I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

[Kompromat]

...

@JayAtl

Your tax dollars will go in vain, we will have the final laugh. Today or 20 years later, this little part if the world is going to dance to our tunes.

CIA is the largest apparatus of global terrorism. We are the victims of the Americam imperialism and William Casy's terrorist brain child.

America paid the price for its creation, in thousands of dead Americans and Billions of dollars spent on wars that cant be won.

We are paying because America's terrorists are located in our geography. If America had not created these monsters in 1979, the world would have been a different place.

Quit this little blame game... "We do what we have to do to serve our business''. Exactly as America does.

In the end this war is going to end on 'our terms'.We have paid the heaviest price, we WILL keep it as a booty.

....

@JayAtl

There is no 'both sides'...!!

You are living in a coocooland. Pakistan is on 'its own side'.

We, have and will keep doing whats 'good for us'. Sometimes our interests with America relate, we help them, when they conflict, we help ourselves.

In this war,Ametica has the hardware and we have the 'source codes'.

We offer a deal, if they refuse we will wait until they go, learn the hard way and come back again.

CIA officials know what they can and cannot do. After all, CIA and ISI are the two most dangerous and unpredictible species....people like us can't understand their flipflops, no matter how much 'tax' we pay.

 

[pak-marine]

@pak-marine

Because Sir, your priorities are misplaced. Protecting the people who we are fighting for is more important than killing the swines of TTP.

the TTP pigs / rats are hiding right behind the civilians , PTI do not dare utter a word against these SOB's .. ! Its TTP to blame who use human sheilds not the drones i think otherwise and is fundamentally wrong to condemn drones but not TTP

Unfortunately so many of us talk about "civilian casualties" without ever trying to figure out how do "civilians" end up in the same bedroom as the Uzbeks.

Are they all married to each other, or just spending the night?

or willingly selling or renting their bedrooms.

How do they end up sharing such close relations.

How?

$$$$ ' s May be , or holding the entire population at gun point .. its easy these morons are experts in fear mongering decapitate 2 people on the goal chakar and no one will utter a word against infact every one will comply

 

[Dubious]

In no way can killing be justified...It tears a part of the soul.....only psychopths can kill and justify it or feel indifference when seeing dead people or injured people...

Man, in reality how many of you have Actually seen one bleed profusely?

These politicians who justify it should send their children in the battlefield...Oh not a problem with these "extra accurate" drones gotcha back then I want to see them campaign for More wars! Why dont they if they trust this technology soo much?

 

[Kompromat]

@pak-marine

PTI is right, history will prove it.

They are creating a divide between the people and the terrorists. You do that by offering the civilians a '2nd option'.

People in our tribal belt are not animals. They want peace more than anything else in the world. You engage them, make them feel as a part of the family, share their grief, fix their issues, give them roads, amenities, safety, jobs, education and health care...they can defeat terror by themselves...with the help of the Army when they want it.

COIN is fought more on the table than on the battlefield. !

 

[FaujHistorian]

In no way can killing be justified...It tears a part of the soul.....only psychopths can kill and justify it or feel indifference when seeing dead people or injured people...

Man, in reality how many of you have Actually seen one bleed profusely?

These politicians who justify it should send their children in the battlefield...Oh not a problem with these "extra accurate" drones gotcha back then I want to see them campaign for More wars! Why dont they if they trust this technology soo much?

Are drones less accurate and thus more lethal than the suicide attacks by the Islamists?

Just curious.

Not that two wrongs can make it right.

But there must be a way to attack those who do suicide bombings and kill 100s of innocent Pakistanis.

there must be.

Don't you think so?

@pak-marine

PTI is right, history will prove it.

They are creating a divide between the people and the terrorists. You do that by offering the civilians a '2nd option'.

People in our tribal belt are not animals. They want peace more than anything else in the world. You engage them, make them feel as a part of the family, share their grief, fix their issues, give them roads, amenities, safety, jobs, education and health care...they can defeat terror by themselves...with the help of the Army when they want it.

COIN is fought more on the table than on the battlefield. !

Most of the development occurs when people obey the law, pay their sales/registration /property taxes.

If they do not,

development remains limited in nature, that is more like "forced development" instead of people developing their own areas.

peace

 

[MilSpec]

@Aeronaut When america spends billion of tax dollars on war's, where does those tax dollar end up... food for thought...

On topic, Any extra judicial killing is despicable, Due process must be given to every possible suspect until and unless there is an armed altercation.

 

[pak-marine]

@pak-marine

PTI is right, history will prove it.

They are creating a divide between the people and the terrorists. You do that by offering the civilians a '2nd option'.

People in our tribal belt are not animals. They want peace more than anything else in the world. You engage them, make them feel as a part of the family, share their grief, fix their issues, give them roads, amenities, safety, jobs, education and health care...they can defeat terror by themselves...with the help of the Army when they want it.

COIN is fought more on the table than on the battlefield. !

its occupied land and is renamed to Islamic emirates of Waziristan. Its people are under oath of Pakistan not foreigner jihadis ., why the locals havent fought back against illegal occupation of Pakistani land ? either they are occupied by force or they have sympathies towards militants .. ! why these people havent migrated into Pakistan IDPS etc ?

 

[Dubious]

Are drones less accurate and thus more lethal than the suicide attacks by the Islamists?

at least if you call them terrorist because they harm innocent why not give the same name to the other team (drones) as well?

Just curious.

Not that two wrongs can make it right.

yea but killing innocents so that their family members can be brainwashed and recruited isnt helping "reduce" them...

