Huge Turkish and HTS casualties in failed attack

[OldTwilight]

Well , Turks aren't strong enough to carry their neo-ottoman dream .... They should accept this

 

[Yankee-stani]

Well , Turks aren't strong enough to carry their neo-ottoman dream .... They should accept this

Iran should also be careful and learn from Turkish error's if you push neighboring countries to your orbit there will be resistence also

 

[OldTwilight]

Iran should also be careful and learn from Turkish error's if you push neighboring countries to your orbit there will be resistence also

Well , in 2011 , when this start , most of our strategist guessed the real plan is this :
Sanction Iran
Finish Syria
Finish Hezbollah
Then invade Iran


We could not do a thing about sanction. But we decided to not let Assad falls at any cost .... So we were forced into reaction in first place ..... But turkey act on her own

 

[Yankee-stani]

Well , in 2011 , when this start , most of our strategist guessed the real plan is this :
Sanction Iran
Finish Syria
Finish Hezbollah
Then invade Iran


We could not do a thing about sanction. But we decided to not let Assad falls at any cost .... So we were forced into reaction in first place ..... But turkey act on her own

For Iran I could understand yall wanted to keep the "Cresent" region to yourselves and losing it would weaken Tehran's regional ambitions but seeing the political unrest in Lebanon in the last few months Iran is gotta be careful otherwise you will wound up like Turkey even more isolated

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

Neither US nor Russia is god, Afghans proved these Kuffar can be defeated. Dignity and Self-respect is worth it.

We are all behind Turks. Kick out these Kuffar invaders, PKK terrorists, and bring justice for Syrians.

Are you ok with Israel-Turkey friendship? (proven when seeing their trade growing every year). Are you ok with Israeli embassy and consulate and recognition by turkey? Are you ok with Turkey serving US goals by the US-proxy named Nato?

 

[That Guy]

Russia won't and can't do a thing to stop Turkey? They seem to be doing a pretty good job of exactly that right now. Turkey, by itself, is no match for Russia alone.

Except, I'm of the opinion that this was likely a mistake on Russia's part.

Turkish soldiers are embedded with local anti-Assad militias. The russians probably bombed their site mistakenly.

Even if they didn't, Turkey likely have some sort of retaliation in mind.

Turkey was willing to shoot down a russian fighter, what makes you think turkey won't retaliate here?

Nato can support , but if Turkey is wise , she would try to solve the p

This American want to encourage Turkey to start a war for nothing and just ruin both Russia and Turkey in process

The Israelis have same agenda as well

Blaming the americans and Israelis isn't gonna solve anything, nor is it the truth.

Turkey and Russia have ALWAYS been rivals. I've said it before, the warming of relations was nothing more than a temporary thing, and extremely fragile.

they can bomb Turkish bases in Syria??

Russia won't bomb turkish bases in syria, so long as turkey sticks to bombing the syrian positions solely.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

The problem is that you guys are behind them while calling for war ... In fact you want the turks do the fighting while you have your normal life ...

We are busy dealing with your government's proxies in Afghanistan and your Indian Kuffar friends.

It is the same battle, good and evil, playing out in different theaters.

Whether Libya, Turkey, Syria, Pakistan/Kashmir, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Azerbaijan, Cyprus, etc.

Well , Turks aren't strong enough to carry their neo-ottoman dream .... They should accept this

This a new Turkey, a modern unified nation which is above racial, sectarian, and ideological differences. No one wants Ottoman empire back, but why not learn from the great Muslim state which ruled half of Europe for 500 years?

 

[OldTwilight]

We are busy dealing with your government's proxies in Afghanistan and your Indian Kuffar friends.

It is the same battle, good and evil, playing out in different theaters.

Whether Libya, Turkey, Syria, Pakistan/Kashmir, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Azerbaijan, Cyprus, etc.



This a new Turkey, a modern unified nation which is above racial, sectarian, and ideological differences. No one wants Ottoman empire back, but why not learn from the great Muslim state which ruled half of Europe for 500 years?

Well , You can claim many things but those are your claims , nothing more ....

Why you Pakis obssesed with Ottoman while you were govern by Mughul empire and Safavid empire in same period of time !?

Both of them were better culturally than brother killing Ottoman ....

