I am a Pakhtoon!

[zubair723]

Sorry to hear that you see most of people as not having Ghairat...
what is wrong with the poor farmers who break their backs to provide food to the people of this country...just because they do not carry weapons...it means they have no ghairat?
I see people of great character around me who want to improve things with patience, logic and hard work...does not mean that they are dead souls..../QUOTE]

Yes I see and include myself among the non-Ghairat types. But i dont believe in justifying compromises as patience & logic. These type of great characters are only meek characters. ALLAMA IQBAL's story of TIGERS & LAMBS shows me all this. I want & desire to have the strength to be MUSLIM first then a PAKISTANI and so on. Only being a MUSLIM first affirms my faith in this country & enable my bond between all ethnic groups.

 

[All-Green]

Yes I see and include myself among the non-Ghairat types. But i dont believe in justifying compromises as patience & logic. These type of great characters are only meek characters. ALLAMA IQBAL's story of TIGERS & LAMBS shows me all this. I want & desire to have the strength to be MUSLIM first then a PAKISTANI and so on. Only being a MUSLIM first affirms my faith in this country & enable my bond between all ethnic groups.

Who is asking you not to be a Muslim?
Just be a good Pakistani.

Did Allama Iqbal raise the flag of rebellion against the British empire and die a martyr?
Did the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) not accept a peace treaty with the enemy in order to strengthen the Muslims, even though on surface it was disadvantageous to the Muslims?
Did Salahuddin not enter into a peace agreement with Richard despite the damage inflicted by Crusaders upon Muslim Lands?

Weakness is not in calculated compromises keeping in mind the bigger picture...compromises which eventually help gain enough strength to actually overcome the overwhelming existing problems are all part of a good strategy and should be made...
Weakness is to even stop planning for the future and give up all hope...
When we talk about being strong it should mean to plan without fear of failure...it does not imply to be unrealistic and fore go all the parameters that should dictate your line of action...

You see my friend this is what i say about oversimplification and about glorification of Islam as a warrior cult...most of us think that being Muslims, common sense and logic should be ignored and no care should be taken about the relative strengths and weaknesses of friends and foes...we ignore the stratagem and acumen of our successful leaders and commanders past.

beating our chest is not the answer to our problems.

 

[zubair723]

Who is asking you not to be a Muslim?
Just be a good Pakistani.

Did Allama Iqbal raise the flag of rebellion against the British empire and die a martyr?
Did the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) not accept a peace treaty with the enemy in order to strengthen the Muslims, even though on surface it was disadvantageous to the Muslims?
Did Salahuddin not enter into a peace agreement with Richard despite the damage inflicted by Crusaders upon Muslim Lands?

Weakness is not in calculated compromises keeping in mind the bigger picture...compromises which eventually help gain enough strength to actually overcome the overwhelming existing problems are all part of a good strategy and should be made...
Weakness is to even stop planning for the future and give up all hope...
When we talk about being strong it should mean to plan without fear of failure...it does not imply to be unrealistic and fore go all the parameters that should dictate your line of action...

You see my friend this is what i say about oversimplification and about glorification of Islam as a warrior cult...most of us think that being Muslims, common sense and logic should be ignored and no care should be taken about the relative strengths and weaknesses of friends and foes...we ignore the stratagem and acumen of our successful leaders and commanders past.

beating our chest is not the answer to our problems.

Plain justification of compromises because of SELF WEAKNESSES. Nothing else.
If the Historical scenarios are re-enacted.
Our Beloved Prophet(p.b.u.h) migrated twice , spent few years of social bycott in a miserable condition. Logical & self proclaimed strategists would have said. "What, leave all our life savings & properties. What about our children? Is there BEACONHOUSE where we are going. NO!!! This is not wise, no good strategy.
What about BADAR. Many LOGICAL MINDS again said , no good fighting them face to face. What about our children, we cant fight a bigger & better equipped ARMY.
WHat about IMAM HUSSAIN. (RA). It s very easy to calculate the benefits for yourself & your clan. Its not about calculations, its about not letting go what you believe in & ready to sacrifice all for it. Thats whats its all about being a HONOURABLE & DIGNIFIED MAN. History only remembers these type of MEN & THERE "DEFY ALL LOGIC" achivements.
Dont be selective about historical contexts and again to justify your own fears.

 

[osamaziadxb]

No one is slaughtering the Pathans no where. If a Punjabi will create problems for Pakistan, i'll be taken to task, a Baloch will try to act smart we the Pakistanis will kick him, if a Sindhi will ask for Sindhu Desh, he'll be held from his balls, similarly if a Pathan will think that he is smarter then the Pakistanis, he'll get what he deserve! And that is what is currently happening!

If you think it is wrong, we'll consider you one of THEM!


@Neo: You Pakhtoon da!

I think u must take a trip of Sarhad .. I wellcome u and wil tel u whats wrong here..Dont beleive on media..

I want to mention again that i m Pakistani but Pakistani pakhtoon.Have i Said that i m not pakistani? if yes tell me where?

Ur lecture is expire now a days..the person sitting in his home safe can make bundle of words like u did.