But there must be a way to attack those who do suicide bombings and kill 100s of innocent Pakistanis.

there must be.

Don't you think so?

Yes I think so...But if a drone operator himself thinks it has flaws and hurts his conscious who are we who have not operated one to give a better opinion? Don't you think so?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Yes I think so...But if a drone operator himself thinks it has flaws and hurts his conscious who are we who have not operated one to give a better opinion? Don't you think so?

Drone operator is a modern day solider.

For every 1000 soldiers, one or two cannot live with the outcome of their solider-ee, and thus have nightmares.

It is just human.

However if one out of 1000 soldiers has nightmares, it doesn't mean that the rest of 999 soldiers are idiots and bad people and thus are fighting for the wrong cause.

And only the one out of 1000 is righteous because he/she is having nightmares and doubts.

Wars are ugly and there are always few who "cannot take it".

Using these ikka dukka exceptions to support one's claims is kind of childish.


peace

@Aeronaut When america spends billion of tax dollars on war's, where does those tax dollar end up... food for thought...

On topic, Any extra judicial killing is despicable, Due process must be given to every possible suspect until and unless there is an armed altercation.

extrajudicial killing can only be observed in peace time or once the other party has laid down their arms.

As long as the otehr party keeps their gun cocked, the one who blinks goes dead pretty quick.

Hope you understand.

Peace

 

[Dubious]

Drone operator is a modern day solider.

For every 1000 soldiers, one or two cannot live with the outcome of their solider-ee, and thus have nightmares.

It is just human.

However if one out of 1000 soldiers has nightmares, it doesn't mean that the rest of 999 soldiers are idiots and bad people and thus are fighting for the wrong cause.

yea the rest just pick up guns and go shooting random people or end up using up tax payers money for treatment (yup same tax payers who dont want anymore war )

And only the one out of 1000 is righteous because he/she is having nightmares and doubts.

He at least is human and has a guilty feeling...Maybe you have shot someone or seen someone die in front of you so maybe you dont understand or maybe the video games you play made you immune there is a new word coined for that ...desensitized!

Wars are ugly and there are always few who "cannot take it".

there are alot mind you...some just are brave enough to admit it...You see killing is not human nature, it is greed and the want that makes one less of a human...its the animal inside not the human inside

Using these ikka dukka exceptions to support one's claims is kind of childish.

Being ignorant of research and commenting on something you have not even touched, seen let alone imagined at larger scale is childish...its called living in a dream/ ideal world

 

[MilSpec]

extrajudicial killing can only be observed in peace time or once the other party has laid down their arms.

As long as the otehr party keeps their gun cocked, the one who blinks goes dead pretty quick.

Hope you understand.

Peace

I completely understand, but do you understand that the question is essentially of identifying the difference between the infrared image of mujhahideen with an AK and a 60 yr old peasant with a spade or a walking stick in his hand from 16000 feet? Or the difference between the image heat signature from 12000 feet of a group a taliban encroaching through a field and a family returning from a marriage procession?

If you confidently do and can pull the trigger with a clear conscience, then there is no debate...

 

[Counter-Errorist]

You want our help - make the easiest of changes. GET YOUR ISI under control and have them stop supporting terror groups that attack us and our allies. Then we will go all out in helping you

If we don't support (rather ignore) these 'terror groups', they will turn on us just as TTP has when the US conveniently departs Afghanistan. The US created the insurgency by invading Afghanistan in the first place, why on earth should be pay for it? It is in our interest not to go poking at beehives that you've deployed around our homeland.

The US barges around the planet acting like a macho cowboy expending its toys on local populations, then leaves when it's too messy; leaving the locals and neighbors to cleanup after them. And then in your ignorance and presumption of moral supremacy, expect everyone to support your ***.

So you start by GETTING YOUR TRIGGER HAPPY MILITARY under control and then we'll consider helping you.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I completely understand, but the question is do you understand that the question is essentially of identifying the difference between the infrared image of mujhahideen with an AK and a 60 yr old peasant with a spade or a walking stick in his hand from 16000 feet? Or the difference between the image heat signature from 12000 feet of a group a taliban encroaching through a field and a family returning from a marriage procession?

If you confidently do and can pull the trigger with a clear conscience, then there is no debate...

The danger of misidentifying is always there.

Point well taken.

 

[Crypto]

@pak-marine

PTI is right, history will prove it.

They are creating a divide between the people and the terrorists. You do that by offering the civilians a '2nd option'.

People in our tribal belt are not animals. They want peace more than anything else in the world. You engage them, make them feel as a part of the family, share their grief, fix their issues, give them roads, amenities, safety, jobs, education and health care...they can defeat terror by themselves...with the help of the Army when they want it.

COIN is fought more on the table than on the battlefield. !

All it comes down to is, have we learned from out mistakes?
As you wrote earlier, protecting the ones for whom we are fighting is more important they take precedence no questions asked. If we win people we win the war, this is THE most basic and important doctrine of COIN.

We don't want another 71 happening and it will if we can't win people.

Sending TTP to hell comes once we have safeguarded our people.

 

[FaujHistorian]

All it comes down to is, have we learned from out mistakes?
As you wrote earlier, protecting the ones for whom we are fighting is more important they take precedence no questions asked. If we win people we win the war, this is THE most basic and important doctrine of COIN.

We don't want another 71 happening and it will if we can't win people.

Sending TTP to hell comes once we have safeguarded our people.

The only way to truly safeguard people in Wazirastan is to get them out of their and put them in areas such as Lahore and Karachi.

Once the situation stabilizes they can go back to their homes.


peace