I, Maha Sapta Sindhu

[eastwatch]

Invader Muslim kill and loot and rape, always.

I think, you are wrong to say that the Muslims killed Hindus when it was not a battle. After the Muslims had established themselves in Delhi and Hindustan after defeating the ruling Hindus in about 1192 AD, it was more infighting among themselves throughout the six Centuries of their rule.

These Muslims killed each other in order to establish supremacy. This was repeated time and again. Please read the contemporary history books to get an unbiased view of what really happened in those Centuries.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Ancient Pakistani Trade with China

Some one used PS. lol

 

[DesiGuy]

It has become clear even to our indian friends that Islam was spread through love and humanism by the great Sufi sages.

ask Sikhs people. they will tell you that.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I think, you are wrong to say that the Muslims killed Hindus when it was not a battle. After the Muslims had established themselves in Delhi and Hindustan after defeating the ruling Hindus in about 1192 AD, it was more infighting among themselves throughout the six Centuries of their rule.

These Muslims killed each other in order to establish supremacy. This was repeated time and again. Please read the contemporary history books to get an unbiased view of what really happened in those Centuries.

This view presented by Eastwatch is actually a more balanced view, rather than asserting that there was a continuous and sustained massacre of non-Muslims, or even that violent conversions continued throughout the year.

What seems to have happened was an initial period of blood-letting. It was legal in Arabic military custom to kill combatants after their defeat in battle, although it was not so in Indian custom. Their wives and children, other dependants as well, were sold as slaves.

Subsequently, there was sustained social pressure. While submissive and non-combatant non-Muslims were allowed to lead their own lives, subject to Muslim law, they were by all accounts humiliated at every turn by enthusiastic proselytisers: their temples were defiled, their practices mocked, their monuments and buildings taken over just to humiliate them, their children kidnapped and accusations of blasphemy and contumelious behaviour towards the Prophet and the Book were rife.

Reflections of this are to be seen even today, in Muslim majority areas of the sub-continent. Our daily newspapers in Pakistan are full of them; I have not followed Bangladeshi newspapers.

Thirdly, periodic pogroms and extended social punishment. From time to time, on the accession of particularly violent monarchs, the entire character of administration relating to non-Muslims would take a turn for the worse. These campaigns were sometimes related to issues, sometimes not. At times, they were subject not to punishment by the state, but to punishment by civilians, other enthusiastic Muslims acting on their own initiative.

The sum total was a determined drift towards conversion. It is clear that not all of it occurred due to force. It is equally clear that over and above the fear of imminent death, there was pressure of other kinds, many intolerable. And the effects of the wise teachings of the Sufi saints, the voluntary conversions of the West Coast and of Karnataka, of Bengal above all, are not to be ignored.

 

[MadDog]

Tony Blair's sister in law converted to Islam..i ask my fellow indian friends on this forum..was she force by sword to convert...plz get a life and don't distort the true history....Here is the video

As it is mentioned in the video..the more there is hate against muslims...the more the non-muslims read and then many of em convert....like the swiss minister who pushed for manaret ban on mosques after researching on Islam to oppose muslims...himself converted to Islam..here is the link

Member of Swiss Political Party that Pushed for Minaret Ban Converts to Islam -- UK & Euro-Asian News -- Sott.net

 

[IamINDIA]

Tony Blair's sister in law converted to Islam..i ask my fellow indian friends on this forum..was she force by sword to convert...plz get a life and don't distort the true history....Here is the video

YouTube - Tony Blair's sister-in-law converts to Islam

As it is mentioned in the video..the more there is hate against muslims...the more the non-muslims read and then many of em convert....like the swiss minister who pushed for manaret ban on mosques after researching on Islam to oppose muslims...himself converted to Islam..here is the link

Member of Swiss Political Party that Pushed for Minaret Ban Converts to Islam -- UK & Euro-Asian News -- Sott.net

lol tony blair is hated in britain for taking it into iraq and afghanistan,and now his sister in law is hated aswell......

 

[JonAsad]

lol tony blair is hated in britain for taking it into iraq and afghanistan,and now his sister in law is hated aswell......

I didn't know, give me any link of that

 

[Rafi]

ask Sikhs people. they will tell you that.

