Hundreds of Vietnamese women are kidnapped to China every year. This organization brings them back.

[cnleio]

I don't know. Obama leadership did ruined the US's economy. Donald Trump is anti-China. He's a concern for sure. He's not just some smuck from a Political standpoint. He's a brilliant businessman. Obama has lost a lot of respect already for being a weak president of the US.

LOL ... let me tell me something, a businessman never hate money it's an eternal law in our world, especially a brilliant businessman won't deny to trade with China (world N.o2 economy) ... when Donald Trump win the election as U.S president, the guy will keep good relationship with China, even encourage more trades with China. Coz he is a businessman and a businessman living for money & die for money, and China is the biggest market in the planet. A businessman understand how to win the market, where Donald Trump to go?

 

[vtnsx]

LOL ... let me tell me something, a businessman never hate money it's an eternal law in our world, especially a brilliant businessman won't deny to trade with China (world N.o2 economy) ... when Donald Trump win the election as U.S president, the guy will keep good relationship with China, even encourage more trades with China. Coz he is a businessman and a businessman living for money & die for money, and China is the biggest market in the planet. A businessman understand how to win the market, where Donald Trump to go?

Yeah, you really don't know what you're talking about. You should spend some time watching Donald Trump's speech. It's pointless to say more at this point.

 

[cnleio]

Yeah, you really don't know what you're talking about. You should spend some time watching Donald Trump's speech. It's pointless to say more at this point.

I already told the truth in my post ... u believe a businessman anti-China ? It just means u have less communication with these BOSSes in real-life. Donald Trump is the real concern for China ... im sure, two things he really need concern:
1. how to win election as a president candidate in U.S.
2. how to win market as a businessman in China.

A billionaire businessman try to play a big deal between governments, first he shoud win the election. Just like YES, YOU CAN

 

[gambit]

It's because of wealth. You can't compare Vietnam to Japan and South Korea, those two countries have high standard of living. The women there aren't poor. Again, Communism and dictatorship is to blame.

SPANKED...!!! Good job.

 

[vtnsx]

I already told the truth in my post ... u believe a businessman anti-China ? It just means u have less communication with these BOSSes in real-life. Donald Trump is the real concern for China ... im sure, two things he really need concern:
1. how to win election as a president candidate in U.S.
2. how to win market as a businessman in China.

A billionaire businessman try to play a big deal between governments, first he shoud win the election. Just like YES, YOU CAN
View attachment 273062

Again, you need to do more research about Donald Trump. You really don't know him. I've personally met and spoke to a billionaire face to face and one on one. I doubt you have. I haven't met Donald in person, yet. But I've known bosses that were inspired and got rich because of Trump.

Not all US billionaires are the same as Chinese billionaires. I highly recommend you read up on Donald Trump.

 

[Wolfwind]

Of course I answered properly. You guys just ain't got the smarts to understand it.

The issue is consent, as in consenting adults. Do you understand the concept of 'consenting adults' ?

If a person want to destroy himself slowly thru drug use, he is not DIRECTLY harming anyone else. So from a libertarian perspective, why should either user and seller be punished ? For what ? Who else is being DIRECTLY harmed ? However, if a country have illegal drug laws, then it is up to the people to determine if selling and using deserves the same level of punishment.

So explain to us what woman will consent to being abducted and sold to be used as a little more than a semenal wastebasket to a strange man ?

Gambit you're getting confused.

1. Should a drug supplier and a drug user be punished the same? Yes or no.

2. I lurk on many Asian forums and know a fair bit about the sociological and socioeconomic power dynamics within Asia. And I can tell you that there are many Southeast Asian (including Vietnamese) women that do consider marriage to East Asian men as a means to escape poverty and have better opportunities. Once married it is their wish they can get a green card, do some work and send money home.

3. The paradigm here is supply and demand, not consent. If you're discussing consent then the legal burden is on the kidnapper.

It's because of wealth. You can't compare Vietnam to Japan and South Korea, those two countries have high standard of living. The women there aren't poor. Again, Communism and dictatorship is to blame.

I don't think a dictatorship is a key factor in the lack of developmental results. South Korea and Singapore started out as dictatorships, and are now one of the most successful societies in the world. Without strict order, they could have turned out more like India i.e. complete chaos.

But there are many confounding factors, and I think culture plays a part. The culture in South Korea and Singapore are very focused on hard work and brilliance. They are not slacking cultures.

What I see here is a bunch of Chinese kids, probably none of whom ever touched a woman, defending one of the most morally gross crimes a human being can do to another. They see nothing wrong with it because they see other Asians as nothing to start.

What I see here is an American who is not culturally Chinese nor Vietnamese, or by ethnicity, heritage or identity, declaring themselves as some self-appointed, self-righteous arbiter of intra-Asian issues. I think it's almost a trope for someone of your demographic to assume the role that exhibits a gross display of 'me me me' power. I think you need to be more mindful and considerate of your own background, and those of others.