For Iran I could understand yall wanted to keep the "Cresent" region to yourselves and losing it would weaken Tehran's regional ambitions but seeing the political unrest in Lebanon in the last few months Iran is gotta be careful otherwise you will wound up like Turkey even more isolated

There is no Crescent ... This is just some word created by Arab monarch to scare their naive people

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Are you ok with Israel-Turkey friendship? (proven when seeing their trade growing every year). Are you ok with Israeli embassy and consulate and recognition by turkey?

No to both.

Are you ok with Turkey serving US goals by the US-proxy named Nato?

They have differences with NATO, it is not the same relationship which Turkey had previously like in 90s. Part of the reason is Turkey supported Iran against US pressure. Even Pakistan had done the same, we backed Iran during Saddam's invasion and denied our forces to interfere in Yemen.

However, Assad has gone too far and this slaughter must be put to an end.

 

[maithil]

Number of fatalities has climbed to 79 now on twitter. Terrible for Turkish forces.

 

[OldTwilight]

For the people who want Turkish army directly attack Russians :

Turkey northren cities are in range of Russian Fighter ( Su 30 , Su 34 ) and bombers ... ....

This mean if Turkey really start war , it has to divide its army to protect northren region of its country , and directly fight in Syria ... while they have some sworn enemy in meditrania and they already in dispute with Egypt over Gas field and Lybia ...

how could turkey put herself in this kind of position in just some years !?

Even our IR is not that careless ....

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Well , You can claim many things but those are your claims , nothing more ....

Why you Pakis obssesed with Ottoman while you were govern by Mughul empire and Safavid empire in same period of time !?

Both of them were better culturally than brother killing Ottoman ....



There is no Crescent ... This is just some word created by Arab monarch to scare their naive people

Point one is please refrain from using derogatory word **** to refer to Pakistanis. Please change your post.

Our historical reality is different from Iran, whereas for you Safavi were a great empire, but Ottoman and Mughals were always allies and against Safavis. Yet that is ancient history, and not very applicable to modern times.

Our ties with Turks are based on religious historical identities, which we both share. For every Turkish poet or scholar, there were similar ones in Pakistan advocating the same ideas. For Yunus Emre, Jalaluddin Rumi, we had Waris Shah, Khushal Khan, Bulleh Shah, Mirza Ghalib. For Bediuzzaman Said Nursi and Mehmet Akif Ersoy, we had Allama Muhammad Iqbal.

We have the same mindset.

 

[OldTwilight]

Point one is please refrain from using derogatory word **** to refer to Pakistanis. Please change your post.

Our historical reality is different from Iran, whereas for you Safavi were a great empire, but Ottoman and Mughals were always allies and against Safavis. Yet that is ancient history, and not very applicable to modern times.

Our ties with Turks are based on religious historical identities, which we both share. For every Turkish poet or scholar, there were similar ones in Pakistan advocating the same ideas. For Yunus Emre, Jalaluddin Rumi, we had Waris Shah, Khushal Khan, Bulleh Shah, Mirza Ghalib. For Bediuzzaman Said Nursi and Mehmet Akif Ersoy, we had Allama Muhammad Iqbal.

We have the same mindset.

actually you don't know your own history ... this was shah tahmasp Safavid who while in fight with strongest Ottoman Sultan , send troops to reclaim India for Mughuls empire ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahmasp_I#Royal_refugees:_Bayezid_and_Humayun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahmasp_I#Royal_refugees:_Bayezid_and_Humayun

the truth should be told , from my perspective Pakistan is offspring of Indian and Iranian culture but because you need some identity to diffrenctiate yourself from Iran and India then you claims some un know mythical link with ottoman and deny your root from Iran and India ...

this is just a political lies that you Pakistanis already believed it ....

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

the truth should be told , from my perspective Pakistan is offspring of Indian and Iranian culture

This is why Iranians will never understand Pakistanis. You simply are incapable of it, and the same goes for Gulf Arabs.

You are on PDF, there is no excuse not to know about Pakistan's ancient, medieval, and recent history. We have a dedicated subforum for it.

It has made your policy towards Pakistan toxic, when we were your closest Sunni ally for decades. It is a shame that now we have to look at a hostile regime in Tehran.