Hazrat Bābā Farīduddīn Mas'ūd Ganjshakar (Punjabi: حضرت بابا فرید الدّین مسعود گنج شکر (Shahmukhi), ਹਜ਼ਰਤ ਬਾਬਾ ਫ਼ਰੀਦੁਦ੍ਦੀਨ ਮਸੂਦ ਗੰਜਸ਼ਕਰ (Gurmukhi)) (1173–1266)[1][2] or (1188 (584 Hijri) - May 7, 1280 (679 Hijri)),[3][4] commonly known as Baba Farid (Punjabi: بابا فرید (Shahmukhi), ਬਾਬਾ ਫ਼ਰੀਦ (Gurmukhi)), was a 12th-century Sufi preacher and saint of the Chishti Order of South Asia.[1]
Hazrat Baba Fariduddin Ganjshakar, a Sufi, is generally recognized as the first major poet of the Punjabi language[3] and is considered one of the pivotal saints of the Punjab region. Revered by Muslims and Hindus, he is also considered one of the fifteen Sikh Bhagats within Sikhism and his selected works form part of the Guru Granth Sahib, the Sikh sacred scripture

Poetry

Fareed, this world is beautiful, but there is a thorny garden within it.

Fareed, do not turn around and strike those who strike you with their fists.

Fareed, when there is greed, what love can there be? When there is greed, love is false.

Laden with my load of misdeeds, I move about in the garb of black garments. And the people see me and call me a dervish.

My promise to my love, a long way to go and a muddy lane ahead
If I move I spoil my cloak; if I stay I break my word.

One of Farīd’s most important contributions to Punjabi literature was his development of the language for literary purposes. Whereas Sanskrit, Arabic, Turkish and Persian had historically been considered the languages of the learned and the elite, and used in monastic centres, Punjabi was generally considered a less refined folk language. Although earlier poets had written in a primitive Punjabi, before Farīd there was little in Punjabi literature apart from traditional and anonymous ballads. By using Punjabi as the language of poetry, Farīd laid the basis for a vernacular Punjabi literature that would be developed later.
Among the famous people who have visited his shrine over the centuries are the famous scholar-explorer Ibn Battuta, who visited in 1334,[12] and the Founder of Sikhism, Guru Nanak Dev, who met the then head of the shrine, Sheikh Ibrāhīm, twice, and his meeting led to the incorporation of 112 couplets (saloks) and four hymns by Bābā Farid, in the Sikh Holy Book, the Guru Granth Sahib, by the fifth Guru, Arjan Dev in 1604.[4] Guru Nanak was familiar with the verse of Bābā Farīd, and not only includes these verses in the Holy Book, but even comments on some of them.[13] These verses are known to the Sikhs as the Farīd-Bānī; Guru Arjan Dev also added eighteen saloks from the Sikh Gurus, which add commentary to various of Bābā Farīd's work.

 

[RVS_108]

i think the pakistani youth having a greatly misunderstood their Origin and identity

i tell what is actually is

1)IVC is not a pakistan ,its a western part of Civilization of Ancient Indians(Hindus)

If the people think tht India is only IVC then u are wrong ,the findings are going on in India (current India) and these findings says a different story and now archeologist found 3 Ancient cities which are advanced and more older than IVC.


2) when any foreign kingdoms or intellectuals speaks or mentions India it is exclusively India not a pakistan.
i donno why pakistanis are feeling something abt IVC ,coz there nothing pakistani in IVC ,if u study IVC then u will find only Indian in it and more and more u search then more and more u will find more pure indian in it .


3)aryan invasion theory is BS and AIT is already rejected by international community of archeologist and historians ,So no-one will buy it any more.

well,pakistanis thinks tht they got land of IVC or Sindh bcos they are true owner then u shud realise this tht u are second owner ,pakistanis got land becos they asked a separate nation from hindu community and this is the fact.

Many pakistanis ,started distorting this same history by saying pakistan was created when Muhammad Bin kasim came to Sindh ,but then also u need to see tht real history and fact tht Sindh was occupied by Kasim ,not founded by kasim, kasim was destroying Sindh and killing the sindhis there ,he even sent queens of sindh and jewelleries to his masters in baghdad and this tells everything tht what actually he was doing in sindh= very simple he was looting the sindh(western most -Indian kingdom) and same story goes for all the ******* rulers of INDIA ,they nvr wer INDIAN,They all migrated from persia and turkey to INDIA and this is the real identity of ******* in Indian Sub and untill in 40s these emmigrant population of persian and turks asked a land for the nation from hindu community and hindu community gave the land of India to ******* for creation of Pakistan.
and now pakistanis are claiming our ancient IVC ...WOW

 

[MadDog]

Sir i would like to tell u that those pakistanis who claim indus valley civilization were there ancestors...do it on their own...in Pakistan this idea is not even known to the majority of public...so those who wanna do it let em do it.

