What's new

I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

...But here's the thing: I may not have been on the ground in Afghanistan, but I watched parts of the conflict in great detail on a screen for days on end. I know the feeling you experience when you see someone die. Horrifying barely covers it. And when you are exposed to it over and over again it becomes like a small video, embedded in your head, forever on repeat, causing psychological pain and suffering that many people will hopefully never experience. UAV troops are victim to not only the haunting memories of this work that they carry with them, but also the guilt of always being a little unsure of how accurate their confirmations of weapons or identification of hostile individuals were -

Compare to:

Locked in on a mission, they often forget they're in Nevada. Capt. Mark Ferstl, a former B-52 pilot, said drone pilots typically feel more intimately involved in combat than they did when they sat in actual cockpits.

"When I flew the B-52, it was at 30,000 to 40,000 feet, and you don't even see the bombs falling," Ferstl said. "Here, you're a lot closer to the actual fight, or that's the way it seems."..

"From a personal reward standpoint, it's way more fun to climb up the ladder, throw the white scarf around your neck, and get into an F-16 cockpit," said Chambliss, a former fighter pilot who volunteered to fly drones. "But from a combat effectiveness standpoint, it's not even close.

"You can look at guys walking down a road and tell whether any of them are armed," he said. "You can zoom in from an ultra-wide to a road intersection" to look for bombs.

Though more than 95% of their missions involve gathering intelligence or watching over troops, pilots sometimes must decide whether to open fire. They operate under the same rules as pilots of fighter jets or attack helicopters. Only after going through a long checklist of safeguards are they cleared to push a black button on the throttle and squeeze a gray trigger on the joystick to release a bomb or missile.

The pilots call out "Three, two, one, rifle!" as the weapon launches and "Splash!" when it hits its target.

The job also involves confirming deaths, by drone or manned aircraft. Then crew members focus on corpses and ruined buildings.

"You see a lot of detail," Chambliss said. "We feel it, maybe not to the same degree as if we were actually there, but it affects us. Part of the job is to try to identify body parts."


or the viewpoint of the Brits:

...'It’s irrelevant where you are physically sitting,’ Oz says. 'You’re attached to the airframe, you’re attached to the view that you see, and you’re attached to the laws of armed conflict.’

He reacts with cool anger to suggestions that this mode of war reduces victims to the status of players in a video game. 'It’s a bugbear of mine because I’ve had the accusation levelled that it’s a Star Wars game. It’s anything but. If we act like it’s Star Wars, there are people in the command centre watching us and listening to what we do. The taking of human life is not something to be considered lightly. OK, they are bad guys we are killing, but they are still human beings.’

He also bridles at the suggestion that UAVs leave moral judgments to machines. 'The plane cannot start, cannot fly and cannot release a weapon without us doing it. Human beings are in the cockpit – exactly the same as when I was flying a Tornado. We just happen to be 8,000 miles away from the plane.’ -

The Reaper pilots insist their high-resolution cameras, as well as the long periods that they can stay airborne, give them more time to weigh decisions before weapons are fired.

'On a fast-jet, because of the speed you’re coming in at, you don’t have the fuel and the time to hang around. But we can sit on top of this thing for hours at a time,’ Oz says. 'We have the luxury to pick up the phone and say, look – something just doesn’t look right here.’

This recently happened when the RAF Reaper pilots saw what they thought were Taliban insurgents preparing to fire. 'But something didn’t make sense...

The mantra that the Reaper pilots repeat is 'zero expectations of civilian casualties’. They are forbidden to attack buildings if there are women and children in the area and they avoid targeting property. In Afghanistan village life, Taliban fighters are never far away from women and children.

In internal reporting the RAF has dropped the term 'compound’ because it obscures the simple truth that these are houses. As one senior commander told me, 'We’re trying to get it into the guys’ heads that this is not compound no 28, it’s 34 Acacia Drive – so you don’t hit it.’