As far as with Safavis, we had periods of war and peace both. It was never black and white, but Mughal ties with the Ottomans were always close. All three empires were Turkic though.

 

[OldTwilight]

This is why Iranians will never understand Pakistanis. You simply are incapable of it, and the same goes for Gulf Arabs.

You are on PDF, there is no excuse not to know about Pakistan's ancient, medieval, and recent history. We have a dedicated subforum for it.

It has made your policy towards Pakistan toxic, when we were your closest Sunni ally for decades. It is a shame that now we have to look at a hostile regime in Tehran.

As far as with Safavis, we had periods of war and peace both. It was never black and white, but Mughal ties with the Ottomans were always close. All three empires were Turkic though.

well , I know your history in some extend , I know The Ghazanavid , Timurid , and other turkish rules effect on Pakistan , but you guys are claiming some strong ties with Ottoman while you have not this kind of ties with them ....

hell you have more ties with centeral asia than Anatolian Turks ....

your obsession is false , and you are in wrong path ....

and don't act like we are in debt of Pakistan ... we did directly help you in your war with India but never you dared to help us back ....

Iran played an important role in the Indo-Pakistani war of 1965, providing Pakistan with nurses, medical supplies, and a gift of 5,000 tons of petroleum. Iran also indicated that it was considering an embargo on oil supplies to India for the duration of the fighting.[1] The Indian government believed that Iran had blatantly favored Pakistan.[1] After the suspension of United States military aid to Pakistan, Iran was reported to have purchased ninety Sabre jet fighter planes from West Germany, and to have sent them on to Pakistan.[1]

Iran again played a vital role in Pakistan's 1971 conflict with India, this time supplying military equipment as well as diplomatic support against India. The Shah described the Indian attack as aggression and interference in Pakistan's domestic affairs;[16] in an interview with a Parisian newspaper he openly acknowledged that "We are one hundred percent behind Pakistan".[16] Iranian Prime Minister Amir-Abbas Hoveida followed suit, saying that "Pakistan has been subjected to violence and force."[16] The Iranian leadership repeatedly expressed its opposition to the dismemberment of Pakistan, fearing it would adversely affect the domestic stability and security of Iran[16] by encouraging Kurdish separatists to rise up against the Iranian government.[16] In the same vein, Iran attempted to justify its supplying arms to Pakistan on the grounds that, in its desperation, Pakistan might fall into the Chinese lap.[16] On the other hand, Iran changed its foreign priorities after making a move to maintain good relations with India.

The breakup of Pakistan in December 1971 convinced Iran that extraordinary effort was needed to protect the stability and territorial integrity of its eastern flank. With the emergence of Bangladesh as a separate State, the "Two-nations theory" received a severe blow and questions arose in the Iranian establishment as to whether the residual western part of Pakistan could hold together and remain a single country.[17] Events of this period caused significant perceptional changes in Tehran regarding Pakistan.

When widespread armed insurgency broke out in Pakistan's Balochistan Province in 1973, Iran, fearing the insurgency might spill over into its own Balochistan Province, offered large-scale support.[18] The Iranians provided Pakistan with military hardware (including thirty Huey cobra attack helicopters), intelligence sharing, and $200 million in aid.[19]

n addition to military aid, the Shah of Iran offered considerable developmental aid to Pakistan, including oil and gas on preferential terms.[17] Pakistan was a developing country and small power, while Iran, in the 1960-70s, had the world's fifth largest military and a strong industrial base, and was the clear, undisputed regional superpower.[16][20] However, Iran's total dependence on the United States at that time for its economic development and military build-up had won it the hostility of Arab world.[16] Tensions arose in 1974, when Mohammad Reza Pahlavi refused to attend the Islamic Conference in Lahore because Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi had been invited to it, despite the known hostility between the two.[16] In 1976, Iran again played a vital and influential role by facilitating a rapprochement between Pakistan and Afghanistan.[1]