As i mentioned before Pakistan is a multi ethinic country with roots in subcontinent (gujjars, rajputs ..etc), arabs ( qureshis, shah, sayyed..and other names i gave a few pages before), pushtun (not local to indian subcontinent), baloch, kashmiris, baltis...etc

Check" Punjabi people in Pakistan "on wikipedia....it says this ;

Pakistani Punjabis

"In addition, Punjabi society is divided into two divisions, the zamindar groups or qoums, traditionally associated with farming and the moeens, who are traditionally artisans. Zamindars are further divided into qoups that claim pre-Islamic ancestry such as the Rajput,Aheers, Harals, Ghosi (tribe), Jat, Shaikhs or (Muslim Khatri), Kambohs, Gujjars, Dogars and Rahmani (Muslim Labana). Zamindar groups claiming Central Asian or Middle Eastern ancestry include the Gakhars, Khattar, Awan, Mughal and Arain, comprising the main tribes in the north of the province, while Khagga, Bodla, Jhandir, Daudpota, Gardezi, Syed and Quraishi are found in the south, all of whom claim Arab ancestry. Immigrants from neighbouring regions, such as the Kashmiri, Pashtun and Baluch ,also form important element in the Punjabi population. Pashtun tribes like the Niazis and the Khakwanis, are integrated into Punjabi village life. Especially the members of the Niazi tribe, who see themselves as Punjabis first. They have big communities in Mianwali, Bakkar, Lahore, Faisalabad, Sahiwal and Toba Tek Singh."

So as i said before In Pakistan its a mixture of ethinicities different from indian punjabis...who are all native...in Pakistan yes there are native punjabis who converted but there are also punjabis who ethinicaly arn't local.

Those who wanna claim IVC...are ancestors of those pakistanis whose elders converted should ve to agree that IVC ppl will then be the ancestors of those indians who didnt convert and later on migrated to indian punjab in 1947........so
IVC cannot be considered ancestors of majority of Pakistanis "PERIOD"

It is one of the biggest misguided theories...but i respect everyone's views...they might be ancestors of some pakistanis and indians but not all Pakistanis as i mentioned above...

 

[Joe Shearer]

i think the pakistani youth having a greatly misunderstood their Origin and identity

i tell what is actually is

1)IVC is not a pakistan ,its a western part of Civilization of Ancient Indians(Hindus)

If the people think tht India is only IVC then u are wrong ,the findings are going on in India (current India) and these findings says a different story and now archeologist found 3 Ancient cities which are advanced and more older than IVC.


2) when any foreign kingdoms or intellectuals speaks or mentions India it is exclusively India not a pakistan.
i donno why pakistanis are feeling something abt IVC ,coz there nothing pakistani in IVC ,if u study IVC then u will find only Indian in it and more and more u search then more and more u will find more pure indian in it .


3)aryan invasion theory is BS and AIT is already rejected by international community of archeologist and historians ,So no-one will buy it any more.

well,pakistanis thinks tht they got land of IVC or Sindh bcos they are true owner then u shud realise this tht u are second owner ,pakistanis got land becos they asked a separate nation from hindu community and this is the fact.

Many pakistanis ,started distorting this same history by saying pakistan was created when Muhammad Bin kasim came to Sindh ,but then also u need to see tht real history and fact tht Sindh was occupied by Kasim ,not founded by kasim, kasim was destroying Sindh and killing the sindhis there ,he even sent queens of sindh and jewelleries to his masters in baghdad and this tells everything tht what actually he was doing in sindh= very simple he was looting the sindh(western most -Indian kingdom) and same story goes for all the ******* rulers of INDIA ,they nvr wer INDIAN,They all migrated from persia and turkey to INDIA and this is the real identity of ******* in Indian Sub and untill in 40s these emmigrant population of persian and turks asked a land for the nation from hindu community and hindu community gave the land of India to ******* for creation of Pakistan.
and now pakistanis are claiming our ancient IVC ...WOW

TO ALL PAKISTANI READERS OF THIS THREAD (CAN'T BE MANY, THE WAY IT'S GOING)

You probably think that it is harmless and of no consequence to bait India, to insult India and Indians, to distort political history and military history in order to put down your hated neighbours, to lie awake at night thinking of far-fetched and historically or academically ridiculous theories in order to bait India and Indians, to gang up with the Chinese to offer more insults and provocation.

