IAF backs down on Indo-UK exercise 'claims'

[WaLeEdK2]

RAF Eurofighter Typhoons 'beaten by Pakistani F-16s'-RAF Eurofighter Typhoons 'beaten by Pakistani F-16s' • The Register

Before barking check your facts it may save yourself the embarrassment, unlike the embarrassment that followed your chest pounding 12-0 claim

Imagine what are blk 52s could do. Furthermore, blk 3 jf-17s will have new engines, Aesa radar etc. We should send the JF-17 to the next Anatolian Eagle.

 

[Star Wars]

lol Pakistanis chest thumping their with their F-16s in this thread, how very Ironic

 

[Chanakyaa]

So all the chest thumping on 12-0 victory just turned out to be the cricket score.

By Whom ? Media ?

 

[Windjammer]

Air Forces Monthly - January 2007
The MoD said it would not be putting Typhoons up against the Indian Airforce Su-30s as a one on one fight. However, it did happen and there is HUD video to prove it. Apparently two inexperienced Typhoon pilots returned with big grins on their faces, the Su-30s were toasted, all the Su-30's air display antics amounted to nothing, the Typhoons proved too nimble and too powerful for the Russian aircraft. The Typhoons were also not clean configured.

'British Typhoons whacked India's Sukhois in joint exercises' | TwoCircles.net

This is what happened in the two previous exercises, so from being whacked repeatedly, the SU-30 suddenly becomes outright winner.... can only happen by Indian psyche.

 

[ito]

This seem more diplomatic than the truth.

The truth is IAF won against RAF. And this should not surprise at all given that most European countries are cutting defense expenditures.

 

[abdulbarijan]

What's funny is the Indian obsession with "results" -- trying to convince "people" how mighty the IAF is and ofcourse with special reference to the Might of MKI ..

First off, no one knows what ROE (rules of engagement) were in place, and if they were anything like those of Cope India's (04/05) then it's best to just leave it at that ... and let our Indian friends enjoy their 12-0 "whitewash" ... BTW this report practically has IAF admitting that the ROE were in favor of the IAF ...

It seems like every international exercise the IAF goes to, tall claims are made either by pilots or the reporters who cite the pilots --- but then again -- when things happen, like the video leaks in 08 of a colonel serving in the USAF talking about how great the MKI is in ACTUAL COMBAT, or you get to see reports of how the MKI fared against the EF-2000, where airforce monthly has references to it ... you can pretty much see what the reality of the situation is .... and this is a problem for the IAF -- for when it goes in to real combat and pictures start showing up of MKI wrecks ---

that would serve as a crushing blow to the morale of not only the IAF but also that of the Indian nation, whose been programmed to put the MKI on a pedestal of "the best aircraft after F-22" ...

So provide me these tall claims made by IAF pilots or STFU.
That serving colonel's claims (who, by the way, did NOT participate in Red Flag 08 in any shape or form) have long since been refuted. The very fact he is wrong on even the most basic technical facts (like what engines are on the MKI) says it all really.

Okay .... just look around "12-0" "white wash" -- remember the old " IAF defeated USAF 90% of the time in Gwalior (Cope India's) -- the claims out of Indradhanush in 07 of its performance convincing the RAF of its superiority --- and what happened after that when air force monthly actually busted your bubble of how the Sukhoi "beat the typhoon" -- or how 'superior' the IAF was thanks to the ROE's...

and ofcourse 'the refuters' of that video in 08 that included fanboys and reporters were "participating in the red flag 08" --- take a chill pill -- relax --- and as you so eloquently put --- STFU ..

 

[Stephen Cohen]

An exercise result does NOT cause any heartburn in a government.

Please READ this from the OP

The statement comes a day after the UK officially raised the matter with a senior diplomat bringing it to the notice of his counterpart in Delhi, as was first reported by ET. A nuanced release on the exercise says 'there are no classic wins and losses as no weapons are fired as per their actual capability'.

What this means is that RAF and Eurofighter consortium were embarrased
and they went crying to UK Government who took up the matter DIPLOMATICALLY
with their counter parts in New Delhi

Hence the new nuanced release

 

[Abingdonboy]

The Air Force has backed down on claims over an absolute 'win' during a recent Indo-UK exercise with an official statement arguing that there are no 'wins and losses' during such war games.

NEW DELHI: The Air Force has backed down on claims over an absolute 'win' during a recent Indo-UK exercise with an official statement arguing that there are no 'wins and losses' during such war games. A detailed statement has come from the Air Force on exercise 'Indradhanush' that was held in the UK in July, days after reports surfaced quoting IAF officials that the Indian side had a whitewash victory.

The statement comes a day after the UK officially raised the matter with a senior diplomat bringing it to the notice of his counterpart in Delhi, as was first reported by ET. A nuanced release on the exercise says 'there are no classic wins and losses as no weapons are fired as per their actual capability'.

The Royal Air Force (RAF) has been peeved by Indian reports that IAF Su 30 MKIs had a 12-0 victory over their Typhoons during the exercise. The reports partly quoted the delegation leader of the IAF for the exercise but the victory claims were attributed to unnamed officials.

Official of the RAF have commented strongly on the reports, saying that they were not based on facts and the actual result of the exercise. However, after the official protest by the UK in New Delhi, the IAF statement seeks to correct the image around the exercise, toning down the rhetoric.

"Such exercises are conducted under controlled conditions with mutually agreed weapons performance parameters, with the basic aim of learning from each other's best practices. Additional advantages that accrue are greater understanding of each other's general operational philosophy and exposure to a different operating environment," the release says.
Defence News - Air Force backs down on Indo-UK exercise 'claims'; says no wins and losses

So all the chest thumping on 12-0 victory just turned out to be the cricket score.

