I Almost Forgot About It---BVR Combat---No Need For The Machine Gun:---

[Raider 21]

You don't deserve the respect I offered you.. you piece of shit..

Sitting in the US and commenting on the capability of PAF bsdk..

You "G", your pathetic shitty posts about PAF were equivalent to Indian R rona on the channels when you start shitting from your mouth on 26th.. and on 27th, your mouth suffered from acute constipation.. now again you are suffering from diarrhea... that to from your mouth.

BSDK.. ainda apni tarbeeyat ko ko yahan nahi dikhana..

AND YES, PAF knows MORE THAN YOU or any other pieces of shit likes yours on this forum...

MC kaheen ke..
--------------------------------------------------------
P.S. I wasn't the one who made fun of you on 26th..

and read my post once again how politely I have asked a simple question..

Just ignore him and his types. He does make valid points sometimes but this thread has more about recognition and finger pointing than content.

 

[BATMAN]

That's like not adding an emergency break to the lastest year model car. Stupid.

You meant parking break.

Machine gun is like a backup when you exhaust all the missiles. It is more or less like bayonet for a rifle.

Machine gun can be quite cost effective option for a slow moving target like helicopter or large aircraft like fuel tanker or awacs. Second thing is that machine gun can be used to intimidate the target without bringing them down where you want to force the target to land.

In a match of equals BVR is a must, no doubt about it.

May i ask... what were you planning with mix of mig-21-bis and Su-30, on a chase run?

 

[MastanKhan]

Just ignore him and his types. He does make valid points sometimes but this thread has more about recognition and finger pointing than content.

Hi,

That is all I need---" He does make valid points sometime "---if I knew it all---then I would be a prophet-----and I am not.

 

[Beast]

Sir with all due respect why do you think that the Americans with all the technology at their disposal have installed a Gatling gun on the F35????

They cannot get over their pain in Vietnam war. It's more of a fear than need. China J-20 do not have gun.

In Vietnam war, BVRAAM was unreliable and no IFF system and Vietnam war was 45 years ago. Today BVRAAM has matured and with reliable IFF. Things are different.

 

[BHarwana]

Hi,

You are dead by that time---.

BVR launch---WVR launch---and you are on bingo fuel heading to the base---.

You want to stay in the arena for a dog fight with the enemy---and another enemy aircraft for 30 miles away would launch a BVR at your aircraft and you would not even know what hit you---.

In todays combat---the dog fight is a senseless engagement---it even the odds of dying---and if the enemy is more in numbers---you are already dead before you even knew about it---.

The intensity of a dogfight is extremely severe---with your focus on the target---you have no clue to what is happening around you---you don't even hear of the warnings your system is giving you---.

In war when squadernds come face to face and ECM take out BVR and the BVR are spent then your are only left with a gun. Yes your point is valid but Vietnam says gun is necessary sir.

 

[MastanKhan]

In war when squadernds come face to face and ECM take out BVR and the BVR are spent then your are only left with a gun. Yes your point is valid but Vietnam says gun is necessary sir.

Hi,

A smart operator will not come face to face---. From your comment you may not understand the difference in weapons technology of vietnam and now ---.

Don't listen to the idiots who told you that---.

They also told you that the BVR percantage kill is very very low---excuse me and screw them---your first two bvr's made the 2 kills---.

Young man---I am getting old---I cannot take this " this happened in vietnam " stupidity any more---. Please spare me---.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

In war when squadernds come face to face and ECM take out BVR and the BVR are spent then your are only left with a gun. Yes your point is valid but Vietnam says gun is necessary sir.

In the terminology of the Ehl-i Iman, face to face with one's Ya'kin/Ihlas etc....

And, Ihlas is nothing but infinite capacity to take pains while training hard during the peace time...

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir with all due respect why do you think that the Americans with all the technology at their disposal have installed a Gatling gun on the F35????

Hi,

Pressure from congress--old stalwarts of vietnam war---.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hi,

A smart operator will not come face to face---. From your comment you may not understand the difference in weapons technology of vietnam and now ---.

Don't listen to the idiots who told you that---.

They also told you that the BVR percantage kill is very very low---excuse me and screw them---your first two bvr's made the 2 kills---.

Young man---I am getting old---I cannot take this " this happened in vietnam " stupidity any more---. Please spare me---.

However, it might also mean that their EW suits got compromised at the first place when they got locked at the "right" coordinates. Hence, EW stuffs can't be an "export" version....

No wonder in my first sophomore level Electromagnetics course, a good many decades back, our Professor was talking about the research programs on EW in my alma mater....

Rahmet-li Nejmettin Erbakan, former PM of Turkey and a professor of Mechanical engineering, was talking about EW based anti-missile shield in some lectures before his death. ASELSAN was established while he was a junior partner in a coalition government, which liberated the Turkish folks in Cyprus...

 

[BHarwana]

Hi,

A smart operator will not come face to face---. From your comment you may not understand the difference in weapons technology of vietnam and now ---.

Don't listen to the idiots who told you that---.

They also told you that the BVR percantage kill is very very low---excuse me and screw them---your first two bvr's made the 2 kills---.

Young man---I am getting old---I cannot take this " this happened in vietnam " stupidity any more---. Please spare me---.

