'I had the honour of flying your brave son'

[Guynextdoor2]

To repeat - words are our slaves, not our masters. Adapting is not butchering. Keep pointing it till your voice is hoarse, it won't make a difference. No biggie.

On topic, hope the families of Shaheeds Maj. Varadarajan and Sepoy Vikram Singh find solace.

Yeah, no one talking abour Shaheed Vikram Singh

 

[KingMamba]

And we apply it to anybody who died defending the country. Even simpler, and frankly, nobler.

Negative. Do not try to be funny I was just pointing out the wrong usage of the word but if you are going to continue to use it by all means but to say that our shahids who fit the actual meaning are less noble than your fake concocted version is an insult, if we must be frank.

Anyway I think two pages on the subject is enough.

And how is it any different from the concept Martyr/Martys of the New Testament which mind you predates the Quran

Read my previous post where I answered you, like I said make up your mind.

 

[nair]

Anyway I think two pages on the subject is enough.
.

 

[Roybot]

Read my previous post where I answered you, like I said make up your mind.

I have, its perhaps you who need to read my posts.

In Christianity, a martyr, in accordance with the meaning of the original Greek martys in the New Testament, is one who brings a testimony, usually written or verbal. In particular, the testimony is that of the Christian Gospel, or more generally, the Word of God. A Christian witness is a biblical witness whether or not death follows.[7] However, over time many Christian testimonies were rejected, and the witnesses put to death, and the word martyrdeveloped its present sense. Where death ensues, the witnesses follow the example of Jesusin offering up their lives for truth.

vs

The word "shahid" originates from the Qur'anic Arabic word meaning "witness", which is used in the context of "those who bear witness." Its application to Muslim martyrs originates from the context of the martyr having died in the way of Islam and, theref


I see no difference, just replaced the word God with Allah and Gospel with the Quran.

 

[janon]

Negative. Do not try to be funny I was just pointing out the wrong usage of the word but if you are going to continue to use it by all means but to say that our shahids who fit the actual meaning are less noble than your fake concocted version is an insult, if we must be frank.

Anyway I think two pages on the subject is enough.

I wasn't being funny. I said it in all seriousness. They gave their lives to protect human beings, not some religion or god from god knows what. Forget two pages, even two lines on this subject was unnecessary, but that's expected when some people barge into a poignant thread with unnecessary lectures about word meanings.

Yeah, no one talking abour Shaheed Vikram Singh

Both were almost the same age, born less than a month apart. Both served in the Rajput Regiment, and both served in the 44 Rashtriya Rifles battallion. Both are survived by a young wife and child. The media is focussing more on the officer, although both died in the same battle, for the same cause. Some info about both:

Major Mukund Vardarajan, who was born on April 12, 1983, belonged to Tambram, Tamil Nadu and was commissioned in 22nd Battalion of the Rajput Regiment on Mar 18, 2006 from Officers Training Academy, Chennai. He was posted to 44 Rashtriya Rifles Battalion in valley in December 2012.
He is survived by his wife Indhu Mukund and three- year old daughter Arshea.
Sepoy Vikram Singh belonged to Rewari, Haryana and was born on March 15, 1983 and was enrolled into 17th Battalion of the Rajput regiment on October 7, 2002.
He was with 44 Rashtriya Rifles since December 19, 2012. Vikram is survived by his wife, Sushila and son, Abhishek Kumar.

 

[KingMamba]

I have, its perhaps you who need to read my posts.

In Christianity, a martyr, in accordance with the meaning of the original Greek martys in the New Testament, is one who brings a testimony, usually written or verbal. In particular, the testimony is that of the Christian Gospel, or more generally, the Word of God. A Christian witness is a biblical witness whether or not death follows.[7] However, over time many Christian testimonies were rejected, and the witnesses put to death, and the word martyrdeveloped its present sense. Where death ensues, the witnesses follow the example of Jesusin offering up their lives for truth.

vs

The word "shahid" originates from the Qur'anic Arabic word meaning "witness", which is used in the context of "those who bear witness." Its application to Muslim martyrs originates from the context of the martyr having died in the way of Islam and, theref


I see no difference, just replaced the word God with Allah and Gospel with the Quran.

LOL shahid means witness and this is how it is different from Christianity if you must know, a shahid in Islam is not just those who died in the way of the faith that is only for soldiers and stuff like that, a shahid is also a Muslim who died from sickness, from drowning, in an accident like a car accident etc, a Muslim women who dies while giving birth, a Muslim who was not a soldier but died protecting his own life his family or even his property. The honorific which we attach to the name however is reserved for the greatest shahid namely the ones who die in battle. So while those who sacrifice their lives are Shahid not all Shahid have literally sacrificed their lives but all have died in WITNESS.

