project for India. The RFI looks for joint development meaning Tejas offshoots than a rafale type deal.

It took 10yrs from tender to signing of Rafale.Helpfully delayed by @sshole A.K.Anthony. IAF is not stupid enough to get into another drama.

It's more for collaboration than buy off the shelf. If that had been the case India would have bough entire F 16 production line.

Just imagine PAF nightmare when they run out of spares during war and do negotiations with HAL.

Advanced JF-17 and maybe 2nd hand F16's

JF 17 has trouble standing up to Tejas. JF 17 blk iii is aimed at some sliver of parity.

Funny business.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

As the Indians are buying all kind of weapons...I think PAF is sleeping...I mean RAFAEL was under discussion for mre than a decade...and our leaders didn't take any decision....everyone feels the need of a heavy fighter in our fleet...but PAF has not made any serious effort in this regard...This lethargy, lack of motivation or whatever it is...it might cost Pak in the long run.

Rafale was evaluated but didn't proceed due to some reasons ( i wouldn't dig that) but joint development of FC-1 was one of it.

RIP, Teja Bhai.

Tejas*

JF 17 has trouble standing up to Tejas. JF 17 blk iii is aimed at some sliver of parity.

Funny business.

Maybe, but due to the nature of modern netcentric warfare "superior" tejas is hardly going to make a difference.

 

[Ali Zadi]

Maybe, but due to the nature of modern netcentric warfare "superior" tejas is hardly going to make a difference.

Actually the nature of beyond-visual-range missile makes all the difference since Tejas has superior suit and has the ability to co-perform to the lvl of said missile it stands better to the JF-17.

Not saying that JF-17 is not BVR compatible but simply that given the better building blocks for the Tejas suit it might be better suited to handle a higher range BVR than the JF-17.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Just imagine PAF nightmare when they run out of spares during war and do negotiations with HAL.

The difference between the MMRCA and this one is I think they can choose who they want to partner with. L.M. said they'll partner, or lean towards TATA, due to their effective partnership with them.

If TATA gets this contract, they will produce Airbus's C295 and a single engined fighter. Effectively making them a aerospace giant in India.

ADA might even leverage this in their future programs like AMCA.

“Naturally we would gravitate to Tata," George Standridge, Lockheed Martin’s vice president for Aeronautics Strategy and Business Development, said in an interview in New Delhi on Wednesday when asked about production of F-16s. “We know them well and we have worked with them well."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...a-as-f-16-partner-for-next-big-india-jet-deal

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Actually the nature of beyond-visual-range missile makes all the difference since Tejas has superior suit and has the ability to co-perform to the lvl of said missile it stands better to the JF-17.

Not saying that JF-17 is not BVR compatible but simply that given the better building blocks for the Tejas suit it might be better suited to handle a higher range BVR than the JF-17.

Fighter platforms don't act alone, they are a part of much larger information web, in that case PAF has chinese AWACS and other assets, in any future conflict the majority of airwars is going to be in Pakistans airspace, so we know whats coming and tejas isn't going to make a difference,

Think of JF17s as pack of wolfs not not a mighty lion.


PS i aware IAF has other "potent" platforms for strike roles so my post is purely hypothetical.

Have a good evening

 

[GoodKnight]

The difference between the MMRCA and this one is I think they can choose who they want to partner with. L.M. said they'll partner, or lean towards TATA, due to their effective partnership with them.

If TATA gets this contract, they will produce Airbus's C295 and a single engined fighter. Effectively making them a aerospace giant in India.

ADA might even leverage this in their future programs like AMCA

This will be better than the MMRCA because India will be looking at 100% offset, i.e. the aircraft to be completely Made in India.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

But you think big Indian defence players like Tata, Reliance and Mahindra have the wherewithal to support this kind of a programme by the Gripen?

Well to a certain extent they have. But we have to play the key role because we know the product and how it works. But they are quick learners.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/logistics/economy/article9198612.ece

Regarding Gripen's possible partners above.

Honestly, in a perfect world. I would like to see Rafale off the shelf, then MII, but the MII doesnt seem to be happening.

If another defence aerospace production agency(other than just HAL) is created through this, I dont care, make it happen.

It's going to be very interesting who the local partners are. TATA, Reliance I think will want the opportunity. Mahindra, we'll see if they want to.

Mahindra, at the moment is bidding for the production of various Airbus helicopters. They also have their own plants in India and Australia production small planes which they gained through a buy out of an Australian company.

Reliance, has nothing on the ground, but various tie ups. Including with Antonov to produce their cargo, civ planes in India.

TATA, obviously have things on the ground and pipeline.

All three are trying to be aerospace giants.

 

[ghauri05]

Advanced JF-17 and maybe 2nd hand F16's

For JF-17, yes you can say...but stuck on F-16 is not a way forward..PAF should have planned for a heavy fighter induction in the 2000-2010 period.
As far as Jf-17 is concerned, yes it has provided with knowledge of designing an aircraft...but it is still away from J-10..if jf-17 blk 3's fate is to be equivalent to J-10(in electronics n radar aspects)....then decision invites a lot of criticism..that if we had directly gone for J-10 with ToT under licensed production in Pak..then we will be building a medium range aircraft than a light weight..with better payload and range..n still enjoying all the benefits which jf-17 offers....many members on this forum say we had to set up an entire new system for their induction so what..we did it for jf-17...today we have some 60-70 jf-17 n 70+ F-16s..just replace those jf-17 numbers with j-10 n imagine what a force that would have been...But PAF's ego has blinded their judgement.

 

[Ali Zadi]

Think of JF17s as pack of wolfs not not a mighty lion.

Ahh but I was talking about Tejas vs JF-17 on a complete level playing field. The JF-17 certainly has its up's also but for the technical bit it has certainly taken a beating.

Honestly, in a perfect world. I would like to see Rafale off the shelf, then MII, but the MII doesnt seem to be happening.

All signs point to yes its happening, lets just say the OEM is still hungry.

For JF-17, .

Ohh yes since you mentioned the J10's, pak is suppose to buy some of them which might come sooner because of India and Rafale deal.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/940080/pakistan-may-be-first-buyer-of-chinas-j-10-fighter-jets-expert/