IAF asks Dassault to integrate Indian weapons on Rafale fighter jets

[NG Missile Vessels]

In a step that could be a big success for 'Make in India' in defence and also open the global market for desi weapons, the Indian Air Force has asked French firm, Dassault Aviation, to integrate indigenous weapons like 'Astra air' to air missile on the Rafale combat aircraft.

The Rafale is used by many countries including India, France, Egypt, Qatar and many others along with Greece, Croatia, UAE and Indonesia, have placed orders for these planes.

“The IAF has asked the original equipment manufacturer Dassault Aviation to integrate Indian-made weapons like the Smart Anti Airfield Weapon (SAAW) and the Astra air-to-air missile with the Rafale which has been in service with the IAF since 2020,” defence officials told ANI.

Along with these DRDO-developed missiles and bombs, the IAF also has plans of integrating multiple indigenously designed weapons by private sector firms including long-range glide bombs with the aircraft in the near future, they said.

Industry sources said that in view of the capability and the pricing of the Indian weapon systems, there could be a big market for them once they are integrated into the Rafale.

The Indian weapon systems are already integrated into the Su-30 MKI combat aircraft along with the indigenous LCA Tejas.

India operates 36 Rafale fighter jets and has already expressed intent to buy 26 Rafale marine aircraft which are to be used by its Navy.

The Indian Air Force top brass have been pushing for indigenous solutions for their war-fighting requirements to be self-reliant, especially in times of conflict.

A lot of weapon systems acquired by the force during the ongoing standoff with China have also been put on the indigenisation path.

The Astra air-to-air missiles are capable of striking targets up to the 110 Km range but very soon this will be extended to 160 KMs in the Astra Mark 2 while the further upgraded version would be one with a strike range of 300 Kms.

The SAAW can also hit targets at 100 Km plus range and its advanced versions are also being developed.

"The private sector companies have also developed missiles and bombs which can hit targets from long ranges and can be equipped on the Rafale," the officials said.

https://aninews.in/news/national/general-news/iaf-asks-french-firm-dassault-to-integrate-indian-weapons-on-rafale-fighter-jets20230723132617/

 

[Sinnerman108]

Why can't the indians do it themselves ?

I mean there was all that talk of tech transfer and all ...

Seems the avionics are still closed for indians.

 

[Archie]

Why can't the indians do it themselves ?

I mean there was all that talk of tech transfer and all ...

Seems the avionics are still closed for indians.

You need the source code of the avionics for this kind of integration.

We can still integrate without the source code, like we did in case of Mirage 2000 during the kargil war, when it was modified to fire Russian AAMs .
But it is not the right way to do specially during peace time and when we have good relations with the french.
India has already inducted 36 Rafale F3Rs and has ordered 26 Rafale M, with an additional order for 36 More Rafale F4.2 is also likely to be placed in near future

We cannot piss off the french , if we are going to be flying the Rafales till 2055

 

[altafahmed]

View attachment 940468
In a step that could be a big success for 'Make in India' in defence and also open the global market for desi weapons, the Indian Air Force has asked French firm, Dassault Aviation, to integrate indigenous weapons like 'Astra air' to air missile on the Rafale combat aircraft.

The Rafale is used by many countries including India, France, Egypt, Qatar and many others along with Greece, Croatia, UAE and Indonesia, have placed orders for these planes.

“The IAF has asked the original equipment manufacturer Dassault Aviation to integrate Indian-made weapons like the Smart Anti Airfield Weapon (SAAW) and the Astra air-to-air missile with the Rafale which has been in service with the IAF since 2020,” defence officials told ANI.

Along with these DRDO-developed missiles and bombs, the IAF also has plans of integrating multiple indigenously designed weapons by private sector firms including long-range glide bombs with the aircraft in the near future, they said.
View attachment 940469
Industry sources said that in view of the capability and the pricing of the Indian weapon systems, there could be a big market for them once they are integrated into the Rafale.

The Indian weapon systems are already integrated into the Su-30 MKI combat aircraft along with the indigenous LCA Tejas.

India operates 36 Rafale fighter jets and has already expressed intent to buy 26 Rafale marine aircraft which are to be used by its Navy.

The Indian Air Force top brass have been pushing for indigenous solutions for their war-fighting requirements to be self-reliant, especially in times of conflict.

A lot of weapon systems acquired by the force during the ongoing standoff with China have also been put on the indigenisation path.

The Astra air-to-air missiles are capable of striking targets up to the 110 Km range but very soon this will be extended to 160 KMs in the Astra Mark 2 while the further upgraded version would be one with a strike range of 300 Kms.

The SAAW can also hit targets at 100 Km plus range and its advanced versions are also being developed.

"The private sector companies have also developed missiles and bombs which can hit targets from long ranges and can be equipped on the Rafale," the officials said.

https://aninews.in/news/national/general-news/iaf-asks-french-firm-dassault-to-integrate-indian-weapons-on-rafale-fighter-jets20230723132617/

Dassault can integrate anything Indian on Indian acquired Rafales, it will not open big market for Indian weapon systems

 

[vikan]

Dassault can integrate anything Indian on Indian acquired Rafales, it will not open big market for Indian weapon systems

Why will it not?

 

[Sinnerman108]

You need the source code of the avionics for this kind of integration.

We can still integrate without the source code, like we did in case of Mirage 2000 during the kargil war, when it was modified to fire Russian AAMs .
But it is not the right way to do specially during peace time and when we have good relations with the french.
India has already inducted 36 Rafale F3Rs and has ordered 26 Rafale M, with an additional order for 36 More Rafale F4.2 is also likely to be placed in near future

We cannot piss off the french , if we are going to be flying the Rafales till 2055

So you are saying the offset and ToT clauses were not all what they were made to look ?

very naughty of you ...