Now if you want sources open another thread.

 

[janon]

LOL shahid means witness and this is how it is different from Christianity if you must know, a shahid in Islam is not just those who died in the way of the faith that is only for soldiers and stuff like that, a shahid is also a Muslim who died from sickness, from drowning, in an accident like a car accident etc, a Muslim women who dies while giving birth, a Muslim who was not a soldier but died protecting his own life his family or even his property. The honorific which we attach to the name however is reserved for the greatest shahid namely the ones who die in battle.

Now if you want sources open another thread.

So is there any muslim who is not a shahid? I mean, everbody dies ultimately of some reason, right? Thn why not simply use the wrd muslim, how is shahid an additional concept?

 

[Sourya Kharb]

RESPECT

 

[notsuperstitious]

Some wannabe arabs behaving as if the arabic laguage came out of islam. Now i could reason with them but they believe in flying angels... so kinda pointless.

 

[Indischer]

LOL shahid means witness and this is how it is different from Christianity if you must know, a shahid in Islam is not just those who died in the way of the faith that is only for soldiers and stuff like that, a shahid is also a Muslim who died from sickness, from drowning, in an accident like a car accident etc, a Muslim women who dies while giving birth, a Muslim who was not a soldier but died protecting his own life his family or even his property. The honorific which we attach to the name however is reserved for the greatest shahid namely the ones who die in battle.

Now if you want sources open another thread.

So now you too are saying that Shahid does not simply mean one who gives his life for Islam. Good. We too are using the word in a different context.

And yes, since you guys have borrowed so many words from us, we too have borrowed a few from you. Why this bitching all of a sudden?

 

[KingMamba]

So is there any muslim who is not a shahid? I mean, everbody dies ultimately of some reason, right? Thn why not simply use the wrd muslim, how is shahid an additional concept?

Well sickness depends on the degree most sources say it is usually the ones that involve the most suffering like cancer and so for bearing out the suffering without losing faith the Muslim becomes a shahid. I cannot tell you the pain that goes into such things because thankfully I have never known anyone who has experienced it nor have I.

Those who die normally like most do will be judged regularly.

So now you too are saying that Shahid does not simply mean one who gives his life for Islam. Good. We too are using the word in a different context.

And yes, since you guys have borrowed so many words from us, we too have borrowed a few from you. Why this bitching all of a sudden?

What have we borrowed from you?

Some wannabe arabs behaving as if the arabic laguage came out of islam. Now i could reason with them but they believe in flying angels... so kinda pointless.

Some butt hurt Indian cannot change the fact that while the language did not come out of Islam the term as it is used today sure did. Yeah and I also believe in life on other planets so sue me.

 

[janon]

Well sickness depends on the degree most sources say it is usually the ones that involve the most suffering like cancer and so for bearing out the suffering without losing faith the Muslim becomes a shahid. I cannot tell you the pain that goes into such things because thankfully I have never known anyone who has experienced it nor have I.

Those who die normally like most do will be judged regularly.

Well in that case you might want to accept the fact that my previous statement is true. It is nobler to voluntarily give one's life protecting the nation, than to die in a car crash or of cancer, however painful the death was.

In any case it's the last message on that from me, and long story short, the word "shahid" is used in India for any martyr who dies to protect the nation. That won't change for a long time.

What have we borrowed from you?

What's your currency called? That's just for starters.

 

[Ayush]

RIP to the shaheeds.

 

[Indischer]

Well sickness depends on the degree most sources say it is usually the ones that involve the most suffering like cancer and so for bearing out the suffering without losing faith the Muslim becomes a shahid. I cannot tell you the pain that goes into such things because thankfully I have never known anyone who has experienced it nor have I.

Those who die normally like most do will be judged regularly.



What have we borrowed from you?

So, if someone dies peacefully in his/her sleep he/she isn't a Shahid.

And yes, Punjabi, Sindhi and Urdu have borrowed plenty of words from the so-called Indian languages, some with overtly Hindu symbologies as well. Satyanash, Daneshwar, etc to name a few. Many of the days of the Week are also borrowed. So, when are you reverting them to pure Arabic words?

 

[KingMamba]

Well in that case you might want to accept the fact that my previous statement is true. It is nobler to voluntarily give one's life protecting the nation, than to die in a car crash or of cancer, however painful the death was.

In any case it's the last message on that from me, and long story short, the word "shahid" is used in India for any martyr who dies to protect the nation. That won't change for a long time.


What's your currency called? That's just for starters.

No it is noblest to die in the cause of God which includes protecting the nation, anyway I didn't want to spend as much time on this as I have.

The dollar lol. That is irrelevant I meant from religion like you guys are taking from ours.