IAF cut orders for 5th Gen FGFA by Half, down to only 65 aircrafts

[rockstarIN]

absolutely lack of planning. what the hell is going on. Yes IAF will get alot of goodies but price at which they are getting stuff is tremendously high due to stupid inefficient policy..
with money they are spending they would have gotten alot more

Rather it is more pragmatic provided complications in R&D contract. It is better to get the PAK FAs first then do R&D in consultations with Russians as well as other partners just like MKI

 

[Indian Patriot]

The Rafale deal will not tip the balance of power in the region and neither the T-50s. Squardrons need to be cut down. A threat of a air war against Pakistan wouldn't change the balance. Neither will China's fighters, or its J20s. The real problem is air denial against the USN and Diego Garcia. Indian focus should be on Naval power and air/sea denial via missiles, and maritime air power.

Yes 126 Rafales would definitely have tipped the balance in India's favor even against China. And if you think a 5th gen fighter will not help India's cause then you have much to learn. The world is moving towards 5th gen. IAF has time and again stated they are in dire need of more squadrons, so your claims of squadrons need to be cut down is baseless.

And you got a death wish? Why would India want to fight USA and end up like Iraq? USA and India are working towards building up a global partnership and you want a war against USA of all countries.

 

[MilSpec]

If both Rafale and Pak Fa are both signed, who will deliver first?

Pak Fa mass production not started yet..
Rafale, Egypt and Qatar orders are ahead of us..

i dont think we can pay for both at the same time

Armaments for Pak fA internal weapons bay will be all new , so it will also cost a lot.. we cant integrate missiles and bombs that are already in our inventory ..

rough calculation

Rafale 36 = 6 billions
Pak fa 65 = 8 billions

then weapons on both = ? 5 billions $ ?

You wont have to pay billions upfront, Capex acquisitions are yearly payment. And there is this entirely different process that takes over when Forex remittances are made, which I don't have a clue off. With Russia process has it's own nuances.....

 

[Indian Patriot]

This deal will put now some real pressure on dassault

It is the GOI backing down. Dassault is a private company and they will sell to anybody even pakistan if they can make a profit. There is no pressure whatsoever on Dassault. But India will feel the pressure if no modern aircraft is inducted soon.

And we will END up at 350 planes

The cap for Su-30 MKI is 270 planes. There are no 350 MKIs in the making.

 

[Sarjen29]

wow... So can we see pak-fa by 2017-18 ???

 

[Sri]

To me it looks more like
189 Rafales (189- 36) order will be manufactured by consortium led by dassualt --> IAF knows its capability and wants to have this in its inventory ASAP. ( Prasun is saying this as well)
65 Pakfa, the ones which are manufactured similar to RuAF with minor tweaks. ( these will be anyway better than SU30MKI/SU35)
65 FGFA --> if HAL/DRDO are able to bring some extra capabilities to table else 65 more PAKFAs.

What I understand is the cost of Rafales will remain same (similar to the ones delivered from France) therefore India can afford the 189 Which would have been the cost if HAL was manufacturing 126 of these birds.
Do the gurus agree?

 

[Last Samuri]

I think 65 PAK FA for immdiate delivery is to replace the MMRCA

FGFA will evolve from PAK FA just like SU30K evolved to MKI

 

[forcetrip]

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[Sarjen29]

I think 65 PAK FA for immdiate delivery is to replace the MMRCA

FGFA will evolve from PAK FA just like SU30K evolved to MKI

No Pak-Fa can't replace MMRACA... I think they reduced the order and looking to buy immediately because of the delivery concerns of Rafale, Dassult can only manufacture aout 12 jets, they've to fulfill the needs of other 2 customers who already made a deal..

 

[Not So Good]

Indeed not !!
You better give up to Pakistan

Never

 

[Abingdonboy]

Looking to cut costs and prune military imports, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has halved its demand for Russian-built fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA).It now wants just three squadrons of the fighter jets which are to be inducted into the Russian Air Force in 2016.