 

[Archie]

So you are saying the offset and ToT clauses were not all what they were made to look ?

very naughty of you ...

in small batch orders like that of 36 F3R by India, TOT was limited to spares and overhaul so that we are not dependent of Dassault for maintenance.

As far as offset is concerned
Those were in the form of local manufacturing of the Falcon business Jets by Dassault in collaboration with Reliance Defense.
It also included Secma providing assistance for building M88 Aero Engines Overhaul facilities in India and helping HAL with Dry Thrust Kaveri engine development for our UCAV program.

Level of TOT will go up if India orders larger number of Rafales, which could happen in 2024, if Modi Comes back to power.
Their are reports stating that Rafale is the only suitable option for IAF as far as MMRCA category is concerned SO Their is a very high chance that Airforce could push for a combined order with Rafale Ms ,something like 26 for Navy and 36-54 for IAF.
An order for 60-80 jets will provide us with more negotiation muscle than ordering batchs in batches of 26-36

 

[altafahmed]

Why will it not?

Simply because other Rafale jets will not be compatible with Indian weapons

 

[vikan]

Simply because other Rafale jets will not be compatible with Indian weapons

Most asinine statment with no backing. Thats not how they work, should the OEM agree to it, any jet can be modified to fit any weapon that can be theoretically carried on such type of jet.

 

[_killuminati_]

Most asinine statment with no backing. Thats not how they work, should the OEM agree to it, any jet can be modified to fit any weapon that can be theoretically carried on such type of jet.

Some things don't require any more backing than simple common sense,

Why would France help India in such an endeavor where the Indian weapons would gain a potential to compete against and rival French weapon's sales? It's nonsensical to think that France would shoot itself in the foot in this way.

 

[vikan]

Some things don't require any more backing than simple common sense,

Why would France help India in such an endeavor where the Indian weapons would gain a potential to compete against and rival French weapon's sales? It's nonsensical to think that France would shoot itself in the foot in this way.

By that logic why are American weapons integrated on Rafale, why are french weapons integrated on Eurofighter Typhoon? Becase they provide a versatility for the end user to mix and match weapons. So when the buyer looks at a plane they also look at the range of weapons they can use, the more the range of weapons the better the plane is. What will Dassault/France choose? Sell more planes or sell 2 extra bombs per plane?
For someone talking about common sense, you sure arent using it here.

 

[_killuminati_]

By that logic why are American weapons integrated on Rafale, why are french weapons integrated on Eurofighter Typhoon? Becase they provide a versatility for the end user to mix and match weapons. So when the buyer looks at a plane they also look at the range of weapons they can use, the more the range of weapons the better the plane is. What will Dassault/France choose? Sell more planes or sell 2 extra bombs per plane?
For someone talking about common sense, you sure arent using it here.

Then why did IAF fly Mirage-2000 for 30 years without being able to put a single Russian missile on it (which India had on Russian platforms)?

NATO requires full integration of local weapons of each member. Everyone in NATO can mix and match NATO weaponry, but not non-NATO weaponry. Turkey was kicked from the F-35 program for attempting to field the Russian S-300 system with the American F-35.

Here's what the French said when India finally decided to mount Russian missiles on the Mirage,

there were protests from the French government which was not inclined to provide any assistance in the integration of a Russian weapon system onto a French platform, particularly since a new generation of French designed weaponry was available for export to India.
....
"Neither French or Russian help was taken. They were obviously upset," says the IAF officer but the 'jugaad' itself worked.

IAF's French Mirages Fly With Russian Missiles, Thanks To Israeli 'Jugaad'

In Air Force circles, its been referred to as the ultimate 'jugaad' or innovative fix - mating a Russian air-to-air missile to an Israeli helmet mounted display to be worn by an Indian pilot flying a French-built Mirage 2000 fighter.

www.ndtv.com

Jugaad is the only thing you can bank on.

 

[vikan]

Then why did IAF fly Mirage-2000 for 30 years without being able to put a single Russian missile on it (which India had on Russian platforms)?

NATO requires full integration of local weapons of each member. Everyone in NATO can mix and match NATO weaponry, but not non-NATO weaponry. Turkey was kicked from the F-35 program for attempting to field the Russian S-300 system with the American F-35.

Here's what the French said when India finally decided to mount Russian missiles on the Mirage,

IAF's French Mirages Fly With Russian Missiles, Thanks To Israeli 'Jugaad'

In Air Force circles, its been referred to as the ultimate 'jugaad' or innovative fix - mating a Russian air-to-air missile to an Israeli helmet mounted display to be worn by an Indian pilot flying a French-built Mirage 2000 fighter.

www.ndtv.com

Jugaad is the only thing you can bank on.

Go back and re read my posts, i also said if the OEM is OK with it, then third partt weapons can be integrated. Russian weapons are not integrated with western planes because of their historically not so friendly relations with Russia. India is not Russia, integrating Indian weapons on Rafaels is not a security risk for France or allies, instead it offers a wider range of weapons package for the end users to choose from, making the plane a more attractive option compared to other planes.

 

[buntalanlucu]

India should accept previous offer by Dassault that want to sell their MIRAGE 2000 production line to india. With that ability to manufacture Mirage 2000 airframe , india can easily upgrade the avionics and engine and it will still be a fearsome jet to replace their old hardware