According to Oz, 'We’ll spend hours watching some guy. There have been plenty of times when I’ve had a clearly identified enemy combatant under my crosshairs and I haven’t been able to fire at him because he’s in a village and there are civilians around. If there’s any doubt, we won’t fire. Apart from the tragedy of wounding or killing an innocent civilian, it plays straight into the hands of the enemy for propaganda – it’s a double whammy. You have to wait for your opportunity.’

It is curious that civilian casualties from drone strikes receive so much attention, while those caused by conventional attack aircraft, whose pilots are also miles away from their targets, are overlooked. But this is because anti-drone campaigners doubt the MoD’s estimates of civilian casualties...
 
. .
@VCheng

If we stop fighting as a mercenery for just 20 years. Stop fighting for the 'ummah', stop acting as a bankrupt Chahudri, most of our issues will be fixed.

Young Pakistanis need to infiltrate the civil service, military, politics, judiciary, commerce and religious doctrines to 'clean them internally'.

It will take long, but it will work.


I would agree with that approach wholeheartedly.
 
. .
Agreed

But USA is not bombing FATA

Just North Wazirastan with occasion pin prick in South W.

Peace
whatever boss our job is done . our army failed to capture or kill both hakeemoo and batuoo and drone hunt them . wish daily 40-50 attacks on FATA so these rats come out from caves or roast in cave
 
.
@JayAtl

Solution is to combine elements of CIA's Special Activities Division and ISI's 'Covert Operations Wing'. Like cold war, both work together. Better target ID, better ground intel, Pakistani operators to fly and shoot and a substantial fund for civilian compensation, rehabilitation and infrastructure development. Education, jobs, health etc

Once we make people feel safe and terrorists unsafe, we win the 'narrative'. As long as both are under fire, this war is destined to fail.

@FaujHistorian

Then why are our 'allies' refusing to seal the Nangahaar border and Waziristano side in Afghanistan?

Thats the main reason why no op has taken place in NW!!

Excuse me but how does the CIA combine with ISI, the ISI that trains and protects those that attack US personale and afghanis? You want us US tax payers to let you fly millions of dollars of our machines and spend billions in our money to protect the haquinis and only kill TTP and those against your state?

no no no bro that ain't happening.
 
. .
Excuse me but how does the CIA combine with ISI, the ISI that trains and protects those that attack US personale and afghanis? You want us US tax payers to let you fly millions of dollars of our machines and spend billions in our money to protect the haquinis and only kill TTP and those against your state?

no no no bro that ain't happening.


In the obscure world of espionage, stranger things have happened.

FYI

When American military commanders come to Islamabad,

they are not here to sip some Kashmiri chai and shoot breeze.

They come here to setup joint ops and programs.

Let's not dumb it down to CIA and ISI. These are just two organizations that are small part of much larger entities in USA and Pakistan.


If you truly want to act as an "American taxpayer" then don't be an anti-Pakistani Indian.

you cannot be in the two boats at the same time.

Cannot be,
 
.
@JayAtl

Precisely why i said the US will do what 'it' wants and will fail.

Pakistan has interests, much long term than the US. We will have to protect them as well as the useful idiots we need to achieve them.

Any such deal that doesn't benefit our gameplan and our objectives is not work able.

We will let the US fight a fuitile war for a little longer.

Please note that we do have a passive ability to 'create' targets for the US. One way or another we are going to have the US help our objectives.

It would be better if we worked together...


And phuleazzeee don't assume that the CIA isn't supporting some elements of Uzbeks in Pakistan.. "'ISI does for Pakistan what CIA does for the US''.
 
.
@pak-marine

Because Sir, your priorities are misplaced. Protecting the people who we are fighting for is more important than killing the swines of TTP.

Unfortunately so many of us talk about "civilian casualties" without ever trying to figure out how do "civilians" end up in the same bedroom as the Uzbeks.

Are they all married to each other, or just spending the night?

or willingly selling or renting their bedrooms.

How do they end up sharing such close relations.

How?
 
.
In the obscure world of espionage, stranger things have happened.

When American military commanders come to Islamabad,

they are not here to sip some Kashmiri chai and shoot breeze.

They come here to setup joint ops and programs.