We dont want any pakhtoonistan or Pakhtunkhwa..we want a peaceful province ..and it can't be possible if u r not helping us practically..Jus by saying few words we r not satisfying...

 

[Cheetah786]

Plain justification of compromises because of SELF WEAKNESSES. Nothing else.
If the Historical scenarios are re-enacted.
Our Beloved Prophet(p.b.u.h) migrated twice , spent few years of social bycott in a miserable condition. Logical & self proclaimed strategists would have said. "What, leave all our life savings & properties. What about our children? Is there BEACONHOUSE where we are going. NO!!! This is not wise, no good strategy.
What about BADAR. Many LOGICAL MINDS again said , no good fighting them face to face. What about our children, we cant fight a bigger & better equipped ARMY.
WHat about IMAM HUSSAIN. (RA). It s very easy to calculate the benefits for yourself & your clan. Its not about calculations, its about not letting go what you believe in & ready to sacrifice all for it. Thats whats its all about being a HONOURABLE & DIGNIFIED MAN. History only remembers these type of MEN & THERE "DEFY ALL LOGIC" achivements.
Dont be selective about historical contexts and again to justify your own fears.

You sir are certifiable

 

[Xeric]

Ur lecture is expire now a days..the person sitting in his home safe can make bundle of words like u did.

Osama, i can assure you that i have seen more blood than you in Sarhad!

So relax.

 

[All-Green]

Plain justification of compromises because of SELF WEAKNESSES. Nothing else.
If the Historical scenarios are re-enacted.
Our Beloved Prophet(p.b.u.h) migrated twice , spent few years of social bycott in a miserable condition. Logical & self proclaimed strategists would have said. "What, leave all our life savings & properties. What about our children? Is there BEACONHOUSE where we are going. NO!!! This is not wise, no good strategy.
What about BADAR. Many LOGICAL MINDS again said , no good fighting them face to face. What about our children, we cant fight a bigger & better equipped ARMY.
WHat about IMAM HUSSAIN. (RA). It s very easy to calculate the benefits for yourself & your clan. Its not about calculations, its about not letting go what you believe in & ready to sacrifice all for it. Thats whats its all about being a HONOURABLE & DIGNIFIED MAN. History only remembers these type of MEN & THERE "DEFY ALL LOGIC" achivements.
Dont be selective about historical contexts and again to justify your own fears.

It seems i have hit a wall...

I am well versed in Muslim history, do not think that i am quoting examples out of context, i have many more examples but what is the point to waste more time when some clear examples have already been given?

Why should i not be afraid to lose all for nothing to gain in this world and the hereafter?

You are welcome to praise only the DEFY ALL LOGIC achievements and that in itself is what i want to remove from Muslim way of thinking. So i guess we cannot agree as long as you hold to the defy all logic notion of greatness.
No worries, i am sure with the passage of years you will come to know what i am talking about...

I believe in logical planning, calculated risks and compromises and then following through with all efforts...
Planning and execution require hard work and only then does Allah bless the Muslims in their efforts...
There is only that in the world for us for which we strive for...If you think Islam reached its glory through arms alone then you could not be more wrong.

My friend your argument is not very sound

I have given clear examples where Muslim leaders chose to save their nation with a sound strategy knowing fully well that with time they shall prevail...this was in answer to your argument that we are not ghairat mand enough and compromises should never be made at all...what sort of compromise is another matter but if you say that our best leaders did not compromise for the sake of the state then that means you and i have read entirely different accounts of our history...nothing else comes to my mind.

What good is it to beat a drum and challenge your enemy to a duel when all you can do is get killed?
Better to survive...use all means to avoid conflict and make sure that enemies are divided and not united...go from strength to strength and then look everyone in the eye.

The pact of Medina was an excellent example of stratagem to make sure that potential enemies do not join hands...
the peace of Hudabia was excellent compromise though many brilliant and best of Muslims like Hazrat Umar (RA) failed to agree with the overtly meek stance of the Muslims, eventually all realized how beneficial if became.

With the militant/logic defying Mullah approach we shall raise hue and cry constantly while at the same time being assailed on all sides and fronts...we shall declare everything as a conspiracy while not addressing our lack of education, lack of resources, lack of commerce, lack of acumen, lack of technology and many other core issues...with so many parameters not going in our favor, we can only try to reach some good compromises...had we been blessed with oil like the Arabs and Iranians we would not have been so compromising but this is a test for us... we should remember our failings, our shame and make it a motivating factor for us to get stronger, better and a global powerhouse in 20-40 years...

With the calculated strategical approach we may make compromises today in order to become strong but we will be strong enough tomorrow to take an eye for an eye!

All the technological advancements of the major players in the world are through patience, hard work, determination, education and excellent resource utilization...
Slogans and emotions will only help so much...there is no shortcut to success...it is a long arduous journey which requires time and effort...

To fear the real threats facing oneself is not something bad, as long as one is not afraid to plan a way to counter the fears...if one does not identify the threat in a logical manner and give it due respect, one cannot overcome it.

Honor and dignity is not the hallmark of a warrior alone...even non courageous people like me can act honorably in our lives without having martial skills.