What lunacy, how exactly is the IAF backing down from anything? Anyone with even basic comprehension skills could see that no IAF official has made a single claim regarding their, or the RAF's, performance during this exercise. Look at the direct quotes in the NDTV article, all the Grp Cpt said was his men performed well- nothing more, nothing less. He did not qualify these remarks, he did not even remotely make a definitive tally of wins or losses


The IAF's official statement of yesterday is EXACTLY in line with what IAF personnel have said previously, what an absurd spin on it to say they are now backing down.

@Windjammer please provide me the exact quotes from the IAF where they have made any claims other than they performed well in a foreign land, I would love for you to provide me any "cricket score line" from them.



The very fact the RAF are the ones to have openly commented on this exercise and rebut the article so strongly makes me very suspicious and piques my interest immensely- more than any tall claims in the Indian media could do, this is hardly the "quiet confidence" the RAF was, at one time, said to be known for.

It seems like every international exercise the IAF goes to, tall claims are made either by pilots or the reporters who cite the pilots

So provide me these tall claims made by IAF pilots or STFU.

when things happen, like the video leaks in 08 of a colonel serving in the USAF talking about how great the MKI is in ACTUAL COMBAT

That serving colonel's claims (who, by the way, did NOT participate in Red Flag 08 in any shape or form) have long since been refuted. The very fact he is wrong on even the most basic technical facts (like what engines are on the MKI) says it all really.

Please READ this from the OP

The statement comes a day after the UK officially raised the matter with a senior diplomat bringing it to the notice of his counterpart in Delhi, as was first reported by ET. A nuanced release on the exercise says 'there are no classic wins and losses as no weapons are fired as per their actual capability'.

What this means is that RAF and Eurofighter consortium were embarrased
and they went crying to UK Government who took up the matter DIPLOMATICALLY
with their counter parts in New Delhi

Hence the new nuanced release

Well put, this is most telling in my opnion.

The IAF/Indians are bashed immensely for what they are perceived to have said in the aftermath of many exercises but NOT ONCE has India taken this matter to the diplomatic level- not after the unproffesional Red Flag youtube incident and not after the RAF officer's remarks in the aftermath of Indradhunush 07


@MilSpec @Koovie @nair @Capt.Popeye @SpArK @bloo @Stephen Cohen @ito @XiNiX @rockstarIN @Chanakya's_Chant @Hindustani78 @ranjeet @levina @ayesha.a
Isn't it funny that exercise Garuda (with the French) is conducted every year without fail and almost nothing comes out from either side beyond the obligatory PR talk -this is what professionalism looks like (on both sides). As soon as the IAF operates with AFs who are insecure in their own capabilities (RAF) or working to an agenda (USAF- the colonel in those infamous youtube videos was blatantly using that opportunity to push for more F-22s) this is the result.


And yet some idiot will still try and accredit this mess to the IAF. Hopefully they (IAF) are having a good chuckle to themselves back at base.

 

[rockstarIN]

1:10 mentality still prevails.

 

[Abingdonboy]

This is IAF's official statement and quiet rightly too. Last time it was IAF officer's own views commenting about exercise which was not a right way to do

No such inappropriate views were expressed by any IAF officer, check the article again and read the direct quotes attributed to the officer- do not read the spin the journalist has put on the article as a whole.

its old hobby of india

in past we saw red flag propaganda

Please be more specific, what "propaganda" did the IAF put out after Red Flag? I honestly don't remember them stating a thing, all I remember about that exercise was the unprofessional remarks by the USAF colonel that appeared on youtube.

An exercise result does NOT cause any heartburn in a government.

This is usually true, however in this case the UK has taken this to a diplomatic level which is both unusual and intriguing.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

another thread same article same agenda.. more heart burn.. more emotional outbursts..
if the discussion was to continue why not on the original Indradhanush 2015 thread....
and why so much heart burn...?

@waz @moderator @Oscar @Jango - Can we please combine all the multiple threads on this topic.. Also request all members to not get into personalised rebuttals which goes beyond the scope of this forum's decorum.


On topic:
Why would you take the issue up diplomatically unless
1. This exercise becomes a bad advertisement and nightmare for

a. RAF
b. Eurofighter Typhoon's immediate sales
c. EF consortium member countries feeling the need to cut orders of EF purchase further due to fallout
d. Russian winning brownie points for Su 30 MKI bird - the shadow boxing​

2. An image conscious RAF who is also battling criticisms from the offensive over helpless outdated (african/Mali ) portions pounding day and night would definitely like to stay away from focus on its inability and training issues already plagued with outsourcing debacles... i have detailed that in the original thread..
Indradhanush 2015 | Page 22

That seems to be the true intent.. You dont want more focus on the ill preparedness and issues of National Audit Office remarks opening another scandal and people protesting the lack of foresight and control mechanisms

 

[volatile]

his is IAF's official statement and quiet rightly too. Last time it was IAF officer's own views commenting about exercise which was not a right way to do

Non professional officer taking the cheap shot

 

[pakdefender]

hahhaa aik bar phir , angraiz nay banyay ki chaddi uttar di

 

[waz]

Such silly press reports (original 12-0 line) destroy the good will between airforces. The fact is that the matter had to be raised at diplomatic levels due to the idiocy of some reporters. No one, apart from the crews that participated know anything.

 

[Luca1]

Bragging can only go so far.