Let's not dumb it down to CIA and ISI. These are just two organizations that are small part of much larger entities in USA and Pakistan.


If you truly want to act as an "American taxpayer" then don't be an anti-Pakistani Indian.

you cannot be in the two boats at the same time.

Cannot be,

There is no anti pakistani indian here and you should know that of me by now. There is a US taxpayer(s) asking, why should my monies go to protecting just pakistanis, while pakistan will use a share of it to protect those who kill our citizens/ military, hell do so now with the money we give?

this is not rocket science here. ISI protects terror groups that attack us and our allies...how in the world would anyone think we would give you access to our machines and more funding to continue to do so or stop our drones.

it is a very simple question.. you are after all hoping that we do more than what we do with you now.

The " increased" level of help and collaboration is in pakistan's court not ours. If you leave to us we will continue to do what we do.

and worse case scenario is -- one substantial terror attack emanating from pakistan lawless region i.e. if we find out it was hatched by pro ISI groups or just from pakistan's tribal areas will force US to come and wipe out that area. this is not bluster, this is just how we are...and this exactly how we have related it to pak giovt in the past. i.e. not my words or chest thumping... this on the record.
 
. .
@JayAtl

Precisely why i said the US will do what 'it' wants and will fail.

Pakistan has interests, much long term than the US. We will have to protect them as well as the useful idiots we need to achieve them.

Any such deal that doesn't benefit our gameplan and our objectives is not work able.

We will let the US fight a fuitile war for a little longer.

Please note that we do have a passive ability to 'create' targets for the US. One way or another we are going to have the US help our objectives.

It would be better if we worked together...


And phuleazzeee don't assume that the CIA isn't supporting some elements of Uzbeks in Pakistan.. "'ISI does for Pakistan what CIA does for the US''.

I don't this playing both sides of the field and then taking us for morons to go along with you.

You said " Pakistan has interests, much long term than the US. We will have to protect them as well as the useful idiots we need to achieve them."

you think we are fools to see you playing both sides, one of which that continues to kill our personal , harm our interests and we would help you?

I don't think so. You should hear the US congress when it speaks of Pakistan. They are pissed about your side protecting terror groups that kill our people. They have in fact reduced funding not increased it.

You want our help - make the easiest of changes. GET YOUR ISI under control and have them stop supporting terror groups that attack us and our allies. Then we will go all out in helping you
 
.
I know that exactly what am I suggesting.I have earlier discussed in detail that why we are making such compromise,and what are our interests with United States and why?and why United States and our interest are fabricated.I don't want to repeat them again and again.However..let me add that when we talk about countering these terrorists outfits and waging full-fledge war,we didn't mean simple one dimentional or one sided warfare.My context is step by step procedure such as:
-Breaking their connections to their supporting organizations.
-Countering media war ie responding to propegenda machines such as Fazullah khabeesi(I sound like historian,lol)
-Halting parties like JUI to unintentionally/intentionally support their political backbone
-Revealing their true colours,as discussed above..media warfare
-Spreading awareness
-Strenghtening government's writ
-Assuring successful Intel sharing.
-Getting public support by easing problems of civilians.
-waging selective operations first on their weak spots/areas,then final operations against them for once and for all.
Remember:To win public support,never show them of how you have killed them,show them of how they have kill you,when public's excitement and aggression is developed then show your response thus proving that how justified your action was -
We are already loosing ten times more lives of civilians as compare to proper warfare,plus public's support-lol
 
Last edited:
.
There is no anti pakistani indian here and you should know that of me by now. There is a US taxpayer(s) asking, why should my monies go to protecting just pakistanis, while pakistan will use a share of it to protect those who kill our citizens/ military, hell do so now with the money we give?

Aray Bhai

you know more than the American generals who come visit Islamabad?

Do you?

Do you think they are all idiots and know nothing

but you and I being the top net warriors must tell them how to spend your tax money in Afghanistan?

They probably have spent 1000 times more money on Karazahi and he still refuses to sign the treaty

and the only thing you find wrong in this picture is ISI?

Why?

Why oh why
 
.
Back
Top Bottom