Sources say the IAF has scaled down its needs and now indicated that just three squadrons (around 18 planes in each), besides a few more for training of the pilots, will be enough for now. This works out to be 65 planes, almost half from the earlier projection of 127 FGFAs to be jointly designed and produced by India and Russia.The T-50 has been built for the Russians under the PAK-FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) programme for the fifth generation fighter aircraft.

A plane will cost $100 million (Rs 650 crore). Three squadrons are the projection of an off-the-shelf deal India is pressing its military ally for immediate delivery of the planes.New Delhi has suggested to Moscow that the T-50 fighter jet can be supplied to the IAF, while the research to improve upon the aircraft can carry on simultaneously. The Tribune had first reported about India’s offer on February 24 this year.

Simultaneously, the IAF is also working on a $11 billion R&D contract for long-term development of the jet. It is pending ratification since 2013. In a written reply to the Rajya Sabha on August 4, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said the preliminary design stage of the fifth generation fighter aircraft programme completed in June 2013.

“The expenditure incurred so far is Rs 1,483.15 crore,” Parrikar said. The next stage of development of the fifth generation fighter aircraft will commence after signing of the R&D contract.The problem is in case India opts for the R&D contract route, the deliveries are envisaged to commence 94 months – eight years. The next best option is to go for an immediate off-the-shelf purchase and in case the research-and-development contract works out, more jets can be produced here.

With a dwindling fleet of fighter jets, this wait is not an option for the IAF, said sources. By the end of this year, the IAF would be at its lowest combat strength in more than a decade. It will be down to 32 squadrons by the end of this year and in the middle of a predicted shortage.

In a nutshell, the IAF with 576 fighter jets will be well short of the 750-strong fighter jet fleet mandated by a government sanction to wage a simultaneous two-front war with Pakistan and China.The pruning down of numbers has been done as the IAF is backing its own options of getting French-origin Rafale jets and the remaining batch of 72 Sukhoi-30 MKI jets from Russia, sources say.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his visit to France in April this year announced the intent to get 36 Rafale jets. A cost negotiation committee is in talks with the French company and the numbers could go beyond the announced 36 as the IAF has projected a demand for 80 Rafale-type planes.

IAF cut orders for 5th Gen FGFA by Half, down to only 65 aircrafts | idrw.org

If anyone believes that India, the fastest growing economy in the world right now that will be a $5 TRILLION USD economy by the time the first lots of FGFA start arriving, will be ordering just 65 FGFAs- a plane that is intended to replace the 300+ IAF MKIs, they are being beyond stupid.


IDRW at it again.....

Most likely these will be similar to 50 off the SU30K's that were imported initially, and subsequently MKI'ised.

One correction here sir, as far as I know those original Ks weren't "MKI'ised" but returned to Russia once the MKI was fully developed and in production.

 

[Cornered Tiger]

I suggest Indian Air Force to forget Rafale and take 65 FGFA first and than further more PAK-FAs. Indian Air Force just dont need Rafales. They have Multi-role Mirage 2000-5s and Mig-29Us, Air Superiority Su-30Mkis what else needed is a fifth generation fighter and nothing more. Infact they should invest heavily on Tejas instead of Rafales. For me Rafale does not suites the IAF requirements ... Just keep it simple as u could.

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

Are u funking kidding ? 36 rafale cost the same . It's 5th gen fighter and now we will get 1st one by 2017-18 ...Same time Chinese will get J20. Good move . Layer we can upgrade them with fGFA spec.

Thats one hell of a cost, even 65 of them comes to $6.5 billion. Does it include operating and maintenance cost if not how much will that come to?

 

[MilSpec]

One correction here sir, as far as I know those original Ks weren't "MKI'ised" but returned to Russia once the MKI was fully developed and in production.

yupp, I meant the rest of the units after the K's were imported were

 

[Luca1]

This show that Indian gov has no confidence inIndias ability to negotiate a good joint venture deal. India will buy the plane off the shelf or knocked down kits. Fifa will just be minimal substitutes of certain sub components . Fgfa will be as unique to PAKFA as MKI is to su-30.