It may seem that doing all this is pleasantly inconsequential, nothing will come of these brain-farts.

Nothing could be more wrong.

What you are saying in harmless words and in bragging about the superiority of your military, the distinction of your various races and the integrity of your history, is reflected in far more dangerous forms by a different, sinister sort of Pakistani. While you are hurling verbal barrages at us, others are busy, around the clock, designing small, medium and large weapons with which to kill us, men, women and children. Bands of men with warped minds, the same kind of men who have been slaughtering your own innocent people in relief lines, in relief camps, in domestic areas, in shrines, in government offices, in mosques - those same men are preparing to use these murderous weapons against us.

Now look what your concentrated hatred has achieved. Every death due to difference in religion, every assertion of your superiority, every insult that you offered during what some of you call your 1,000 years of rule, all this has created an ugly monster - a mirror image of yourselves, a kind of Hindu Taliban, with its own mirror image of your fanciful histories and social engineering and generous lashings of hatred.

It is overdue now - it's time to grow up. This was the kind of irresponsible bragging and boasting that prevailed in shallow minds before WWI; it became part of political coin before WWII. It isn't reasonable any longer. Every bomb that explodes in India creates an addition to the constituency of hatred.

One day, somebody in New Delhi, pandering to the lowest degree of populism, may lose the tight grip the civilian administration has on the military. If we are unlucky, or if the circumstances are interpreted by a military commander as giving him no scope for refusal - I hope that such a day never comes in my life.

If it does, millions will mourn it, once the shooting stops.

I have no illusions about how this will be read. It is unlikely to have an effect. It is even likely to be a butt of ridicule. The thought of Priam's daughter and Apollo's curse comes to mind.

It's just that somebody has to bear the message to those transgressing, even as they bring their own fate closer by the hour.

 

[MadDog]

Dude the men u are talking about who are a threat to us....u the indians urself support them through ur consulates....better tell this to ur intel services....instead of telling us

 

[DesiGuy]

Dude the men u are talking about who are a threat to us....u the indians urself support them through ur consulates....better tell this to ur intel services....instead of telling us

and vice versa. India is doing in Pakistan what Pakistan has been doing in India for many years.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dude the men u are talking about who are a threat to us....u the indians urself support them through ur consulates....better tell this to ur intel services....instead of telling us

@MadDog

I am APPALLED at your narrow-minded, partisan response. Read the passage below for the opinion of a Pakistani who has respect inside and outside Pakistan:

It is a sad day to be a Pakistani. Another carnage in our country in Bajaur on innocent refugees who were killed by a suicide bomber. These 45 men, women, and children were poor displaced people who had gathered at a food centre to collect food. None of them was from India, Israel or whatsoever. They were all innocent Muslims, Pashtuns, and Pakistanis who were the victims of a hateful ideology of the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

I disagree when people say that this war is between Muslims and other civilizations. In fact this war is between a very small minority of extremists and terrorists and the rest of us who include Muslims, Christians, Hindus and people of the world.

Unfortunately Pakistan is not alone in facing this problem. Brotherly Islamic country of Saudi Arabia is also a victim of this Taliban and Al Qaeda ideology. Wikileaks has leaked a memorable quote from Saudi Crown Prince. He says.

“Terrorists stole the most valuable things we have.They took our faith and our children and used them to attack us.”


@Desi Guy

Please learn, at the highest level of credibility, that there has not been an undercover Indian intelligence presence for decades, since all operatives were withdrawn in the Prime Ministership of I. K. Gujral. Under the present incumbent, too, there have been strict instructions that no covert operations are to be mounted by Indian personnel within Pakistan.

If I did not believe this to be true to the point that I would be willing to testify to this being so on oath, I would renounce my Indian citizenship.

 

[DesiGuy]

Well..never mind. i wouldn't wanna play with your feelings just because of my theory without any evidence. : )