To me, it just begs the question as to why you are posting in this thread. If you truly cared so much about the welfare of impoverished Vietnamese women, then why don't you campaign for Vietnamese women to be brought over to USA in droves? But then again I can sort of see that falling into another popular trope that involves perverted White male expats and their submissive Asian mail order brides.

 

[gambit]

Gambit you're getting confused.

Actually...YOU are.

1. Should a drug supplier and a drug user be punished the same? Yes or no.

As a libertarian -- No.

I thought that was already clear. But the comparison is still inapplicable since there is no 3rd party involved.

2. I lurk on many Asian forums and know a fair bit about the sociological and socioeconomic power dynamics within Asia. And I can tell you that there are many Southeast Asian (including Vietnamese) women that do consider marriage to East Asian men as a means to escape poverty and have better opportunities. Once married it is their wish they can get a green card, do some work and send money home.

Fine...That would fall under the concept of CONSENTING ADULTS..

Which part of CONSENTING ADULTS do you not understand ?

Let me guess, as a Chinese, you believe abduction falls under the concept of 'consenting adults' ?

What I see here is an American who is not culturally Chinese nor Vietnamese, or by ethnicity, heritage or identity, declaring themselves as some self-appointed, self-righteous arbiter of intra-Asian issues. I think it's almost a trope for someone of your demographic to assume the role that exhibits a gross display of 'me me me' power. I think you need to be more mindful and considerate of your own background, and those of others.

Really...??? Is abduction culturally unique ? Which part of my background disqualified me from pointing out a wrong ? Or are you saying that being Chinese, you are excused from even the most basic standards of human decency ?

To me, it just begs the question as to why you are posting in this thread. If you truly cared so much about the welfare of impoverished Vietnamese women, then why don't you campaign for Vietnamese women to be brought over to USA in droves?

How about getting rid of the communist experiment that failed every country it was imposed upon ?

But then again I can sort of see that falling into another popular trope that involves perverted White male expats and their submissive Asian mail order brides.

Yeah...That would fall under the concept of CONSENTING ADULTS.

 

[pkd]

The thread has literally turned into holier than thou discussion.

The issue here is not about law and crime but the immorality of buying human beings.

FBI — Latest Crime Stats Released
1,165,383 violent crimes
US murder rate sees sharp increase in 2015 - BBC News
I can understand your frustration but no Society is immune dear.

 

[gambit]

The thread has literally turned into holier than thou discussion.

FBI — Latest Crime Stats Released
US murder rate sees sharp increase in 2015 - BBC News
I can understand your frustration but no Society is immune dear.

Yeah...The US is such a terrible place. Wonder why so many want to come here.

 

[pkd]

Yeah...The US is such a terrible place. Wonder why so many want to come here.

Please don't spin around, i quoted US specifically because of the fact that even the most advanced societies are not immune of the immorality you are referring to.
And you cannt win an argument by using the logic my shit stinks lesser than thou

 

[gambit]

Please don't spin around, i quoted US specifically because of the fact that even the most advanced societies are not immune of the immorality you are referring to.
And you cannt win an argument by using the logic my shit stinks less than thou

Yeah...American men paid Mexican men to kidnap Colombian women for wives.

 

[pkd]

Yeah...American men paid Mexican men to kidnap Colombian women for wives.

Again your line of reasoning
"my shit stinks lesser than thou"
"Lesser immorality" still counted as immorality

 

[Wolfwind]

Actually...YOU are.

Excuse me, but no, you seemed to be tripping up over a simple question. If you don't want people to think you are confusing yourself then you need to answer succinctly and precisely, which you didn't do.

As a libertarian -- No.

Thank you. In the future please stop waffling and going on tangents that are completely and utterly irrelevant.

I thought that was already clear. But the comparison is still inapplicable since there is no 3rd party involved.

Completely and totally irrelevant since the paradigm being discussed is one that surrounds distribution and consumption. You are confused.

Which part of CONSENTING ADULTS do you not understand ?

Let me guess, as a Chinese, you believe abduction falls under the concept of 'consenting adults' ?

I don't think you should make any guesses because it seems your judgement is really clouded. Like I said, if you want to talk about consent then the legal burden is on the kidnapper. Is that clear?

Really...??? Is abduction culturally unique ? Which part of my background disqualified me from pointing out a wrong ? Or are you saying that being Chinese, you are excused from even the most basic standards of human decency ?

Well you're not Chinese or Vietnamese by ethnicity, culture, heritage or identity. So it's just really quite bewildering as to why an American appears in a thread that has nothing to do with them, and pompously dictates for others that his views are the "right" one. If you were genuinely concerned about the welfare of Southeast Asian women then why don't you campaign to have them relocated to the USA? Maybe USA can increase taxes to house and feed them too. How about that?

That said, I noticed that your English isn't very good, and it might not be your first language. Thus I think it's quite possible you're not even a WASP American.

How about getting rid of the communist experiment that failed every country it was imposed upon ?