 

[All-Green]

I think u must take a trip of Sarhad .. I wellcome u and wil tel u whats wrong here..Dont beleive on media..

I want to mention again that i m Pakistani but Pakistani pakhtoon.Have i Said that i m not pakistani? if yes tell me where?

Ur lecture is expire now a days..the person sitting in his home safe can make bundle of words like u did.

We dont want any pakhtoonistan or Pakhtunkhwa..we want a peaceful province ..and it can't be possible if u r not helping us practically..Jus by saying few words we r not satisfying...

What you need is the support of PA...
Believe me i have known some great patriotic friends and their associates who met gruesome ends at the hands of the TTP.
i have not even one iota of mercy for TTP.

No one doubts the valor of the Pakhtoons and their contribution to Pakistan...just don't feel that these actions are anti Pakhtoon and do not support the people who portray this as an ethnic war...
This is war on the terrorists called TTP.

 

[zubair723]

It seems i have hit a wall...

the peace of Hudabia was excellent compromise though many brilliant and best of Muslims like Hazrat Umar (RA) failed to agree with the overtly meek stance of the Muslims, eventually all realized how beneficial if became.

Again picking & distorting History with the present.
PEACE of HUDABIA secured the STAUTUS QUO. It never compromised on MEDINA's sovereignty nor it asked for killing of MEDINA inmates, nor selling of MEDINA's resources. Nor it asked for putting in NRO ZARDARI & REHMAN MALIK & cronies to eat away more. PEACE of HUDABIA never mentioned that whoever will be against QURAISH policies should be declared 'TERRORIST' & killed.
That agreement meant to secure MUSLIMS freedom with no strings attached.
It was definetly not a compromise to cowardly extend life a bit more at any price. The easiest thing in life is to justify wrong & evil. Well cowardly attitudes are the most easly justifiable.

 

[All-Green]

Again picking & distorting History with the present.
PEACE of HUDABIA secured the STAUTUS QUO. It never compromised on MEDINA's sovereignty nor it asked for killing of MEDINA inmates, nor selling of MEDINA's resources. Nor it asked for putting in NRO ZARDARI & REHMAN MALIK & cronies to eat away more. PEACE of HUDABIA never mentioned that whoever will be against QURAISH policies should be declared 'TERRORIST' & killed.
That agreement meant to secure MUSLIMS freedom with no strings attached.
It was definetly not a compromise to cowardly extend life a bit more at any price. The easiest thing in life is to justify wrong & evil. Well cowardly attitudes are the most easly justifiable.

You said No Strings attached!
Do you even know what you are talking about?

Returning Muslims who fled from the oppression and tyranny of the Quraysh to their oppressors was not a compromise?
I cannot believe what i am hearing and of course am totally unconvinced.

Let us not dwell in history if this is how you assess Hudabia.
I totally agree to disagree with you.

Let us come to the present and the core issue of the elusive Ghairat which needs to be awakened.
Pray tell me, how to go about it...
What is the solution to our problems?
What have you proposed that will get us out of this mess?

 

[zubair723]

Let us come to the present and the core issue of the elusive Ghairat which needs to be awakened.
Pray tell me, how to go about it...
What is the solution to our problems?
What have you proposed that will get us out of this mess?

We are all responsible for the present mess. As someone said "EVIL IS SUCESSFUL WHEN THE FEW GOOD MEN CHOOSE TO DO NOTHING". Thats what has happened we have always chose to do nothing & have tried to ignore the problem or expects outsiders to solve it instead. In short we have always opted for easy way out. It bleeds at least my heart to see who is dying & getting killed . Commom folks , whether they are our young army officers or jawans or the rebels who are fighting them. I would love to see these REHMAN MALIKS & there children or the so called parasite elite go & fight on the front. They are all busy wheeling & dealing & filling there pockets. And on top it angers me that by all this we are providing our enemies 'merry moments' because we are ourselves doing their tasks.
Solutions will only become visible when we will stop taking dictations from outsiders & start living on our own and as per ou own identity & our own religion. The choice is simple --One day of a LION as a free man or Hundred days of Jackal. Thats what we have to decide first.

 

[kidwaibhai]

osama,
all pakistani love their puktoon brothers. i know i do. what is happening in NWFP is very sad and it should be stopped. but what people need to understand is that most of the violence is being done by extremists. ( they include all of pakistans ethnic group). this problem is for all the country not only for the people of surhad but they are the ones that are receiving the brunt of the violence.
Pakistan Zindabad

 

[s90]

I guess when we use the word PAKISTAN every nationality comes in it!

 

[osamaziadxb]

Osama, i can assure you that i have seen more blood than you in Sarhad!

So relax.

Engima Bro..I know u were in Army.But i want to say that seeing the blood of civilians is different thn enemy ..

We dont want any Taliban ,shariat, politician ..We want our peaceful Pakistani Province and we will flow blood for it..U will c nd u r seeing

 

[forcetrip]

The support to the lashkars should never have been stopped. They were acting as good front runners for their respective troubled areas. I am guessing some bad apples within the lashkars made it impossible to keep the flow of information and weapons to them...