The 1979 Iranian Revolution transformed Pakistan and Iran into rivals instead of partners.[21] Bhutto's ouster was followed a half year later by the Iranian Revolution and overthrow of the Shah of Iran. Iran's new Supreme Leader, the Ayatollah Khomeini, withdrew the country from CENTO and ended its association with the United States.[1] The religiously influenced military government of Zia-ul-Haq and the Islamic Revolution in Iran suited one another well, and as such there was no diplomatic and political cleavage between them.[1] In 1979, Pakistan was one of the first countries in the world to recognize the revolutionary regime in Iran. Responding swiftly to this revolutionary change, Foreign Minister of Pakistan Agha Shahi immediately undertook a state visit to Tehran, meeting with his Iranian counterpart Karim Sanjabi on 10 March 1979.[1] Both expressed confidence that Iran and Pakistan were going to march together to a brighter future.[1] The next day, Agha Shahi held talks with the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, in which developments in the region were discussed.[1] On 11 April 1979, Zia famously declared that "Khomeini is a symbol of Islamic insurgence".[1] Reciprocating President Zia's sentiments, Imam Khomeini, in his letter, called for Muslim unity.[1] He declared: "Ties with Pakistan are based on Islam."[1] By 1981, however, Pakistan, under Zia-ul-Haq, had once again formed close ties with the United States, a position it has remained in since.[1]


After the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, the rivalry between Iran and Pakistan intensified.[25] After 1989, both state's policies in Afghanistan became even more divergent as Pakistan, under Benazir Bhutto, explicitly supported Taliban forces in Afghanistan.[26] This resulted in a major breach, with Iran becoming closer to India.[26] Pakistan's support for the Sunni Taliban organization in Afghanistan became a problem for Shia Iran which opposed a Taliban-controlled Afghanistan.[3] The Pakistani backed Taliban fought the Iranian backed Northern Alliance in Afghanistan and gained control of 90 percent of that country.[25] As noted by a Pakistani foreign service officer, it was difficult to maintain good relations with Israel, Saudi Arabia, the United States, and Iran at the same time, given Iran's long history of rivalry with these states.[26] In 1995 Bhutto paid a lengthy state visit to Iran, which greatly relaxed relations. At a public meeting she spoke highly of Iran and Iranian society.[27] However, increasing activity by Shia militants in Pakistan strained relations further.[15] This was followed by the Taliban's capture of the city of Mazar-i-Sharif in 1998, in which thousands of Shias were massacred, according to Amnesty International.[15] The most serious breach in relations came in 1998, after Iran accused Taliban Afghanistan of taking 11 Iranian diplomats, 35 Iranian truck drivers and an Iranian journalist hostage, and later killing them all.[15] Iran massed over 300,000 troops on the Afghan border and threatened to attack the Taliban government, which it had never recognized.[15] This strained relations with Pakistan, as the Taliban were seen as Pakistan's key allies.[15] In May 1998, Iran criticized Pakistan for its nuclear testing in the Chagai region, and held Pakistan accountable for global "atomic proliferation".[28] New Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif acknowledged his country's nuclear capability on 7 September 1997.[29]

In 1995, Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto paid a state visit to Iran to lay the groundwork for a memorandum on energy, and begin work on an Energy security agreement between the two countries. This was followed by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's visit to Tehran for the 8th OIC Summit Conference on 9–11 December 1997. While there Sharif held talks with President Khatami, with a view to improving bilateral relations, as well as finding a solution to the Afghan crisis.[30]

Chief Executive General Pervez Musharraf paid a two-day visit to Tehran on 8–9 December 1999. This was his first visit to Iran (and third international trip) since his military coup d'état of 12 October 1999 and subsequent seizure of power in Pakistan. In Iran, Musharraf held talks with Iranian President Mohammad Khatami[31] and with the Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei.[32] This visit was arranged[33] to allow Musharraf to explain the reasons for his takeover in Pakistan.[34]

The meetings included discussions on the situation in Afghanistan, which were intended to lead both countries to "coordinate the policies of our two countries for encouraging the peace process through reconciliation and dialogue among the Afghan parties".[35][36]

In 1998 Iran accused Pakistani troops of war crimes at Bamiyan in Afghanistan and claimed that Pakistani warplanes had, in support of the Taliban, bombarded Afghanistan's last Shia stronghold.[37][38]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Pakistan_relations


as you can read in above link , our help is direct and fair but Pakistan activly had hand in killing Shia and act against Iran ... while your claims about Iran arming shia group is biased and un proven ....