Vietnam and China, both communist by name, are seeing substantial growth in their economies. I think you're not very knowledgable on Asian politics, economy, society and culture. Both countries perform exceptionally well on academic olympiads.

Yeah...That would fall under the concept of CONSENTING ADULTS.

Let me rephrase it in question form since you seem to be completely muddled up:
What has consenting adults got to do with the punishment between a distributor or a consumer? Even if the "product" being distributed is a human, it doesn't make a difference. In any case, in any example, the kidnapper and distributor would be more severely punished or "put to justice". Let's not go into tangents about murder and slave labour or something like that, because that's a different crime altogether. This is why I think you might be getting confused, you seem to be very foggy minded.

 

[gambit]

Excuse me, but no, you seemed to be tripping up over a simple question. If you don't want people to think you are confusing yourself then you need to answer succinctly and precisely, which you didn't do.

Thank you. In the future please stop waffling and going on tangents that are completely and utterly irrelevant.

Waffling ? Here is what I said back in post 67: 'As a libertarian -- No.'

Here is the word 'succintly':

Succinctly - definition of succinctly by The Free Dictionary

So when I said 'As a libertarian -- No.' most people would IMMEDIATELY understand my position.

Well you're not Chinese or Vietnamese by ethnicity, culture, heritage or identity. So it's just really quite bewildering as to why an American appears in a thread that has nothing to do with them, and pompously dictates for others that his views are the "right" one.

So what you are saying is that non-Asians have no business talking about Asian issues, even when it is patently immoral like kidnapping, selling, and buying human beings. Do you have any ideas how racist that sounds ?

By the way, I am Vietnamese, by birth and by 12 yrs of childhood in South Viet Nam. So by your racist criteria, I am eminently qualified to debate this subject.

If you were genuinely concerned about the welfare of Southeast Asian women then why don't you campaign to have them relocated to the USA? Maybe USA can increase taxes to house and feed them too. How about that?

So if my house is burglarized, the solution is to move ?

Better yet...

Say you and I noticed a blighted neighborhood. Not only that, whatever residents remains lives in fear. They are either armed or cowed into paying thugs not to do them harm.

So...Instead of YOU joining me in criticizing the local government to do something, anything, to improve the neighborhood, your solution is for ME to expend my own resources to relocate the people.

Your fellow Chinese may buy that silly argument but for those of us with average intelligence -- do not. Your argument is so manifestly stupid that it does not deserve rebuttal but ridicule.

To you and your fellow Chinese, the burden is upon the victims -- the Vietnamese women -- to remove themselves from the environment and situations, not that the Chinese men who advertised and offered money for criminals to supply them with women have any moral burden at all.

Like I said before...Anything, including twisting common human decency, to minimize the moral guilt of the Chinese men who bought women and keep them in lives of virtual slavery.

 

[Wolfwind]

Waffling ? Here is what I said back in post 67: 'As a libertarian -- No.'

Here is the word 'succintly':


So when I said 'As a libertarian -- No.' most people would IMMEDIATELY understand my position.


So what you are saying is that non-Asians have no business talking about Asian issues, even when it is patently immoral like kidnapping, selling, and buying human beings. Do you have any ideas how racist that sounds ?

By the way, I am Vietnamese, by birth and by 12 yrs of childhood in South Viet Nam. So by your racist criteria, I am eminently qualified to debate this subject.


So if my house is burglarized, the solution is to move ?

Better yet...

Say you and I noticed a blighted neighborhood. Not only that, whatever residents remains lives in fear. They are either armed or cowed into paying thugs not to do them harm.

So...Instead of YOU joining me in criticizing the local government to do something, anything, to improve the neighborhood, your solution is for ME to expend my own resources to relocate the people.

Your fellow Chinese may buy that silly argument but for those of us with average intelligence -- do not. Your argument is so manifestly stupid that it does not deserve rebuttal but ridicule.

To you and your fellow Chinese, the burden is upon the victims -- the Vietnamese women -- to remove themselves from the environment and situations, not that the Chinese men who advertised and offered money for criminals to supply them with women have any moral burden at all.

Like I said before...Anything, including twisting common human decency, to minimize the moral guilt of the Chinese men who bought women and keep them in lives of virtual slavery.

This is getting too wordy so I'm just going to focus on the main points.

1. I don't care if that was exclusionary because if you're not Chinese or Vietnamese (by ethnicity, heritage, culture identity etc) then it's really not your place to be posting on an issue that doesn't even concern you, especially by taking sides. It just comes off as a gross display of selfish power. Like it's obnoxious to try to impose your own views when you're not even Chinese or Vietnamese, without even letting either groups share their opinions, since those are the people that are involved. If you were not Chinese / Vietnamese you can still post your views but don't act like you're dictating from a position of authority. And then if you really cared about the welfare of Vietnamese women then why aren't you actually helping or doing anything about it? It just comes across as if you don't really care, but just took it as an opportunity to spew out anti-Chinese vitriol.

2. I don't know if you missed it, but I will repost it again. The legal burden here is on the kidnappers, whatever their ethnicity or nationality is.