A smart operator will not come face to face but a purpose of a jet is not to run your self and save your own *** but to defend an objective and land. Yes sir you cannot understand this because in American terminology a pilot needs to defend it's self but in Pakistani terminology we need to defend our home land and we will fight till our last drop of blood so we need gun along BVR. The problem is not argument but our perception of war doctorin. We fight with every thing.

 

[MastanKhan]

A smart operator will not come face to face but a purpose of a jet is not to run your self and save your own *** but to defend an objective and land. Yes sir you cannot understand this because in American terminology a pilot needs to defend it's self but in Pakistani terminology we need to defend our home land and we will fight till our last drop of blood so we need gun along BVR. The problem is not argument but our perception of war doctorin. We fight with every thing.

Hi,

I told you I am getting old and don't have patience for those who cannot learn---.

Air combat has changed---it changed with the onset of modern combat---modern BVR missile and the 5th gen aircraft---cost of the aircraft---the cost of training a pilot---.

Don't bang your head against mine---you won't learn anything---. If what you wrote is what you believe---then it is living a lie---but of that is what you have been told---then they have told you a lie------those who have taught you that---.

Don't give me the bullcrap of defending "our home and last drop of blood---it sounds fake---".

You kids have been taught few words and at time of tension across the border---that is what you repeat---and that is what the indians repeat as well---.

You need to go elsewhere to impress someone with those comments---.

I am an insider---I smell bullsh-it when I hear these comments---.

A fighter pilot who throws himself in a battle as you describe him---he is a traitor to the nation---and looking for self glory---a nation needs more than self glorification in war for " personal " causes---.

 

[PakSword]

Just ignore him and his types. He does make valid points sometimes but this thread has more about recognition and finger pointing than content.

I usually ignore his rants, but still I tried not to disrespect him when he criticized PAF on 26th. He always comes up with something to bash PAF so much so that an ordinary person like me starts doubting thanks PAF is equivalent to 1960s Botswana Air Force.

On 26th, after reading his thread, I was so mad at PAF you can't imagine. I thought our Jets will never be able to come close to mighty IAF Jets when there is an engagement ever.

And on 27th, his stupid claims were destroyed by none other than PAF. I am now at least confident that even if we don't win the next conflict, we will still be able to put up a reasonable resistance. Our PAF forced Indian pm to miss Rafale.

Now since he has been proven wrong, he has started making threads to prepare a ground to again put doubts in the hearts of ordinary people. You will see his true colors in a few days although I wish I am proven wrong.

Despite all of this, I have him respect which, he showed later, he didn't deserve. I even asked him to not take any of my crimes to criticism to his heart. But he responded back forgetting that he himself criticizes a very good institution, but can't withstand even soft criticism for himself.

Phir main ne iss ki achi wali izzat afzai ki, jisay yeh shayad bachpan se sunta aaya hai... Lolll

 

[gambit]

Time is changing BVR is/will more reliable then gun, future wars will wholly based on BVR engagements, at vietnam war USA think BVR were reliable but they were not @GumNaam

Not on the wing. Today's cannon are more powerful than the guns of WW II and that power is one reason why the ammo capacity is a few hundreds rounds, like the F-16 with about 500 rounds, versus the P-51 50 cal machine guns and about 1800 rounds. If you mount the cannon pod on the wing, you have to deal with offset forces during recoil and structural flex that will affect accuracy. Not impossible, but difficult and generally not worth it.

 

[CriticalThought]

Hi,

I told you I am getting old and don't have patience for those who cannot learn---.

Air combat has changed---it changed with the onset of modern combat---modern BVR missile and the 5th gen aircraft---cost of the aircraft---the cost of training a pilot---.

Don't bang your head against mine---you won't learn anything---. If what you wrote is what you believe---then it is living a lie---but of that is what you have been told---then they have told you a lie------those who have taught you that---.

Don't give me the bullcrap of defending "our home and last drop of blood---it sounds fake---".

You kids have been taught few words and at time of tension across the border---that is what you repeat---and that is what the indians repeat as well---.

You need to go elsewhere to impress someone with those comments---.

I am an insider---I smell bullsh-it when I hear these comments---.

A fighter pilot who throws himself in a battle as you describe him---he is a traitor to the nation---and looking for self glory---a nation needs more than self glorification in war for " personal " causes---.

Actually, you are nothing but a used car salesman. What you are describing are procedures relevant to hundred million dollar jets with advanced stealth capabilities. For a jet like Thunder, completion of mission is of utmost importance. If a nuclear installation is under threat, it won't just stay at BVR range. It will move in and engage with all means available, all the way to ramming his jet into the enemy if needed.

 

[Riz]

Not on the wing. Today's cannon are more powerful than the guns of WW II and that power is one reason why the ammo capacity is a few hundreds rounds, like the F-16 with about 500 rounds, versus the P-51 50 cal machine guns and about 1800 rounds. If you mount the cannon pod on the wing, you have to deal with offset forces during recoil and structural flex that will affect accuracy. Not impossible, but difficult and generally not worth it.

@gambit sir.. What u would say about the IAF claims of SU30mki saved itself from multiple Amraams fired by PAF..???